There can also be a difference in schools parents are willing to really stretch for and those they are not. And, to some extent, it may depend on the kid and the kind of student they are. A parent may be much more willing to stretch for a studious kid to go to an elite college over a public than to be full pay at a lower level “party school” for their social, but not very studious kid. This is one reason why some schools are losing students. Several small schools with big tuition in my state have seen very big drops in enrollment - parents are not willing to pay $60K for those schools when cheaper options are available.
Parents also may be more willing to pay for a school that offers a very good specialized program and for the serious student that has that need a specific kind of school.
We did not set a dollar amount. We told them that full pay private was unlikely, unless we hit the lottery or something. But that private with merit or some OOS publics would be in the range. There are usually a range of relatively affordable decent colleges for good students. None of my kids went to their first choice college - due to cost. There was nothing about the full pay schools that was worth the extra money. With the way that health insurance and health care costs are rising so quickly, I am really glad we did not stretch even further for college.
Part of the problem with the finances talk is that too many parents have no idea what costs and financing are involved in putting even a single child through undergrad. I have talked with quite a few a parents who attended the FA seminars provided at school, really nuts and bolts stuff mainly centered on FAFSA and what kind of funding sources are available in those seminars, but few really had any idea after that how expensive college has become, what COA really means and what all of the other terms and phrases like “meets need” might mean, and as noted, that one can have a dozen or more different meanings depending on the schools in question.
For those who are still in the process, but aren’t the type to research the heck out of things and join CC on their own, I have at least opened some eyes and ears for them to start asking more questions of their GC and of the schools their kids are interested in.
What really shocked me where I work and especially where my wife works, was how many people pretty much put their kids through college on ParentPlus loans, because by the time their child made their choice and the reality of what school costs came home to roost, they almost felt, or were lead to believe, that PP loans are basically the new normal. The numbers I hear people took out in loans for undergrad simply blows me away, and none of that takes into account that grad or professional school to follow really is the new norm. People who saved up what they thought was a nice nest egg for college find it consumed in the first year, but still don’t qualify for much FA and the loans start getting taken out like crazy, because as hard as it is to tell your kid that you can’t afford their dream school, it is immensely harder I imagine to tell them that you could afford it for one year, but now you can’t.
In many cases the ‘be honest’ part of this thread involves the parents becoming educated and informed enough about college costs to be knowledgably honest with themselves, otherwise their honest talk with their child may not be as accurate or workable as they think.
I have been very clear about how much we saved (and how challenging it was to do it) D16 knew going in that her choice could come down to (after merit of course) 1) least expensive tier =no debt, new car 2) middle tier= no debt my 5 year old car or 3) expensive tier= student loan, working and cheap used car. She is choosing 2.
@Skates76 your third paragraph was a shocker for me as well. Many are watching/hoping for the COA increases to level off or “burn out” as more families are driven to state schools or those offering more merit aid. If PP loans become the new normal, what will stop the tuition spiral?
Skates- I am not surprised because so many people have no idea what stuff costs in general. I’ve got new employees on my team, and the benefits reps can walk them through their options day and night and people still make stupid choices. They pass up “free” money (the 401K match). They over-insure for small amounts (i.e. folks who buy the extended warranty on a camera at Best Buy- but have no life insurance). They buy huge engagement rings to put on a credit card but don’t bother to figure out what the ring actually costs once they’ve paid for it a few years from now. They spend every paycheck on dinners out or drinks with friends, and then complain when they get a significant raise at work that “it’s all going to the government”. Check your marginal tax rate- it’s not all going to the government- but you are living a life you can’t afford- that’s the real issue.
I’ve got a neighbor who buys every toy imaginable. Jeep for his teenage kid “it’s an investment” (no it’s not- it depreciated once you drove it off the lot.) Fancy kitchen “it’s for building equity” (no it’s not- taking out a loan against the value of your house to have the nicest kitchen on the block doesn’t build equity). The newest audio/computer/gaming equipment “it will pay out because we’ll stay home every weekend instead of eating out” (how’s that working for you?)
People are financially illiterate. They don’t plan for the future and they think there is a financial aid fairy and a retirement fairy. And they refuse to level with their kids.
Thanks everyone. I re-ran some of the NPCs this morning, taking my oldest kid out of college (a junior this year). Oh, that hurt. I thought I had already run those numbers, but apparently not!
I am also surprised by people borrowing to put their kids through very expensive schools. One coworker is an MIT educated engineer with a masters, so he’s a very smart man. Yet he has borrowed significantly to put his three daughters through college. All attended expensive private schools at full pay. He has been telling me about all his loans and how he will never be able to retire. I told him I am planning to retire in 7 years, when my youngest gets through undergrad. He asked how I will be able to pay the loans and was shocked when I told him that we weren’t taking any out. We have been very clear with our D what the budget is, and it is not $60k/yr. She is choosing her schools accordingly. We expect our son to do the same when his turn comes.
This thread is a great reminder. We’ve been clear for years about what we will pay- so our two know that if they want to go out of state then they need merit.
Now that the EA decisions have rolled in, it’s pretty hard to even justify spending $3k/year over the lowest cost offer! I imagine what I would do with that extra $. That being said, $3k isn’t much, so we won’t get into any horrible arguments about one over the other. My kid will wait until April before we sit down and work towards a decision together.
Dh, on the other hand, still holds on to the idea that the Ivies will actually extend merit aid to our son. I’ve learned to chuckle quietly to myself rather than correct him. We won’t be making the $65k/year work anyway so he can have his daydream.
I was guessing one of her top choice selective schools would deny her admission. Nope. She got admitted. If the FA package is not enough money, we will have to say no. It’s not the end of the world (says the adult). If we have to say no come April, I don’t know if it will console her that at least she was accepted, or if it would have been better to have not applied in the first place.
I know I’d feel better if we were comparing outrageous costs vs. great deals. But, we’re looking at just enough of a difference to make it POSSIBLE, but so uncomfortable.
@ucbalumnus The question was not for me, but we have been vague about a dollar amount, and said we needed to hunt down the full tuition or near full tuition waivers.
Presumably, this means that the student needs to qualify for something in http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/ (or similar scholarships at in-state public schools for in-state students only), or a similarly low net price from need-based financial aid, to find a safety?
Our DD is NMSF, very likely NMF, and as part of the school selection process those schools with automatic NMF awards and schools where she would be competitive for large amounts of merit were a large piece of the school list weeding/screening criteria. She is not being punished for achieving (likely) NMF status, but as was explained to her over the years, she has not been required to get an after school or summer job, in large part because she used those hours and months to attend to academically enriching activities, many of which required us to pay her way to attend them. We also footed the bill for her to visit at least 15 schools that she had interest in. We dropped our initial insistence that she apply to one of the local state schools once we knew she had NMSF stats. The deal was made clear early on that if she wasn’t going to work because she intended to concentrate on academics, then merit aid was going to be a priority when the time came to start looking at schools. We visited so many schools so that she could find places that fit our financial criteria AND that she really liked.
Are we insisting that she take the full-ride or very nearly full ride offers that she has from two NMF schools? No, but if she leaves a full-ride on the table she knows the exact formula for how the rest will be paid. Through work or unsubsidized loans she has to match what we pay dollar for dollar, an exact 50/50 split and limited to how much she can earn or borrow, with no private or PP loans even a consideration. In this process we have tried to be fair, honest, and thrifty and to teach her about those same qualities. Fortunately DD is a thrifty girl at heart and knows she wants to go on to further education at the professional or graduate level and doesn’t want any undergrad loans. She has three great offers (one of her NMF schools actually came through with a departmental award to stack on top of their full tuition offer to make it almost a full ride), including two from schools that are in her top three, and are waiting to hear from the last of her top three on what they will offer.
The one unexpected cost is what I will be paying going forward is the chiropractor for work on the cranky lower back I developed on all of those epic school visit/tour trips ouch
This is one of the reasons to apply ED to the more expensive school. If you’re accepted, your parents will never know whether you could have gotten that free ride.
Do you really not respect your family at all ? Or are they worth $10M (and thrifty so they would make you go to some 3rd tier school rather than Harvard) ? Do you have a trust fund (and want to burn through $300K of it) ?
Do you realize they could have easily leased one or two Cadillacs every year, bought a more expensive home, eaten at top restaurants on date night (with an expensive sitter), gone on expensive vacations … and saved not one hot red cent for your education ?
And then, since they can’t afford long term care insurance and don’t have any savings they can come live with you when they are old and sick …
If my kid had considered doing that, they would be doing a stint at community college working part-time minimum wage jobs so they could see how exactly much $70K is. Of course, I am also not a complete dummy, so knew what we were getting into … come on cost of attendance is a simple google lookup, often shows up all by its lonesome in all it’s glory, including out-of-state supplements.
@ucbalumnus Yes, junior year, we were 99% certain our kid would be named a National Hispanic Scholar, so we started with that; hunting down schools with big offers for NHS. Then, after her fall ACT, we went on the hunt for GPA + Test Scores automatic merit awards. That’s how we began to build our long list. She added in one dream school that “meets 100% need”, a reach for acceptance & financial. She added in two others with competitive full tuition scholarships. We ended up with our short list that way.
We have had multiple conversations over the last several years about how to pay for college. Those conversations have gotten more specific as college has gotten closer. DS has a budget to shop with and knows there will be no PP loans. It really does seem to be hard for him to grasp how much money this could all be. Each time an offer has come he asks me again how well it does or does not fit the budget. I try to put the cost differences in real terms like “that is more than the price of our first house” or that is annual tuition equivalent to two cars like X" and he still struggles. Parents really need to take on this role. NPC should be rerun each time the school updates it to be based upon the next year’s tuition. Also look for scholarships that can go up with tuition or at least plan for the balance the student pays to go up each year.