“Interesting to see many people on these boards who are able to to get into MIchigan or UVA as OOS students, but would choose to go to Alabama for free.”
There are plenty of students who who would go to UA for free, even those who were admitted to “elite” privates, if the costs were unattainable.
“There are no elite public flagship universities. If there were, why would they offer “honors college” inside the university? You don’t find these same programs at private elites (you will find honors courses but that is quite different.)”
Michigan doesn’t have an “honors college,” it has an honors program. The honors program has some honors courses, just like an elite private. So much for your “no elite public flagship universities” statement.
^ UVa also doesn’t have an honors college. It has Echols Scholars, which offers some perks.
Cal also doesn’t have an honors college. Regent Scholars offers some perks.
No special honors college classes at either.
Then again, Columbia and Duke also have some scholars programs with perks. Maybe they aren’t elite either.
“OK, well as long as your not telling me a student will have the same experience at UMich as they would at Harvard.”
That would depend a lot on the major, for CS and engineering, maybe pre-med, students could have a better experience at UMich because that’s their strength, you’d feel more at home, you’d have access to professors doing innovative research. And Harvard is not exactly known for catering to their undergrads.
“There are no elite public flagship universities.”
It’s obvious that’s your position and no one is going to change your mind on that. However, if costs were the same would you advise an engineering major to attend Ga Tech, ranked #4 in engineering or Vanderbilt, ranked #34, since you’ve also admitted to using rankings when assessing elite and prestige.
No two colleges of any type or rank will provide the same experience. I’ve attended both UMich and Harvard. I much preferred my Michigan experience, in and out of the classroom. YMMV.
“Then again, Columbia and Duke also have some scholars programs with perks. Maybe they aren’t elite either.”
Yup. Duke has to pay kids (in the form of full ride Robertson Scholars) in order to keep them from enrolling at Harvard. Sad!
So does Notre Dame (Hesburgh Scholars), Vanderbilt (Cornelius Vanderbilt Scholars), Emory (Woodruff Scholars), Rice (Trustee Scholars), WashU (Danforth Scholars), USC (Trustee Scholars), UVA (Jefferson Scholars) and UNC (Morehead Scholars). Very Sad!!
Well, Harvard is actually very strong in CS and I actually would advise Harvard over UMich if you are pre-med and costs are not a factor, but in any case, nobody on here is saying UMich is Harvard, so that really is a strawman argument (as many have pointed out).
The more relevant question is whether being full-pay at NYU (big and near-Ivy and private) automatically and always is a better option than paying OOS for UMich (big and near-Ivy and public). UMich actually has a bigger endowment per capita than NYU. UMich has more big classes, but that’s because NYU hires a ton more adjuncts. NYU isn’t Harvard either.
And yes, Harvard isn’t exactly know for the quality of its undergraduate education.
“There are no elite public flagship universities. If there were, why would they offer “honors college” inside the university? You don’t find these same programs at private elites (you will find honors courses but that is quite different.)”
Places like Oklahoma, Arizona, Bama, South Carolina etc. are the kind of places that do the full blown “school within a school” honors college. Not so much at the public Ivy level.
Plenty of privates play that game too. Although (as with the publics) less so the higher you go up the ladder.
Hmmm. I’ve always thought that Harvard isn’t Michigan… Before I went off to B-school, my staff gave me a tee-shirt that read, “Harvard, the Michigan of the East.” They just thought I couldn’t get in to Michigan.