Parents are hung up on loans, advice? [LONG]

Paying for College
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<p>Make a list of those colleges that interest you and some local schools that may be affordable and tend to give merit money to local kids who do well at school. Include what local state an community colleges you have as well and see how it works out.</p>

<p>The FAFSA that you file will be for your 2012 income and expenses, so if your family is paying a lot those bills, see if they can be gathered together and you can list them and copy them. You are unlikely to get dollar for dollar consideration for them, but whatever you get may help.</p>

<p>Getting a job and stashing what you can is important because getting grants is not a given, and it appears as though the $5500 in loans that you can take will not meet your costs. You may have to go to school part time and take longer to get through.</p>

<p>It is true that getting a teaching job in some areas is very difficult. Ask around your area an find out what the situation is, and where a lot of the teachers go to college. Where I lived in the midwest, it was basically the old teacher’s colleges that had the majority of its alum in teaching jobs. </p>

<p>You may not find a teaching job at a public school right away but something at the private ones may open up. They don’t pay anywhere as much most of the time but you can get expereince and some may even give you help towards completing your certification. You can work and get that certification if it takes more than four years for you to get it in your state. Find out the best ways to get inot a teaching job in your area. In some areas, you have to have that masters, in some areas, it’s better to stop short before you get the masters because they don’t have to pay you as much and they do take that into consideration. Having a certification but not your master’s is what they like in some areas. Also a focus on math and sciences usually gives you a leg up. There are language arts and social studies teachers lined up around the bend. </p>

<p>You may get some money at some places that may surprise you. Local Catholic or private schools sometime come up with enough so that it is less to go there than to the cc. My son really wanted to go away for social reasons, but he’s having a tough time cracking the social networks at an OOS public and a lot of kids who are commuting locally are really enjoying themselves at some of the colleges here, that were not considerd such hot picks when they were in high school. And they are joined by a lot of their classmates transferring back. The same with some comm college scenes. It’s not the way a lot of kids imagine things. So keep your mind and optins open.</p>

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<p>Mmm. Thank you for your advice.</p>

<p>I definitely will be doing a lot of brainstorming/reflecting tonight. I’m pretty tired/frustrated right now, so that’s not helping anything.</p>

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<p>My point was not about getting more aid once you go to the university, but that usually it is cheaper to study for two years at a local CC that you can commute to than it would be to study for those first two years at a 4-year institution (especially if you cannot commute easily, and have added expenses for housing). </p>

<p>If you know that you will be transferring, and have a good idea of which public U you would target for transfer, the advisors at your local CC should be able to tell you what classes are best to take in order to increase your chances of graduating from that 4-year place in only two more years.</p>

<p>Happykid graduated from our local CC last May. Tuition and fees were roughly $5,000 each year. At her in-state public U, tuition and fees are roughly $9,000 each year. In other words, nearly twice as much. She also has to pay rent and utilities (about $650/mo.). I consider meals, personal expenses, books, materials, etc. to be pretty much a wash because she would have had them at home. By staying here for two years, our overall savings would be roughly $10,000 for each year. Actually they were more because she had a tuition and fees scholarship at her CC that covered 60 of the 64 credits needed to complete her degree program. What we saved in those first two years because of the scholarship will cover all of her tuition for this year.</p>

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<p>—“All CC’s in my state have transfer programs with the state schools/flagship but not for secondary education and not a specified one for history.”—</p>

<p>This statement doesn’t make much sense. You mean there are not basic liberal arts courses offered by cc’s in your state that credit for will transfer to colleges and universities in your state? As an education major and certainly as a history major you will be required to take a fairly wide variety of one- and two-hundred level introductory courses, and I don’t see how none of them will transfer to four year colleges. That would defeat the purpose of even having a cc. I don’t see how, if you took, say, a freshman-level intro to American history class at cc that the credit would not transfer to four-year public universities in your state and even quite a few other states and a lot of private colleges, too. </p>

<p>Also, I don’t see where getting an AA degree can benefit you if you are getting education and history degrees. Only take classes that can be applied to the education and history degree and will be accepted by the four-year college you want to transfer to after you have taken at the cc. An AA degree’s requirements would likely include some classes that won’t transfer to/or be required for your education and history degrees at the four-year college, so it is a waste of money to take them. </p>

<p>Your cc charges $350+ per credit hour? That is what thirty credits in one year would come out to if your cc really costs $11,000 per year. Many four year flagships don’t charge nearly that much for in-state students. Is that for tuition/fees alone?</p>

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<p>$11,000 is what it came out to including everything (books, etc). Our state system is outrageous, all of the 4-year ones cost nearly $25,000/yr if you include room and board. Since I can waive the health insurance, that would be 1k less a year.</p>

<p>And they do have basic liberal arts classes, that was a dumb oversight on my part.</p>

<p>Let me see…the CC charges $176 per credit hour for state residents (fall 2012), so just 30 credits, not including any fees or books or anything, is $5,280. It could be worse.</p>

<p>Also, if I were to complete my AA, i’d get a tuition waiver and I could transfer all of my credits. If I transferred gen eds I think I can transfer 32 with the possibility of a 1/3rd tuition waiver. It would still save money, but not much. The tuition waiver, if they’re going by the in-state tuition fee, would be $1400 a year. (Yeah, I know the stupid tuition thing isn’t really relevant, but it’s worth nothing that the actual tuition is a flash in the pan as far as cost goes.)</p>

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<p>What state are you in? For example, I’m in NY and a Social Studies Education degree is what you should be looking at, and in-state not only for cost but because your state school will make sure you meet all of the requirements for initial certification to teach. A double major in SS Ed and history is doable, but it’s sometimes better to do Social Studies Ed and instead of a double major use your electives for Economics, Anthropology, Sociology, Geography, Government and other classes that are incorporated into the Social Studies curriculum-- Social Studies is more then just teaching history. As to thinking about Elementary Education, unfortunately Elementary Ed jobs are just as difficult to get as SS jobs. Many people certified in SS and Elementary Ed are looking for jobs. Hopefully this situation will improve as the economy does. Also, in NY if your undergraduate degree is in SS Education, you can get your Master’s in either Education or your subject area. Getting your Master’s in history can be about 30 semester hours, whereas many MAT programs we’re talking 45 or more credit hours-- more money, more time. You can also get your Masters in Special Education and certified in ESL (English as a Second Language) which will help with getting hired, though at first you may be teaching ESL or Special Ed, but it will get you in the door if a SS job opens up. And like some one noted, if you’re hired many school districts will pay for those Graduate courses. If you’re not in NY, call your state Education Department and they should send you all of the information you need to be certified to teach in your state of choice.</p>

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<p>Does that CC only charge per credit hour? Some colleges will charge that way until you hit full time status and then the charge stops, In other words, enrolled full time students pay less than those who are just taking a loose class or two. Also if you apply to be a matriculating student, the charges can differ. So it is at our local state school.</p>

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<p>My wife is a teacher in San Francisco (very high cost of living) and the starting salary for elementary school teacher is only $44k. I think for high school its around $55k, but specific science ones get additional money. Wife went to a state university, she said through mentoring other students, she realized that her state education was horrible. But she got a lot from mentors etc. She has a liberal arts degree, and just a credential. The school was horrible and didn’t have like the extra semester at the time in the program that would have given her a masters. But I will say this people are taking very low paying jobs as long term substitute teachers in hopes of getting a full time job. The teacher job market is horrible with the exception of Science and Special Ed teachers. Well atleast in CA, unless you want to teach in bad neighborhoods. But those hard schools usually lead people to stop teaching. My wife worked in one for two years and she cried after school pretty often, at one point a student threw a desk at her and this was in first grade.</p>

<p>Then beyond that you usually have to get a clear credential, which is done through paperwork while teaching. My wife coached a couple people for that as well. Our school district paid for it, wife got a small stipend. All this work and horrible pay, just to let you know what to look forward too.</p>

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<p>"My mother’s rationalization is that “every field [except nursing and engineering] is hurting as far as jobs go, so it doesn’t really matter what you end up doing.”</p>

<p>My DD finished her nursing degree (and passed the RN licensing exam) in December 2011. It took her four months to find a job and the job is in a rural community two hours from a decent size city. Many of her classmates are still unemployed after 10 months. When she was interviewing at hospitals she kept hearing that retired nurses are returning to the field because of the recession and they are being hired over the new graduates because they have experience; budgeting issues over the uncertainty of Obamacare also cited as a reason for reduced hiring. I am very grateful that my daughter was able to find something, as is she, even if the location is not her first pick.</p>

<p>In other words, there is no sure bet when it comes to a career field, pass this on to your mother.</p>

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<p>Arielsmom is correct. There have been periods of time when there have been gluts in certain engineering fields. Getting a nurisng job in some areas is a cinch, in others not so. Teaching in a public school has become a tough job to get.</p>

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<p>^ I certainly believe that!</p>

<p>@redeye; in my state (i’d rather not say which one, but i’m in the NE), for secondary you would major in history. Social studies education is for grades 1-6. I checked our DOE to confirm this.</p>

<p>Basically, what happens is you get your bachelor’s in your subject area while either double majoring or minoring in education, while being in a licensure program. Once you get your preliminary license, you HAVE to get your master’s (in education or the MAT) within 5 years of that.</p>

<p>Also, for the CC that may be the case, but from what I added and going through their NPC, it’s that almost $5200 tuition plus the few thousand in books, other fees, etc.</p>

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<p>I am a teacher and some of the information on this thread is incorrect.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Most schools see the MAT as a plus, not a negative. If you are a first year teacher, you are cheap with or without a master’s. It’s the 10 year veterans that have the trouble getting hired in SOME districts.</p></li>
<li><p>The advice about not taking on loans and not going out of state is 100% correct. Everyone who went out of state or back to their home state for a job from my school had to spend the year volunteering or as an aide while getting licensure in order. The alternative is to teach 3 years in the college’s state to earn reciprocity.</p></li>
<li><p>The market for both history and elementary teachers is poor. You might not even get a job for 1-3 years after graduation depending on your state. Unless you are pursuing special education you do not have a high likelyhood of a job at graduation. I say this after watching many friends search for a year, and I went to one of the top 10 ed schools in the country (UVa - we had only 3/30 not get jobs my year and 2 of those were by choice, though I have friends at other colleges where the rate was still 33% jobless after 1 year, etc).</p></li>
<li><p>There is no price differential in elementary vs high school. The scale is by years earned. In my state (VA) you can earn anywhere from 36,000 to 52,000 as a first year teacher with masters depending on area. The salary is regardless of what subject or age you teach.</p></li>
<li><p>Most of the teachers at my school have debt. One was all excited last year when she realized it would be paid off by the time she was 40. She has 2 kids, single, now remarried and with 2 more stepkids, and I don’t know how she makes her budget work. I am single and can barely make mine work and I have no debt. You’ll be living with roommates until you’re 40/married, unable to buy the healthiest food (which doesn’t matter considering how teachers eat in 20 minutes every day and have plenty of digestion problems from not being able to go to the bathroom regularly), unable to take trips, etc, unless you work over the summer (whoever says teachers get the summer off has no idea). It is all worth it for the kids, if you really love teaching, but don’t take on debt that is unnecessary.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>And what you are saying about MAT is correct. I have my BA in math and my MT in elem ed, I can teach elem ed PreK-6 and Math 6-12.</p>

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<p>Phew, i’m slightly relieved that I have some of it right. And glad that we have someone to confirm the wonderful advice in this thread!</p>

<p>I have my financial safeties to fall back on, so I guess a good amount of this is down to thumb-twiddling (besides applying for that scholarship) to see how the FA ends up.</p>

<p>I think I am still going to go with secondary education, though. I love the little ones but it’s not my cup of tea. Is there any way I can be certified in both secondary and special ed. in order to increase my marketability, but still end up teaching history?</p>

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<p>Yep. Good luck!</p>

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<p>We all know that CC would be less expensive, but as the parent I would really not want my child driving 1 1/2 + hours per day to school and back. That time really adds up, cuts down on your productivity and also takes away from your ability to work part time. Gas, car repairs and auto insurance can not be overlooked, they add up fast. I would have to put a value on knowing my child just had to walk to class vs driving everyday with all the danger that comes along with that. I really hope you do get to go away , that is a huge education in itself that you don’t find in a book , you might not get that at a CC .Good luck!</p>

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<p>Aomame, as I read your posts, especially the first, I was struck by three things:

  1. Your mother seems irrational and contradictory about the whole college financing thing.
  2. You show a lot of maturity for your age, in the sense that you seem thoughtful, self-aware, perceptive and articulate.
  3. Your mother is putting some conditions on her cooperation with your efforts to get financial aid (e.g. don’t choose this or that major).</p>

<p>Putting all these together, I think you should choose the least expensive of all the viable options. That will give you the most flexibility as time goes on. In college you will be opening many doors, both in academic fields and in yourself. You need to be able to chart your own path, and to be able to change your path as you go. You need to be able to trust your own instincts. The best way to do this is to minimize your dependence on your parents.</p>

<p>Spending as little as possible will free you up to enjoy the best aspects of your relationship with your parents (and vice versa).</p>

<p>In fact, you might even want to consider postponing college for a year in order to establish financial independence. That would mean supporting yourself and living independently so as not to be a dependent on your parents’ tax return. This would open you up tremendously for need-based financial aid after that transitional year.</p>

<p>If you decide to go this route, you’ll need to be a little bit careful how you present your decision to your parents. You don’t want them to feel rejected, or think that it is a reaction to the irrationality reigning in the college financing realm (even if it at least partially is). I would recommend doing it step by step. Here’s an outline of the steps you might go through in what you tell them (leaving plenty of time to digest things in between steps):</p>

<p>Step 1. I’ve been realizing that I don’t know exactly what I want to study or where I want to study. While I’m figuring that out, I want to get a full-time job and being a productive member of society. But I’m going to set a time limit for myself – my gap period won’t be more than one year.</p>

<p>Step 2. (After at least six weeks of gainful employment) Wow, I can’t believe what a shot of self-confidence working has been giving me! I’m enjoying the challenge of standing on my own two feet. In fact, I would like to try leaving the nest for a while, to challenge myself a little further. Look, here’s the shared housing I’ve found, here’s what it will cost [no more than half of your personal earnings].</p>

<p>Step 3. (Several weeks after moving into the cheap shared housing, calling your parents a couple of times a week, and visiting about once a week WITHOUT BRINGING DIRTY LAUNDRY WITH YOU) Hey, I’m pretty well set up in my place now, would you like to come over for dinner on Friday? I’m cooking.</p>

<p>Whenever your parents ask if you need money, just say, “It’s nice of you to think of me, but I’m actually doing okay.”</p>

<p>However, if your exit from your parents’ house and finances turns out not to be as graceful as you would like, don’t blame yourself, or them. It can be hard to extricate yourself without feelings getting hurt. But no matter how messy it gets, chances are very good that eventually things will calm down and you’ll be able to enjoy each others’ company again.</p>

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<p>aparente, taking a year off to work will not establish independence regarding financial aid. Financial aid will be based on her parents’ income, even if she is not a dependent.</p>

<p>Yes her mother appears irrational, and I wouldn’t count on her support, but her father seems to have a good head on his shoulders. I would suggest sitting down with both parents and discussing exactly how they are willing to support her, and under what conditions. If the two parents are giving differing opinions, you need to determine which is reality. Actually, it appears there might be some mental health issues with mom, and dad needs to be aware of them and deal with them.</p>

<p>Once you know what kind of financial support is available, then you need to seriously consider the options. Are there likely to be jobs in your chosen field 4 or 5 years from now? Right now the best opportunities as a teacher are in math and science, as well as select specialty subjects (if you are certified to teach Mandarin Chinese in my state, several districts will fight for the right to hire you, because there are so few teachers available). </p>

<p>Assuming you expect jobs to be available, what are the certification requirements? Are they different if you stay in-state vs. out of state? What will each of these options cost total? If out of state will require longer, how much more will it cost, and what earning potential will you lose during that time? Are you even planning to return to your home state to teach? If not, check certification requirements in areas you might settle.</p>

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<p>

My daughter is certified for social studies 7-12 (history major) and is finishing her master’s in special education (also 7-12). Having both does make one more marketable, but most positions are special education first. Make sure that you actually could teach 7-12 special ed kids because they are tough. They are mostly boys, mostly large, and almost all behavior problems in some fashion or another.</p>

<p>Another thing I would like to point out is that in addition to licensing requirements, going out of the area in which you plan to teach prevents you from making connections. In many places it’s the people you meet while student teaching or doing observation hours for your classes who will help you get a job. In many areas, the old adage of “it’s not what you know, it’s who you know” is spot on. Also, it’s when doing the student teaching and observation hours that you get a sense of the lay of the land. Which schools and subjects hire, which have a pipeline that you can’t join, all sorts of things.</p>

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<p>EFC is just that…the expected amount of money that the family needs to poney up. I assume from your posts that your FAFSA numbers are driven by your parents income. Whoevers income is driving that number should be responsible for paying for it. They, by definition, can afford it. </p>

<p>The good news is they dont have to take out loans. Consider that they will see financial savings when you go to school. Specifically:

  • They dont have to pay for your food, shelter, auto insurance, cell phone, clothes, etc any more. Those are in your college budget now (or you go without them).
  • They get to keep whatever tax credits and deductions they are eligible for.<br>
  • They were saving for college before. Whatever that savings rate was can be applied to your college expense. </p>

<p>I think if you add those together they can come up with 6K a year.</p>