<p>LasMas, the “trick” was that the SW told ME not to raise Caregivers as an option. The SW herself asked my mother What are your plans for the future? My mother about the caregivers then. The SW FIRST and firmly told her AL was a much preferred option, your daughter has told me you have refused to talk to her about it, and we here as a group (she implied) support your daughter and are forcing you (she furtheri implied) to listen to what she learned from the eldercare lawyer and her own research. The “trick” was simply that she forced my mother to listen to the whole options-story from start to finish. </p>
<p>Dharmawheel- I wish you and your mother the best going forward. </p>
<p>You will soon have information about how well having her in the house is working via your own observations and those of her caregivers. I would be viewing this as a trial run, and keep that in mind during all interactions. If there are gaps, incidents, falls, misjudgments, etc, you can frame them as just the data needed to have to inform future decisions. I would give this time before I started the reverse mortgage process. That way, if this quickly becomes unworkable, you can move to plan B. I would normalize having a Plan B with mother and get psychiatrist on board with this de-toxification of a different option. Very little is certain day to day for many frail elders and you can role model a flexibility and a matter of fact attitude. </p>
<p>Hang in there! </p>
<p>Oh gotcha Dharma. I did miss that, sorry. </p>
<p>Any chance you could call the SW and say "You see how she is. Any suggestions? "</p>
<p>I forgot to give you a hug last night so here it is (((((())))))</p>
<p>Agree with travelnut. Hold off on the RM for a bit.</p>
<p>Dharmawheel, I would certainly like to support you with the option you chose. I agree to give this some time before starting the reverse mortgage process because you can’t take re reverse the mortgage. Better yet, when the RM needs to be applied for, have your mother handle it. If your mom does the cycle of hospital and rehab again, just know that she can be transported directly to the AL or NH without your involvement. Your responsibility is to make sure your mom is cared for, not making her every wish come true. I would also try to limit your involvement at this time. If your mom burns bridges with caregivers, which she surely will, let her manage it. If she can’t, then she can no longer live at home. Don’t answer her calls! Your mother will create drama to pull you away from your family (purpose on insulting your husband). Please don’t let that happen. Establish boundaries. Let your mother know this is her decision against your best judgement and she must manage the consequences. </p>
<p>Also you probably want to brief the shrink on this week’s developments. In the end, he might be the one who can get through to her.</p>
<p>Dharma - if you can learn anything from me, and everyone else, try and learn from our mistakes. My mom was recently hospitalized. She absolutely hates being in the hospital and the recommendation was for her to go to rehab. Instead, I got talked into having her rehabilitate here. So I jumped through incredible hoops to get her into my doctors practice, where she would then qualify for nursing care and pt. It was firmly agreed she had to have those things to come to my house. And she promptly fired them at the first visit. She didn’t feel like what she needed was all that much. But completely taking care of a person who wants things the way she wants them, when she wants them is more than all encompassing. I really thought I was going to lose it. My family was really upset but in the awful position of what do you do - not help her? In the midst of that was my daughters graduation and orientation for college. I spent my time worrying about my mom and not embracing the here and now of my own daughters graduation. I did something that my siblings thought was really obnoxious. I told mom, since you broke your end of the agreement, I’m breaking mine. You are going home and figuring this out on your own. However, by the time I did send her home - and she was hospitalized while she was with me again - she was much better. But I know somewhere in that head of her she was thinking it would be a very acceptable option to stay with me so we could all wait on her hand and foot. And not only that, entertain her as well. It’s too much to ask of someone else! And if I learned anything, it’s that I will be planning for my later years myself and not waiting until a crisis of epic proportions.</p>
<p>In fact I have a call in to shrink, whom as I mentioned before has been treating her about 40 years. he probably knows her better than I do. I asked that he call me back today, however late, and he will. I
Have to bring him up to date, but specifically ask him to give me an honest assessment of the codependency question which looking forward raised. After my father died, my mom drove herself to her monthly appts with him until she gave up driving about five years ago, when I took over the driving. i have also asked the terrific social worker to call me back and specifically address the codependency issue. She is intimate in the details of the last 8 wks or so and has a lot of the back story.</p>
<p>i want to ask both if it is better to not take calls or just say well, spagettis boiling over, gota go, hope you’had a nice day! Which way is the least “dangerous”</p>
<p>Codependency is defined as a relationship in which both parties derive pleasure. I dont see it that way. i see myself as a player in a scenario in which I have had some control I refuse constant invitations to go out to lunch dunkin donuts, school recitals–I insist she cannot handle the crowds or sloping floor, the auditorium chairs, etc) but powerless to make what the lawyer called "her"decision for her in this great involved drama.</p>
<p>On her day off Sat I will also ask my friend the social worker to assess codepemdency as a factor. She has known my family for 20 years from when we both adopted babies from China. She has been close to the whole story for years so will have some valuable, as well as professional, insight.</p>
<p>Good advice about stalling on the RM.</p>
<p>As for her scaring a way the live-in care giver, I dont think it will happen. The woman was very skilled at making herself jolly, warm, and solicitous. Plus she cooks Polish food. I think my mother will love the undivided attention. IF she changes her mind, I give her The Polish agency’s phone number, she pays them another $4K and the women walk back and forth from the train for interviews</p>
<p>Good good. Sounds like you are rallying on-scene support. </p>
<p>And we are here to support you too. It might seem like we’ve been rough with you, but it’s only because we’ve been through it and, as eyeamom says, we hope you can avoid some of the mistakes we made. But regardless of what you decide to do, or what happens next week or next year, we’ll be here to get you through it. 
</p>
<p>Dharmawheel --</p>
<p>My MIL lived in her house until she died. She was mentally competent, though she got a little fuzzy toward the end, and refused all alternative living arrangements. I live 800 miles away, and my husband is an only child. I did not do a good enough job setting boundaries, and it cost me a lot. I also had a high school senior when MIL’s condition worsened, and if I had to choose, it was my kid every time. </p>
<p>Setting boundaries is the biggest challenge in this kind of situation. Some thought ahead of time on your boundaries, and your priorities will help you a lot going forward. Give your mom the phone number of the agency. Let her do the arranging for substitutes when her aide goes on vacation, gets sick, or has a wedding to attend. You are not responsible for being the emergency caregiver or for finding emergency care givers; don’t let yourself get trapped into that. She has chosen to live at home instead of in an Assisted Living situation, she needs to be the one who copes if her caregiver arrangement falls apart. (And, it will. Pretty much guaranteed. People get sick, family members become ill/die, …) You found a payroll service that will handle reporting. Get out of that loop. Don’t feel like you have to answer every phone call, or have unpleasant, lengthy phone conversations. You don’t. </p>
<p>My MIL got a reverse mortgage without asking for advice. It was terrible financially, especially since she had other resources she should have tapped first. Personally, I wouldn’t do anything to facilitate that. </p>
<p>Wishing you all the best…it is a tough time. </p>
<p>There’s no hurry about the reverse mortgage. Dharmawheel’s mother has $60K.</p>
<p>I was wondering about the new wage and hour regulations that will be in effect in January. Won’t they mean a big hike in the caretaker wages?</p>
<p>Yes, do not initiate the reverse mortgage right now.</p>
<p>My mother was bi-polar, although cycled depression when diagnosed (in her late 50’s after all of us were grown and she worried that dad would leave her because she was so difficult throughout almost all of their marriage - he hung in). One year (after my dad died) she was hospitalized over Christmas-time. Her psychiatrist suspected she was experiencing some dementia and was on memory medication; it was an opportune time to have her tested. The medical staff broke the news to her (we didn’t go into further testing with trying to narrow down more on specific diagnosis because her treatment was the same). Mom did cry over several days, but as we all do with life’s bumps, we go on. Mom was very strong willed all her life; she was not combative in her dementia, and fortunately did not spend down resources because we could use the most cost-effective care.</p>
<p>@dharmawheel you are the only one on this thread willing to go ahead and let your mom move home with the caregivers and sucking up your time and energy.</p>
<p>Let her have little victories. You need to get her into AL.</p>
<p>Dharma, here’s my little trick for dealing with verbally abusive people. I stand up, say calmly but firmly "I will be back when you can speak to me in a civil way, " and leave the room, ignoring protests or further abuse. Repeat as often as needed. HIGHLY effective. ;-)</p>
<p>Codependency is a much deeper issue than both sides deriving “pleasure.” It is an entanglement that often runs back to childhood. Please read more about it. Being at her beck and call, being afraid she might hit you or cause a scene, her not being willing to bend, so you have to bend, are markers. Sometimes, just to keep the peace, it mushrooms. The pleasure of not being hit or screamed at. </p>
<p>It was first described in alcoholism and is now broader. A family member with a history of mental illness often exerts this control- everyone on eggshells, putting their own needs secondary. The guilty feelings and fears she might have something worse happen if you don’t do as she wishes, exactly as she wants. The fact you feel trapped, can;t exert your own reasonable influence on what happens after NH. </p>
<p>Sure, some people rebel a bit, when it feels safe. Not answering the phone or begging off. Not grocery shopping today, putting it off. Those are small pressure releases only. small assertions of independence. </p>
<p>It’s not pleasure in the sense of Oh boy, isn’t this fun! It’s more a deep psychological need, often unconscious. </p>
<p>Dharmawheel, sending hugs. You are trying so hard to follow your mom’s wishes and you’ve had a steep learning curve. If I had it to do over again with my mother and my aunt, I would have set boundaries much sooner and my health would not have suffered. I also would have gone for counseling for myself. Hindsight is 20/20. I have a wonderful husband and children that did suffer because of the drama and numerous “crises”. We will be here to listen and support you through all of this. We want others to learn lessons from the various paths and solutions that we followed.</p>
<p>Lookingforward, your description of the situation is accurate and well-written. Based on your remarks I am willing to “broaden” my understanding of co-dependency. But just a few minutes ago my mother’s shrink called me back and I gave him an update of the last 7 weeks, the choices made, the abusive remarks. He indignantly scoffed when I asked him if in his estimation I was in a “co dependent” relationship with my mother, and said "certainly not’. But he must go by the, say “old school” definition of codependency, where the term seems to currently/recently have developed broader and more-wide reaching meaning. I am willing to look for books in the library system…but not, say, until October! He did say quickly into our conversation (when I was outlining assets) that he does not expect her to live three years. He added, that with Barbara in the picture, I was free to cut back on the phone calls, visits with the dog, and keep the grocerystore/CVS visits to a once-a-week routine. If she calls, I can choose to ignore caller ID, or pick up and day Hope you’re fine! Pot’s boiling over, gotta go, talk to you later! And hang up.</p>
<p>LasMas, yes indeed, I have a call into the SW to call me back for two purposes, to review yesterday’s mtg from her professional perspective–to talk about the sensitive stuff–, and to ask her about the codependent thing (she knows a lot of the back story.) I will be out till 1 pm tomorrow but hope to catch her in the afternoon.</p>
<p>Eyeamom, in 3505, that is just an awful story about the time with your mother surrounding your own daughter’s graduation and college orientation. </p>
<p>The new law going into effect 1/1/15 will have an affect on “hourly wages” but the lawyer said we could finesse them and be okay. </p>
<p>Thanks for listening!</p>
<p>LasMa, sorry I got your name wrong a few times.</p>
<p>I’ve been called worse. :P</p>
<p>I think the label is less important than figuring out how to deal with your mom in a way that works for you, because what’s going on now clearly doesn’t.</p>
<p>Dharma, ultimately, you will make your own best decisions. The other buzzwords are facilitating or enabling, etc. I think it’s just good to keep an eye on yourself every so often, be sure you are ok, and the family is. </p>
<p>The doc gave you permission to draw back a bit. Hope that helps. We all need a spa day or something. Best wishes.</p>
<p>Good luck, Dharma! This is a very tough situation to be in and you are doing the best you can. I urge you, as everyone on this thread has unanimously, to think of YOU and YOUR FAMILY and YOUR MARRIAGE. Elders can surprise folks with how long they live, in spite of predictions of a shortened lifespan. </p>
<p>It sounds like your mom’s therapist wants to do what is easiest and best for YOUR MOM and isn’t at all considering its effects on you or your family. It is your mom that he IDs with and serves–if he can get you do continue doing the heavy work, it makes his job so much easier. It doesn’t sound like he is an ally or at all unbiased.</p>
<p>I would urge you to establish boundaries and NOT start the reversed mortgage process. Let your mom do so if and when she needs to–the $60,000 will at least probably last until her next hospitalization. Let her and her discharge planners and social workers figure out what happens after that–do NOT get involved and the problem will solve itself appropriately with AL or NH, since that is truly what it sounds like your mom would most benefit from. </p>