<p>Exactly. The idea that familial support is connected with money is mind-boggling to me. Our dil has had very complicated pregnancies. Our ds has had younger siblings fly out to stay with her and watch a toddler. We have had our grandkids move in with us for weeks. </p>
<p>We can’t support them financially. But we are family and we do whatever we can to support each other in all the ways we are capable of doing.</p>
<p>Is her family awful for not providing what we do? Not at all. Her parents both work full-time as do all of her siblings. (she doesn’t have young siblings like our ds does.) Expecting her family to help would be unrealistic b/c they simply don’t have the ability to be available like we do.</p>
<p>I think the focus on paying for something like college as a sign of familial bonding is just completely off.</p>
<p>^^^“Families need to be supportive no matter how old/ young the members are”. This was exactly my point.</p>
<p>Times have changed as far as 18 year olds being able to put themselves through school while working part-time. In my generation, I had to do that because my parents had a houseful of children and they couldn’t really help, although I lived at home and they provided housing, meals and support until I could live with roommates.</p>
<p>My daughter’s HS friend “Jae” was admitted to Berkeley for fall 2012 admission. It was the only school she was admitted to because she also attempted the IVIES and the local UC but didn’t get in. (She didn’t apply to our local cal states). Jae was told by her parents that they wouldn’t pay for Berkeley, so Jae attempted to try to find scholarships to attend. </p>
<p>The family’s income made Jae ineligible for most of the need-based scholarships and the merit scholarships were too competitive. She was desperate to go to Berkeley and started asking us, parents of her friends, for loans. We all had children going to their campuses and we couldn’t/wouldn’t help. </p>
<p>During semester breaks, my daughter’s group of friends would meet but couldn’t discuss their schools in front of Jae since this would cause Jae to become extremely upset (tears). Jae called me once, after a group get-together, to ask why some parents were so supportive of their children and others weren’t. I didn’t know what to say and that’s exactly what I told her.</p>
<p>In the end, Jae went to the local community college and was recently admitted to the local UCSD. Which is what her parents originally wanted. They will be paying for her education, but the cost is high because “Jae” is a very bitter child. She is not on speaking terms with her parents and has her brother speak to them for her. </p>
<p>At a recent group get-together, Jae told my daughter that as soon as she is employed, she is moving as far away as she can from her parents. I don’t know if that will really happen, but I somehow believe some of that to be true.</p>
<p>TBH, I think Jae has some attitude problem. What’s wrong with CC and UCSD?
My daughter has plenty of friends that due to financial reason or what not are going to CC and plan to transfer to top UCs, bitter, no.</p>
Is it possible that the real “problem” between her and her parents is that she does not want to live close to her parents all along (even before applying to college), but her parents do not want her to go far away for college?</p>
<p>Our own child went thousands miles away for college, but we are aware that some parents may not want their child to go far away for college. Paying tuitions or not is a totally different issue for these parents.</p>
<p>Our child told us that at least two girls he knew of at his college had a very strained relationship with their parents, and would like to be as far away from their parents as they could.</p>
<p>I would never expect a family to pay more than they can comfortably afford. If staying in-state is what they can manage, or if community college is where their budget is comfortable, than of course that is fine. I do take issue with parents who will not cooperate with completing forms for their children’s FA. And I do vehemently disagree with parents who have the attitude that once their kids are 18 they should be independent and self-supporting. I do not see that as realistic in today’s world. It is those types of situations I was referring to. If the parents essentially kick the kids out at 18, why would the kids feel an obligation to assist their elderly parents years later? </p>
<p>Well, the parents did support them until they were 18 so if we are doing the payback thing there was some investment in the kids. But, I agree with those who say payback is a bizarre way to operate a family relationship. Also , most 17-year olds have no idea what their family really can or cannot afford. Getting mad about it is slightly immature.</p>
<p>It depends on the individual, but many don’t pay because they don’t want to be responsible for their adult children or they believe the children will become more responsible, grounded, and grateful individuals if they pay their own way. However, it should be noted that for children who are heading off to college and are not emancipated, it is the parents’ finances that determine how much federal and school need-based aid the child will receive. So if a parent can help pay and doesn’t, it really is hurting the child, because they will receive little aid, despite having a low personal income. While it is not a requirement to pay for your child, you might consider (based on individual circumstances) investing in your child and their higher education. There is no obligation, but talk to your child early on to let them know what will be available and what they must do to contribute. </p>
<p>When I went to school in the eighties, paying for college as a student was somewhat feasible. In today’s world, I think a child needs adult support and assistance. If you can’t contribute substantially to your child’s education with twenty plus years of work experience and time to save, how do you expect an eighteen year old to go it alone? Of course, that doesn’t mean supporting private OOS options, but I think a state flagship tuition is a reasonable target level of support. Supporting a child for eighteen years is nice and all, but realistically they didn’t ask to be brought into the world. Parents choose to have children, and to the best of one’s ability, I think emotional support and a reasonable education are moral, albeit not legal, obligations. </p>
<p>There is a difference between not filing for FAFSA, or get kicked out at 18 and not getting to attend your dream school whatever it maybe. I know for my nephews and nieces, they will be making nice salary as doctors, last I’ve heard in the 1/2 million per year income, how is that not investing in your child philosophy is beyond me.</p>
<p>" She was desperate to go to Berkeley and started asking us, parents of her friends, for loans. We all had children going to their campuses and we couldn’t/wouldn’t help" Pretty audacious of a child to ask the parents of her friends for loans. “Jae called me once, after a group get-together, to ask why some parents were so supportive of their children and others weren’t. I didn’t know what to say and that’s exactly what I told her.” I would have told her people had different opinions about the value of very expensive colleges over less expensive colleges, she had only one set of parents and it was up to her to accept Life as it was rather than how she wanted it to be. . . “the cost is high because “Jae” is a very bitter child. She is not on speaking terms with her parents and has her brother speak to them for her.” She sounds like a spoiled brat. In the end, it is her life and she can choose to be happy or can choose to be embittered. Entitlement syndrome is never pretty.</p>
<p>I am paying for my kids to attend State Schools. If they had applied to more elite colleges they would have been on their own because they are not elite college material. Simple as that. Nothing mandates that a kid need go right to college out of High School. If they have a “dream college” they want to attend, and they are on their own, perhaps they should join the military . . and work to have the military pay for their education. Kids will resent their parents or not depending on that child’s personality and sense of entitlement, not what the parents did for the kids after they became adults.</p>
<p>We will do what we can for our kids but also won’t take substantial risks to our own financial future. We’ve been quite frank with our oldest (going into senior year of HS) that he not the only sibling and we have to protect or retirement future or we might end up living with him down the road! </p>
<p>I’ve seen all extremes from friends and family - from full coverage without a penny of debt, to the opposite end of parents who don’t give a dime, either because they just can’t or just won’t. The ones who won’t either 1) think it’s an important life lesson that the student learn or 2) don’t think college is necessary because they didn’t go themselves. Hopefully most families can find a balance of some assistance and reasonable student debt, all the while have very open discussions about the reasons why. </p>
<p>Without knowing what financial situation Jae’s parents are in, it’s hard to say anything. If they have an 8-figure net worth but refuse to help financially, then I think they are selfish. If they can only afford CC+state school, then Jae is an entitled brat. It could be comething in between as well. If it was more a distance issue, then I think the parents are wrong as well. </p>
<p>What is clearly the case is that Jae and her parents really have some communication problems. If the parents refuse to pay for Cal, then why did she apply to Ivies (unless they changed their minds)?</p>
<p>Not the college of their choice, but a financial contribution to make an in state college education feasible without undue hardship. Some parents won’t be able to do that because of circumstances beyond their control, but it is a reasonable goal to bear in mind when you have a baby. If you want to live a lifestyle beyond your means so that you can’t put away 40k/child over the course of twenty years to cover four years of in state tuition, maybe don’t have kids or have fewer kids. The kids on here mostly have the talent to make a go of it on their own through merit, but that’s really not readily available to the vast majority of kids. </p>
<p>Okay, not every baby born needs to go away to a four year school. In fact, the vast majority don’t and won’t. In fact, many successful parents didn’t and don’t see it as essential. Jae shouldn’t be asking friends parents for loans though. Tacky. Tacky. Tacky. And, it’s pretty tough to argue CC to UCSD is an undue hardship. Also, suggesting that you shouldn’t have kids if you can’t save 40K over their lifetimes is going to decrease the population considerably and spark some interesting political debates. Good grief.</p>
<p>True not every kid is cut out for college or deserves to go, but the only downside of saving for it is that you end up having some extra money on hand to fund some other life goal I.e. retirement. To me, it makes sense to plan and think through ahead when your children are tiny and the savings can be more modest and benefit from compound interest. </p>
<p>Agree that Jae’s situation does not fit the obligation I am discussing. Her options seem reasonable to me though it is hard to say without knowing what communications transpired prior to applying to college. With the info provided, it seems as though she was very disappointed, but it isn’t all that clear how it got to that point. Are the costs of UCSD actually different than UC Berkeley? I guess I would have thought they were close. I really have no idea. </p>
<p>P.s. I don’t think it will be long before we say every baby born does need a college degree except for the Bill Gates types who are so brilliant they can self educate. It is increasingly a knowledge based economy, and I think a college degree will be the bar for lots of jobs that don’t actually use the degree, but use it as a minimum criteria for hiring. </p>
<p>@purpletitan- I know a family like you just described (not 8 figure net worth, but into the 7 figures). Said they would just pay for state school (which was fine), but when it was time for the child to go to graduate school, the child was on her own. The parents gave the child zero, so the child took on a lot of debt and worked all the time - library, lab, waitressing at school events, grading exams, etc.</p>
<p>At the same time, mom and dad were going out and buying a brand new cabin cruiser that could have paid for a good part of grad school. Even if they had just given their child a few hundred a month toward food, etc. that would have helped a lot.</p>
<p>Child has never forgotten this.</p>
<p>(Them not helping at all had nothing to do with trying to maximize financial aid or anything like that.)</p>
You must be kidding. D2 has a friend who’s attending UCB, the parents gave them $8K for the total 4 years. Wonderful and sweet kid. I don’t think I could tell the parents not to have this kid while there are so many spoiled brats out there.
How about this? If you are going to have kids, make sure they don’t turn into entitled spoiled brats, if not, please don’t have them, the world needs less bitter people. I know it’s a tall order but the same goes with your statement.</p>