Parents' Contribution for Student =$62,579 (per year)

Paying for College
1

<p>I'll speak plainly - Are there any other parents out there in my financial situation (see below) and have have NOT paid full tuition at a top 30 private school? Most schools my child is targeting don't offer many merit scholarships.l Is there any hope that I won't be paying the sticker price at UPenn or a like top 30 private school?</p>

<p>Please read on, and thank you for anyone replying.</p>

<p>I just ran the CollegeBoard EFC calculator and in summary it says:</p>

<p>Parents' Contribution for Student = $ 62,579 (per year)</p>

<p>I make enough in salary and have enough saved that I am expected to pay in full. </p>

<p>But I am not a millionaire, I just have a good salary (under $200k) and have saved some. But paying for UPenn or a like school, at about ~$50+k per year for 4 years will wipe out two thirds of my savings. And I have other children to put through college. </p>

<p>Living on the east coast of the USA is not cheap. I work hard to make my 401k contributions and after that, bills, bills, bills, keeping the kids enriched, and NOT taking expensive vacations, and NOT buying expensive cars, there is not much left. </p>

<p>If you could post any real results where families saw UPenn or like schools 'chipping in' money for a situation like mine, that would be great.</p>

<p>Thanks in advance, and look forward to your posts.</p>

<p>Steve</p>

2

<p>It would be beneficial to look at schools with merit aid for which your children qualify. Rice offers merit aid to the top 30% of its accepted (?) class.</p>

3

<p>Upenn has a need based financial aid. So there is no merit aid at Penn. If your EFC is over the COA at Penn then you will be paying full sticker, all the ivies are need only.</p>

<p>Duke provides merit, as does Vandy, Rice, Emory, USC (CA)…but these are for the very, tippy top students. Other unis provide merit but are not within the top 30 privates as you have referred to. There are many excellent undergrad institutions that do provide merit aid including OOS publics however it depends on your childrens’ stats and the school needs that application cycle to determine how much merit your children will be eligible for.</p>

<p>Read the Parents Forum and the stickys that list the colleges with the best merit awards. The info abounds on this site. It is there pretty straightforward.</p>

<p>Good luck and WELCOME!</p>

<p>Kat</p>

4

<p>Harvard FA is 10% of adjusted gross up to $180K. Rice and the other mentioned schools are all need based schools as well. Rice may well offer you merit, but it will offset any need based aid. Not a problem for OP, but a hit for most of us. We has $60K merit at Rice and Harvard was still cheaper.</p>

5

<p>Hi and welcome to CC Steve. </p>

<p>You are not alone, many upper middle income (100-200k) families, particularly those who have been responsible and saved, have EFCs above the COA of most privates. Many (most?) do pay full fare to the top privates that don’t offer merit. The possible exceptions would be at HYPS as they have recent FA initiatives which are kinder to people in this income range. For instance, my D transferred last year and with their new policy, Y gave us about 25k in work study and grant aid even though our family EFC was about 50k. Other schools such as Dartmouth, Brown and Amherst offered zero FA. My feeling is that UPenn would offer about the same FA as these latter schools.</p>

<p>There are some top schools that offer merit: in addition to Rice, WUSTL, Duke, Emory, CMU, BU, UMichigan, UVA, UNC-CH, CWU, Brandeis, Tulane, USC, Vandy, Grinnell, UChicago, Scripps and Smith if female, and others.</p>

<p>x-posted w/kat & bandit</p>

6

<p>Steve:</p>

<p>once you get above $150k income, without extenuating circumstances or multiple kids in college, it’s pretty much full pay everywhere but Harvard which gives out some aid to those up to $180k.</p>

7

<p>stevegrce,</p>

<p>Welcome to FAFSA-shock. This is why public universities (and decent community colleges) are crawling with students from families just like yours.</p>

<p>My college roommate and her husband have only one child. They lived on one salary for four years and sent every after-tax cent of the second salary to the top school that child attended. No new clothes, only emergency household and automobile repairs, lots of rice and beans. Whether this would be possible for your family is something only your family can decide. Do not for one minute think that you “have” to send your kids to their “dream” schools.</p>

<p>You and your spouse need to take a long hard look at your financial goals. Be honest with yourselves. Do not expect to be in full agreement when you start out. Work toward an agreement on what is actually affordable for your household. Then, when you know what that number is, be honest with your children. When they know what the financial limits are, they can become active in finding colleges and universities that are realistic options for them. </p>

<p>Wishing you all the best.</p>

8

<p>You might want to look at momfromtexas’s thread about strategically applying to get a full ride: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/291483-update-what-i-learned-about-free-ride-scholarships.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/291483-update-what-i-learned-about-free-ride-scholarships.html&lt;/a&gt; Also look at the “Best Schools that give the Most Merit Aid” thread at the top of the Financial Aid forum. Take a realistic look at your child’s qualifications and have them apply to schools where they are in the very top % of applicants. Good luck!</p>

9

<p>Share the financial decision process with your child so that they know what you have to work with and so they can understand the tradeoffs of money against bills and the future bills of their siblings.</p>

10

<p>“I have other children to put through college.”</p>

<p>If two of more will be in college at the same time, that will help the financial aid situation a lot.</p>

<p>But, speaking as someone who is in almost exactly the same income class (not upper middle class, something most Americans can only dream of) my message is this:</p>

<p>A private college is a luxury. No one has a right to attend such a college, and we do not have a right to complain if we wish to spend our luxury dollars elsewhere. Any aid is an act of grace from the college and should be treated as such .</p>

<p>Other than that, I strongly agree with the always sensible BCEagle.</p>

11

<p>

</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>According to the 2007 census, families with incomes of 197k and above are in the top 5%; the median family income is about 50k:</p>

<p>[Historical</a> Income Tables - Families](<a href=“http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/histinc/f01AR.html]Historical”>http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/histinc/f01AR.html)</p>

<p>That’s why I (generously) called the OPs income “upper middle”.</p>

12

<p>

</p>

<p>That was a very extreme circumstance, as a result, a strategy that I would only recommend in extreme situations. I don’t think we should be advocating not spending a penny on our childrens’ educations unless we absolutely have to. A good balance can be found that is both affordable for the parents and challenging/exciting for the students. Merit money is excellent, but I would recommend it for this poster for great schools that will give a discount, not average/below average schools that will let you go free. Let’s keep the purpose of merit money in mind–attract students way above the caliber of the average attending student.</p>

13

<p>

</p>

<p>This is only if you have what them deem to be ‘typical’ assets. </p>

<p>As Emm1 points out, when figuring out what you can afford look at the overlap that might be there for several of the years your kids are in college. Of course this only works if all of your kids are competitive enough to all attend schools that meet 100% of need.</p>

<p>Otherwise, your kids will be in good company among upper middle class kids who need to focus on merit aid schools. The idea is to determine this and be honest with them before the lists are made.</p>

14

<p>I am not an expert on financial aid whatsoever, so I’m curious–does the value of one’s home get included in the aid calculation? If so, since the OP states that he lives in a high-cost part of the Northeast, this could mean that he has “above-average” assets and may not receive as much aid as others with his income even at Harvard.</p>

15

<p>

</p>

<p>I am under the impression that most top schools do meet 100% of need, although every once and a while I come across a post where a school I would expect to meet full need apparently does not. I am very open to being proven wrong on this point as I would love to know. If anybody has a list of those that do, that would also be helpful.</p>

16

<p>^^^
[Schools</a> That Say They Meet Full Need - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/articles/business/paying-for-college/2008/09/05/schools-that-say-they-meet-full-need.html]Schools”>http://www.usnews.com/articles/business/paying-for-college/2008/09/05/schools-that-say-they-meet-full-need.html)</p>

<p>However, a school’s definition of a family’s “need” quite often does not match the family’s idea of need.</p>

17

<p>Bigp, need is a calculated amount. COA - EFC = need. If EFC > COA, there is no need and therefore no need based aid. Here’s a link to a list of schools that meet need without loans:
<a href=“http://projectonstudentdebt.org/pc_institution.php[/url]”>http://projectonstudentdebt.org/pc_institution.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Steve, almost every family is stressed over their EFC and the price of colleges, once they get into “college mode”. It’s good that you’re thinking about this now, instead of enduring the heartbreak of a senior with few choices other than to sink the family financially.</p>

<p>The best and kindest thing that you can do for your kids right now is to decide how much you can realistically afford to contribute to their college education, total and annually, barring unforseen events. Make it known to them now, before “dream school” mentality sets in. I would also invest in the book “Paying for College Without Going Broke” which is updated annually. </p>

<p>Kids do have many options in coming up with their “share” including loans, part time jobs, merit aid at other great colleges, outside scholarships, even forgoing an expensive hobby/activity now and having you put that money away for them instead, as my D did. I think it’s a very good idea for kids to have some “skin in the game” and a goal to work toward and if you introduce the idea of contributing to their own education now it will give them some time to look for such opportunities. </p>

<p>Also, encourage them to explore and apply to a variety of schools. When it’s time to make the final decision, most kids who take this route will choose the school that best meets their needs academically, socially, and financially.</p>

<p>If you haven’t already, you might start cutting back on the “extras” in your budget now which will ease the transition when tuition payments start. It’s surprising how much they add up to and, if you make it a family project, how creative and unifying it can be!</p>

18

<p>First off, thank you katwkittens, bandit_TX, entomom, bluebayou, happymomof1, alamemom, BCEagle91, EMM1, hmom5, bigp9998, midmo, for your thoughtful replies. Sorry if I missed any names.</p>

<p>I am not on a search for a school that has merit aid, nor am I complaining of paying for the luxury of a UPenn or like school. If I chose to pay for UPenn then I must live with the life consequences of spending my savings on such a school. Costs are a bit out of whack though - like many costs in our modern world! </p>

<p>But the goal of my post was to find out (from the boards’collective wisdom) if there are any ‘grey areas’ - where EFC calculations ‘fail’, and where human (financial aid staff) judgement kicks in - but for a person like me: a parent with no extentuating financial circumstances, with just enough $ saved to consider a UPenn-like $chool, but where common financial sense shows significant parental financial sacrifice will be made. Are exceptions ever made? I’ve hesitated mentioning my child through this post,but I guess you inevitably have to. With true humility, my child is a top student, I have no doubts he is UPenn worthy (I know roll the dice). If you take that statement about my child at face value, does a financial aid officer and their admisisons counterpart ever say “we want that student (even with the parent’s high EFC), so we’ll kick in some grant money” Does contingency money exist at these UPenn schools in the form of grants or other financial mechanisms for circumstances like mine and my childs?</p>

<p>So far the # of posts I have received has been many, and collectively I am hearing that I will be paying full sticker on the UPenns of the world. But I am persistent and ask that everyone keep on posting. Wow, what an education.</p>

<p>I posted a duplicate query on the UPenn message board and got this reply, which was answered by a student, not an admsisons professional, nor a parent. But it does sound like a circumstance where the financial aid staff did ‘bend’ a little, even with a family that is</p>

<h2>paying off 2 homes and had an EFC > 50K. But the poster is not clear on the ‘brother who is in college’ factor. Here is the link and comment from that thread.</h2>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-pennsylvania/729670-upper-middle-class-parent-efc-62-579-a.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-pennsylvania/729670-upper-middle-class-parent-efc-62-579-a.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<h2>TRICH - I am entering Penn in the Fall as a freshman and my family had an EFC of around 55 thousand and at first we didn not qualify for aid, but then we called and talked to the people at the aid office and they eventually gave us 7 grand in grants, one of the main selling points was that we have 2 houses to pay for and that i have a brother who is also in college.</h2>

<p>FWIW, I ran the EFC calculator, and then took PDF ‘The EFC Formula, 2009-2010’ and analysed it, and created a spreadsheet from it. The numbers came out close. And the EFC Formula, does show these allowances (which includes some state allowances).</p>

<p>State and Tax allowance (Table A1)
Social Security Tax (Table A2)
Income Protection allowance (Table A3)
Business/Farm (Table A4)
Ed and Asset Protection Allowance (Table A5)
Parents AAI (Table A6)
State and Other Tax Allowance (Table A7)</p>

<p>And bigp9998 - value of one’s home is in the EFC calculator and very likely counted as an asset in the EFC formula.</p>

<p>Steve</p>

19

<p>Although you do not qualify for need based aid, at times presenting your case directly to the financial aid officers, with an appeal letter, and a phone call and direct face to face meeting can sometimes result in awards being granted. At times, it is how much the school wants you, especially if you are a top student, recruited athlete, or fill some other need to the school. It is certainly worth the effort, but reconcile with the fact that you most likely will pay the full amount with your EFC. Summer work for student and outside scholarships can assist as well.</p>

20

<p>The best advice I ever read on these boards was to plan from the bottom up. So as you and your child put the “list” together have a good financial safety school that you know you can afford comfortably and your child will be willing to attend.</p>