Parents, Help for a Senior

Parents Forum
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<p>Hello parents,
I'm sorry to ask what must be a mundane and often repeated question here, but my guidance counselor has been no help and I need some advice on scheduling.</p>

<p>I attend an arts magnet school that doesn't offer many advanced academic classes. This year, after taking out the periods where I'm taking (high difficulty level- not blow offs) arts classes, I have four periods left for academics. Unfortunately, due to both scheduling conflicts and my school's limited options, I'm going to end up taking science, math, and social studies online. </p>

<p>I would like to apply to some very selective colleges, and I don't want to seem like I'm blowing off my senior year, but at the same time I worry about the feasibility of essentially teaching myself high-difficulty material in subjects I'm not strong in. Therefore, I was considering AP stat instead of AP Calc BC (took AB last year and got a 5, but there are no teachers at my school who know the BC material and could help me if I get stuck), and AP environmental science/AP psych (each one semester) instead of AP bio. However, I realize these are considered the "easy" AP classes, and that even in conjunction with my other two academic classes (AP government and AP language) my schedule may be judged as "easy" (especially since I don't have room in it for a foreign language). </p>

<p>Sorry this has been so long winded. Basically what I'd like from you parents is some feedback. Which courses would you recommend I take? (I should mention I'm a potential history, government, or journalism major) Have your kids had success/failure with distance learning, and why do you think it worked/didn't work? I'm sorry again for bugging you with this, but I didn't know who else to ask. Thank you so so much for any info you can give me.</p>

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<p>Hi-rising senior mom-thoughts: being involved with the arts magnet school-and still well in academics-GREAT! My D(perf.arts academy) took AP BC Cal last year-doable-but challenging toward the end-she did not have help-had to do it herself-succeeded. AP Bio-did you take Bio honors already?May wish to learn something new in Env.Sci-how do you handle lab work online?</p>

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<p>I am not an admissions counselor, but given that AP Calculus BC isn't offered by your school, I don't think you'll be penalized - perhaps your GC can even mention that on their part of the application if it's not clear from the school description they provide. (Ours list AP classes the school offers.) I don't see how taking two APs (env. sci and psych.) instead of one (Bio) could truly be counted against you. I can't imagine trying to do AP Bio on line. Not only is it one of the most difficult APs (huge amounts of material to memorize), I don't see how you can manage the labs. I think your schedule sounds fine - and you can always mention that you would have liked to continue language studies but had scheduling conflicts.</p>

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<p>Vegangirl:</p>

<p>If you already got AB-Calc (congrats on the 5!) you don't need to worry about taking BC. And since you would like to be a history major, Stats will be more useful.</p>

<p>If you would prefer not to take too many courses on line, is there a community college nearby you could attend? Or could you get together with a tutor regularly (eg. once a week) to go over materials with you? Much of the correspondence can be done via email, though, of course, labs are a different matter altogether.</p>

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<p>If you do choose to take BC, the Stanford Epgy course was NOT a good experience for my D. She did the second half on her own (even though they had offered their instruction gratis after their screwups in the fall) and did fine (5). (The school listed the class as BC first semester, and IS for Independent Study the second semester.)</p>

<p>Online courses are only as good as their graders and tutors. When they fail (and fail they did), no computer will save the course. D did much better with a book and some calls to her old calc teacher, and some conversations with the non BC certified calc teacher at school. </p>

<p>Depending on your major (history) requirements and future plans I might differ with marite. D gets 8 hours of math credit and it allows her to take stat as her only math, freeing her up to take more science courses in varied fields that interest her intellectually (as a bio pre-med electives are few).</p>

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<p>Vegangirl - I think that going to unusual lengths to create a demanding curriculum that exceeds the norm for your school would generally be a big positive on an application. My daughter had to do Spanish I as an independent study - not nearly as ambitious as what you propose - in order to free up her schedule to do Calculus I and II at the local college, since Calculus isn't offered at our county's public HS. During her interview with the college that she'll be attending this fall, she was told that the college expects its students to be independent and goal-oriented. She responded with the story of what she had to do in HS to create a curriculum that went beyond the minimums required for our in-state publics. She felt that her illustration of self-motivation was well-received by her interviewer, and as things turned out, it must have worked for her.</p>

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<p>My d attended arts hs too--- and ended up getting into 12/13 schools she applied to. I am worried about you getting that much done sr year in online courses. You don't want to sign up for stuff and then have to write to colleges after your app is in and tell them you dropped it. Online courses can be previewed usually, and I would encourage you to do that to see if you can handle it. One my d previewed simply looked too dry. Another was awesome because the online lectures were very interesting to her. </p>

<p>One admissions rep (Berkeley) told d to make sure her applications essay talked about arts hs mandatory arts courses, and explain what she did to fulfill her own academic objectives. He said they were familiar with that circumstance, and they do make allowances for it. (I guess it worked, as she got in there). My d added to her hs work by taking 5 college courses-- one Berkeley online course (that went very well, as it was her passion and she had 6 months to complete it), 2 summer college courses, and two senior year. My d took courses that she thought she would do well in, that suited her strengths, and was able to get A's and Bs in them (which is also key). </p>

<p>What about doing a mix/match of online and community college classes?
Can you go to the local jc for one course each semester of sr year? Would your school allow an exception and let you drop one arts course in order to make time for that (d's school did that for her)? Here in cali, a one-semester college course is regarded as a full-year AP course in the h.s. gpa and on the UC application. Therefore, it raises weighted gpa and class rank too. I would recommend having the courses added to the transcript after they are completed (we had a transcript sent to her counselor before the mid-year grade reports were due to the selective colleges). </p>

<p>There is no doubt that the highly selective schools where we asked (Stanford, USC, UCLA, Berkeley, etc) all wanted to see ap calc, especially if math was needed for your major. Other schools not as selective just wanted 4 years of math (which my d already had). The best way to know if you REALLY need it is to call and ask the schools on your list. </p>

<p>If you are heading away from math, take a class that suits your strengths-- your passions-- and is a typical first year college class (psychology, poli sci, sociology, shakespeare if you're a great writer, etc.) This might give you something to write essays about for applications. For example, d took a psych course that had a chicano emphasis and wrote about that experience (as she is not urm, it was an interesting experience). Also, her psych class involved both research and service learning outside of the classroom, so that was also interesting to write about.</p>

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<p>parents-
Thank you so much! I may be able to take one course at a community college, though transportation is an issue since right now I don't have a car. The funny thing is, at my school college courses actually count as UNWEIGHTED credit, and bring one's GPA down. Crazy, I know. I discovered this taking two college classes last year.</p>

<p>Anyway, I'm so thankful for all your feedback. It gives me lots to think over, and makes me much less stressed about this whole situation. So thank you again!</p>

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<p>Since you are taking demanding arts classes, and since you propose to take 4 AP classes anyways, your schedule is NOT easy IMO. Hard arts classes plus 4 APs is not easy IMO.</p>

<p>Your 5 in AB as a junior shows perfectly well that you are a capable if not excellent math student. IMO, take the APs that your school offers and that you can schedule. If your school does not offer BC, IMO colleges will not hold that against you.</p>

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<p>vegangirl, see if I have my facts straight. You have some APs already (maybe History, language, AB calc) and a couple of college courses. You are taking higher level art courses this year. You have come in 3rd, 2nd and this year 1st in National History Day competition. You attended TASP this summer. You will be a National Merit Finalist with a PSAT of 225. Your GPA/rank/test scores are at the higher end. You actively participate in leadership positions of a couple of organizations at your HS. And all this while attending a so-so HS. If I have my facts straight, I don't think any admissions counselor would see what you perceive as a lighter schedule on your agenda and immediately scream slacker. Colleges understand that high achievers can max out their schools offerings by senior year. They understand that it is not always possible for students to attend a local college during senior year for a variety of reasons (lack of transportation, schedule conflict, school district regulations, financial constraints, etc). They also can frequently pick up when a student is taking courses just to impress a particular college and that may negate some of the things you have done that say you have gone to great lengths to find challenge yourself and meet your own academic objectives.</p>

<p>If you do take a cc course, maybe you could do something like a higher level History that's of interest to you. You may find a night course that only meets one or two nights a week to cut down on the transportation problem. Look for at least one course, either online or at local college that feeds the passion in history, writing or political science. If you feel your guidance counselor is really no help for students applying to top colleges, then you may have to guide her/him. Talk with them and ask them to explain your schedule conflicts and what you have done to challenge yourself once you exhausted the options available at your school. Ask them to speak to the required arts curriculum that caused some of the conflict. Give them a written letter explaining these things if you feel that will help them more. </p>

<p>It's your senior year. Take time to enjoy it some. Given your current accomplishments, a slightly less demanding schedule probably won't affect you that much, particularly if you can work with the guidance counselor to explain the reasons for it.</p>

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<p>My daughter also attended an arts magnet high school where a large part of her school day was dedicated to mandatory arts classes; there was only room for 5 academic classes at most in any year. The school was also very weak in math and sciences, and my d. ended up graduating with only 3 years of high school math (through advanced algebra) and 2 years of lab science (bio & chem), plus conceptual physics her senior year because that was all she could fit in. No APs available at her school in math or sciences. My d. studied abroad for a semester, but did not take any online courses or college courses outside of high school.</p>

<p>My d. got into 9 of 12 colleges she applied to, including Barnard, U. of Chicago, NYU, UC Berkeley -- all big reaches for her. She plans to pursue her art (dance) in college, but not as a major. </p>

<p>Her high school has a pretty good record of grads getting into top schools, despite the weaknesses in math & sciences, so I really think that the colleges evaluate kids coming from arts high schools by a different standard appropriate to their curriculum -- this seems to be the same as the experience reported by theocmom above. Arts are important too, and certainly valued by colleges -- and most arts high school graduates bring with them a talent and a history of passion and dedication to their chosen art. </p>

<p>So whatever you do, please don't think that you have to take advanced classes not offered by your high school in order to be competitive for a top college. In some ways, you might do better to simply choose the courses that interest you most, and avoid overscheduling just to look good for colleges. If you have open periods in your high school day because of scheduling issues, then I certainly think it makes sense to fill them with online courses -- but keep in mind that your biggest selling points for college admissions are your strengths and talents. Unless you plan a shift in focus in college to a math/science oriented major, I don't think it's particularly important to go for the hardest possible APs in those areas.</p>

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<p>Vegangirl,</p>

<p>Most schools have a list of recommended courses that a student should take. See how your coursework matches up to their. For example Harvard states(not that you may be looking to attend Harvard, but many schools look for the same kind of preparation):</p>

<p>An ideal four-year preparatory program includes
four years of English, with extensive practice in writing;
four years of math;
four years of science: biology, chemistry, physics, and an advanced course in one of these subjects;
three years of history, including American and European history;
four years of one foreign language. </p>

<p>You will also be evaluated based on taking the most rigerous curriculum your school offers and doing well.</p>

<p>IMHO, you would be better served taking AP Bio than the AP psych/ environmental science combo (moreso if you don't have the bio, chem physics). </p>

<p>If your school does not offer Calc BC, don't sweat it, take AP Stat </p>

<p>If you are going to take a community college course in anything, I would recommend it be foreign language (especially if you don't have 4 years) as you would be hard pressed to find a selective school that does not have a foreign language requirement. If the course can be transcripted where your get H.S. credit, then do that.</p>