Hello,
My student is interested in attending a UK university. The high school he is considering attending does not offer any AP courses, but does have an agreement with the local state college and local community college. The UK schools mention IB and AP coursework. Does anyone know if and how he’d be competitive for UK college without AP tests?
Thank you.
Possibly at St. Andrews.
And many English unis would consider him after he has a year of college/CC with a high enough GPA.
Also, many English unis have some pre-uni-year program that he could try for.
Why the UK?
There’s also a UK subforum under “International Students” that has a ton of helpful threads. I’m not sure you/he know what uni is like over there . . . .
If your child takes dual enrollment classes at the 100 level it’s work too - she’s need A’s (depending on universities, B’s) that’d be equivalent to Ap/IB.
What subject is he interested in studying?
Contact individual universities and ask them, as it will differ from one to the next. Which unis is he interested in?
Thank you all for your responses. My 14-year old is an anglophile and wishes to study physical sciences–specific subject TBD. He would love Oxbridge, but the specific colleges will likely be based on GPA and test scores in several years. I am just trying to ensure maximum flexibility without AP or IB coursework.
Strictly speaking, for the UK (or other programs such as Triity Dublin or in the Netherlands) only dual enrollment grades will matter, HS GPA won’t. Subject test scores will matter to a certain extent. Without AP/IB, a good battery of subject tests (Math 2, Physics, Chemistry, English) would be expected in addition to the dual enrollment classes.
Also, don’t forget Canada.
Keep in mind that unless Oxbridge changes their policy from now till he applies, he can only apply to the constituent colleges within one of the two Oxbridge Universities, not both.
Also, UK undergrads take the vast majority/nearly all of their classes in their field so a UK Bachelors degree is closer in structure to a US Masters than a US Bachelors degree.
This means if he decides to change majors while in the middle of one major, he’d have to reapply and start from scratch/nearly from scratch in the second major. Also, most UK schools do not accept transfer credits from other universities, especially foreign ones like the US so even if he had US college credits from DE, he’d have to put in the requisite 3-4 years(depending on program) for that UK Bachelor’s.
IMO, being an Anglophile isn’t a compelling enough reason to take in an educational system that is pretty different and geared towards matriculants from a British (not American) system and has ties to British (not American) industry.
Study-abroad exists, after all.
There are lots of Anglophiles in the world. We watch Masterpiece Theater, read and re-read biographies of Winston Churchill, and join “Jane Austen Fan Clubs” where we discuss the various rip-off’s and homages to Pride and Prejudice and Emma which are published every year.
He’ll need a better reason to pursue this path. The few kids I know who have done it- had a LOT of parental money backing them. (I have no idea about your resources, obviously). It’s tempting to look at sticker price (the pound is down right now) and decide that this is an affordable way to get a first class education-- but most American kids don’t end up at one of the first class U’s- they end up at a tier down (or two tiers down) and by the time you’ve paid for little junior to come home for grandma’s 80th birthday and grandpa’s funeral plus all the regularly scheduled holiday visits-- well, it adds up.
And then you’re interviewing for jobs with American companies asking why you went to a second tier U in the UK…
Agree to a point, but UK degrees, especially those from Oxbridge and its UK academic peers actually travel very well internationally…including here in the US from what I’ve observed in past workplaces and friends who have pursued UK or other foreign university educations*.
Neither HS classmate who attended McGill in Canada or National Taiwan University had issues getting hired for comparable jobs with peers who attended elite/respectable US universities…including the Ivies. There were also plenty of Oxbridge and other UK university graduates I know of who are gainfully employed in large financial, corporate, and tech firms in the Boston/NYC and West Coast areas.
He can sit AP tests without the school offering APs. If he was truly interested in the UK IB or APs would have been in the plan already. Get him googling that. You think he is an Ivy candatiate? Do you have any testing scores?
@cobrat, outside of various specific disciplines (Warwick in math and business or Edinburgh in CS, for instance), the only UK academic peers to Oxbridge are really LSE in the social sciences and Imperial in STEM. I’d consider them Ivy-level.
And while UCL/KCL/Warwick/Edinburgh/St. Andrew’s/Durham may be comparable to UMich/UNC/NYU/UT-Austin/W&M/UCSD, they’re generally as well known in the US as those American publics I listed are in the UK. That is, not very (outside of academia and global industries)*. Go below that tier and even if they are very respected in the UK in a particular field, they would more likely than not draw blank stares in the US.
- For some reason, NYU has an outsized reputation outside the US.
Some, but not all, UK universities will accept SAT2s in lieu of APs. It includes Oxford, but not Cambridge:
Worth reading.
As @Sybylla noted, you can sit the AP test w/out taking a class called “AP”- it’s the exam score that matters. As @MYOS1634 pointed out, GPA is a relative non-issue- even the unis that ask for it (a minority) have (by US standards) very low requirements.
Every course at every UK uni puts detailed information online, include the typical admissions requirement (scores needed), any required subjects, and a pretty full curriculum for what you study in that course, year by year.
If your son is looking at a science based course at a top-tier UK uni, the equivalent of Calc BC, along with two of physics, chem & bio will be expected. The scores matter beyond simply being admitted: the professors will assume that those subjects have been mastered and will go straight on to the next level.
Unless your son develops a clear, strong passion for a specific science, Cambridge’s Natural Science is going to be a better bet, as there are more choices.
As some of the other posters have noted, fair enough to be exploring what is required, but if this is your first run at the college process, it is a really long journey- expect a lot of twists and turns.
Finally, a suggestion: UK universities are much, much more hands off with students. They are expected to navigate the system pretty independently, or by helping each other. If he is truly interested in going to the UK, help him develop those muscles by asking him to do take the lead and do the research. It is all available on line- in great detail- and it is a realistic goal to set him.
Essentially an English college is Sophomore- Senior years of a US college. You go directly into your major. That is why they want AP or IB courses, or mastery shown by SAT subject tests, which substitute for the freshman year.
^ Yep. At the very tippy-top, English unis are more like junior-senior years + what’s covered at the Master’s level at most colleges here.
Below the top tier, yes, it’s more like soph-senior years in an American college, but concentrating on only one subject (or only the subjects in your course, at least). The English have 2 years of college after HS where they go through the intro courses that college freshmen here would take.
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The English have 2 years of college after HS where they go through the intro courses that college freshmen here would take.<<<<<<<<<
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This is a bit misleading, you can stay in school after 16 and do A levels (probably this is how the majority do it), but some districts might have 16 plus in 6th form college doing A levels or IB, some colleges (like CC/DE) also are for the vocational type post 16 crowd who leave school at 16 after O levels and go into hairdressing or catering or mechanics, which also might offer A levels for a mix of young and mature students. but like here there seems to be some sorts of offerings that seem vocational but are oversold on the academics that seem to feed some kids into universities. There is regional nuance.
@Sybylla, OK, to be comprehensive, the English have a wide (and wild) variety of schools (mostly called “colleges”) after HS that serve up various types of education, but for those who are going on to uni, they would be studying subjects at the level that American freshmen/CC students would study.
In any case, English unis assume that their students are already at a certain level when they enter.
The Scottish system is more like Canada/the US (and 4 year) but still is less flexible than American colleges and is similar to the English in that grades tend to ride on tests at the end.