It’s important to remember that high school seniors rarely have experience with money decisions that involve more than a few hundred – or maybe in some cases, a few thousand – dollars. They lack the perspective on larger money decisions that adults take for granted.
When my son was a high school senior, the biggest money decision he had ever had to make was whether to spend some of his earnings from his part-time job to get a better computer. I think this was about a thousand-dollar decision. How could he understand what’s involved in paying for four years of college?
Some high school students are pretty savvy. So, don’t say “we can’t afford it” when what you really mean is “we can afford it, but for our own reasons, we choose not to spend that much money on your education.” Be honest, and don’t wait until the last minute to explain your philosophy. I think the sooner you share your philosophy of education spending with your kids, the more likely they are to buy in to that philosophy themselves.
I’ll refer to a quote from an Internet forum on personal finance that I frequent. I wish I could name it because they refer people with college financial questions to CC by name.
The advice there is that the best gift you can give your child is not necessarily a pricey education. It is a parent they do not have to support financially in retirement because they failed to provide for themselves. It is like putting your oxygen mask on first. Of course some people can do both, but most cannot. I see a lot of people saving too little for retirement thinking they will work forever but reality eventually hits. How many people tell their kids “we can afford it but we might need to live with you in your 40s or 50s because we afforded it.”
We had a spreadsheet to compare costs, npcs gave estimates where possible (our situation was a difficult one with respect to those), and for actual offers as they came in. We had columns for tuition, fees, r&b, books, travel and a total, then columns for merit scholarships, need-based grants then a net cost, then sub and unsub loans and an out of pocket if they took loans column.
I didn’t say they had to take the lowest cost offer or attach a dollar amount but they knew cost would be key, and they could control cost themselves only to the degree they wanted to take out Stafford loans/contribute summer earnings.
S took the best offer at his second choice school, D took a top choice that was also best offer, but she took 3 weeks in April to decide between it and a school that would have been $7-10K more per year.
If the student is suggesting he or she take out big loans, one thing that may help is to show how that will impact their future. My son was considering not going with his very good merit off, where he would only need the Stafford loan, and since the schools were comparable (bigger merit school in less desirable location), he would have had to fund the rest. We figured out the monthly loan payment, and anticipated rent, food, other living expenses and how much of a bite that would take out of a starting salary paycheck. He finally got it, and had a great 4 years at his merit money school and was glad to have only minimal payments once he graduated.
I haven’t read this entire thread, but it bears repeating that if you are one of two parents in a two-parent household, you need to have this discussion with your spouse, AT LENGTH, FIRST. Spouse and I did not do this, probably because each of us assumed the other would agree with what was rolling around in each of our own heads. As a result, we have inadvertently presented a fragmented and a definitely non-united front to our 11th grade D. Moreover, it has lead to a bit of marital discord that could have easily been avoided if we sat down with one another first.
@ohiovalley16 I borrowed that analogy from the other forum. I take no credit. I like it too. My kids love me but they don’t really want me living in their basements.
@ignoramusdad It is easy to get mixed messages when the message is coming from two people. As questions become more specific, you find that you weren’t on the same page even though you thought you were.
@ignoramusdad In a perfect world! Like other couples I know, we are comprised of a somewhat pessimistic saver and an optimist everything will work out spender. I’m the former, my husband is the latter. We have an agreement that I’ll control the finances, but he is often not happy with my thrifty cautious ways. I think the kids know I’m the buzz kill.
In our house my wife is the spender most of the time and I am the thrifty one. We came to a pretty quick accord on college though, which surprised me because she was always resentful of her parents not sending her to the schools she wanted to attend (she is the youngest of eight, not much money left for college then even at the more reasonable prices when we were younger). The really great thing is that both of our kids are super thrifty too, Mom hates taking them shopping because they are always telling her not to buy things. The dynamic has worked out quite well in the college process so far, with my normally loose with money other half actually being taking the slightly harder line than I have on school financing. I think it helped a lot that Ms. Skates completed her BS and MS as an adult, so was in school very recently and knows the lay of the financial land and what does and doesn’t translate to better pay at work.
Then I am you @Midwest67 . Spouse and I were on same page at one point [her]" Let D apply to wherever she wants and let’s see where the scholarship $$ come out; if it’s not comparable to in-state costs then D will stay in-State." It has morphed to, “We should do whatever we can do give D opportunity to go out-of-state for college even if tuition is double of in-state, what’s the difference between $25K and $35K per year for tuition, room, and board?” Well the differences are that the OOS options D likes are lesser schools than the in-state options and she wants to go to medical school. It adds up, no?
@Skates76 My spouse had to stay in state as a collegiate due to no $$ but desperately wanted to go OOS. Remarkably, spouse is campaigning hard for D to be able to go to same State that she could not go to many years ago.
DD has been awesome about the financial aspects of the selection process. She understands the need for merit to keep her from taking loans out, especially now that she is thinking medical school in time and all of those loans.
The one thing I am dreading a bit is visiting the in-laws, some of whom are wonderfully supportive, but others keep telling her and us that she isn’t reaching enough for elite schools with her stats. The worst one is married to a tiger Mom (third marriage for him) who has a step son going to Johns Hopkins full pay thanks to a generous grandfather after attending a pricey Boston area prep school. Oy!
^^^ Does that mean those opinionated individuals will partially fund her attendance at the elite schools? No? I would be so tempted to throw that question out just to see the reactions.
This is such an important thread. I have learned so much about the financing part of higher education from this website, and advise all of my friends who have seniors (and juniors and sophomores) to really think about this part and lay it out for their kids. It’s a hard sell though.
The Parents Forum always reminds me why I’m not sure I want to have children, lol. (I say that jokingly. I think you are all some of the most thoughtful people on the planet.)
Nobody here said that UG education wasn’t important, but the little evidence that does exist shows the opposite: students who could’ve gotten into a top-tier school but chose instead to go somewhere else have similar outcomes (and salaries) to students who did go to the fancy school. Of course, in either case, it’s a personal choice. I went to graduate school at a fancy Ivy, and I’m not denying the potential it can hold for the undergraduate students.
There are also lots of threads on here about parents who spent many years forgoing trips or new cars or a bigger house so they could put money in the college fund. I sincerely admire their perseverance! But I think that’s a personal choice, too. Some parents may think it’s better to be able to take their kids to Europe a couple times during their childhood or buy them a car at graduation - and then send them to UW or Washington State or Western Washington. I have my own opinions about what I’d rather do, but I don’t think one is objectively better or worse than the other.
Excellent points @julliet. The bottom line is that GRADUATING from ANY college “will pay for itself over and over again” when the student can attend that college with no debt or the least amount of debt feasible. An education is not necessarily job training, and what that education “pays” the individual may not be only measureable in dollars. Students lose ground in the potential pay off of their education when they don’t complete their degree and/or when they (and their parents) have to borrow extensively to attend in the first place. A student who attends an expensive top tier private school that is a stretch to afford in the first place and quits is not going to end up with an experience that “pays for itself over and over again.”
The point of this thread is to warn parents to be honest about college finances with their applicant children before their child applies to college and not the endless debate as to whether or not an elite education is better than a lower tier one. The reality is that there are loads of families that can’t afford an elite education even if their kids get in, and those particular applicants can make better decisions about where to apply if they know that in the first place. Then that student actually has an affordable school to go to when May 1 rolls around.
