<p>In the job market? For grad school? On this bb, I realize there aren't too many parents of young adults who have graduated form college, but what the h***.</p>
<p>It's hard to know what influences outcomes, but my daughter, a 2004 grad of Brown, has had good outcomes in her pursuits of jobs/higher ed. A psych major, she was able to land a job at an inpatient facility as a mental health worker after graduation, and was accepted this past spring at several PhD and PsyD programs in clinical psych (5 in all), where the acceptance rates tend to be very low.</p>
<p>Donemom, did Brown's career center or counselors help your daughter?</p>
<p>dstark,</p>
<p>I am virtually certain that my daughter's undergrad school faculty and undergrad experience helped her get a fellowship in a doctoral program at UPenn; she attended Swarthmore as an undergrad, and the proximity to Penn and connections between the faculties at Swat and Penn are pretty close. She did very well at Swarthmore as well, and the school was extremely nurturing of her as she pursued two different majors.</p>
<p>No. The internship which became a job was in a community near us, which she found out about on her own. She then took the GRE's (studying on her own) and applied to grad school during her year after graduation.</p>
<p>How would one MEASURE whether the undergrad school "made a difference"? There are so many variables. There has been a study done that is commented on in either "Gatekeepers" or similar book, where it shows that there are many folks who went to colleges without "brand name" that have done great while others who went to HYPs did not.</p>
<p>In my niece's case, she graduated from UCDavis & wanted to attend law school. She took the LSATs & applied to several law schools & got into her 1st choice--the state law school, as well as another private law school. My friend's daughter graduated from Stanford, took the LSATs & got into the law schools she applied to.
I went to UOregon & got into two of the law schools I applied to & went to UCDavis, where I had a GREAT experience & was hired at a top local law firm. </p>
<p>Some of the most brilliant folks I know went to state schools--UMichigan & others & have gone on to great grad schools & stellar careers. My friend's daughter is at UWashington & has had a great time there & gotten a great internship where she's earning $27/hour + credit!</p>
<p>So much seems to depend on the individual student--sure there are lots of opportunities at the HYPs, but also more competition there (my hubby & I call it the "big fish in BIG POND" or "big fish in smaller pond" issue). In other words, sometimes you shine more if you're not surrounded by folks who overshadow you than if you're just one of many brilliant folks at HYP. Anyway, that's my take on the situation.</p>
<p>I guess I have to chime in to say that as a proud mother of a UCSD student, I have to admit that my own law firm would not consider his classmates or graduates from a UC law school, even Boalt kids do not gain employment here. Simply, those from the top 7 law schools have a chance. Can't say I endorse this, but it has been that way for long before I got here and I suspect it will be this way long past when I leave.</p>
<p>I guess I need to add that our interns make way more than $27/hr. In law, school matters. Business, too.</p>
<p>Kirmum, If a UCSD student ends up at a top 7 law school, would he have a chance of getting hired at your law firm?</p>
<p>PS By the way, your son hasn't graduated yet, so his experience doesn't fit this thread. This thread is for students who have already graduated.</p>
<p>Has the school's reputation helped the student after graduation? Have counselors at the college helped the student meet goals after college?</p>
<p>Yes, it doesn't matter where the kid went undergrad in theory, but wink, wink, we all relate best to kids from our stomping grounds! Son wants med school, he faces different deamons. Is it wasy for anyone?</p>
<p>I'm an attorney too & don't believe any of my goals were hindered because I went to UCDavis instead of HYP. I got every job I really wanted & currently have my dream job.
Brother went to Stanford undergrad, graduated with honors & got into EVERY med school he applied to + every residency & internship. Ended up with a dream job in his home state. His wife went to state U & went to state med school, ended up with a dream job in home state as well.
We can all make our own destinies--so much depends on luck & unknowns, unknowables.</p>
<p>I think the real answer to your question Dstark, is that what constitutes success at one school does not at another. What are dream jobs at HYSC law schools are not even on the radar screen at other schools. They can't be. There is very different recruiting in the spectrum of schools. So isn't the issue that it really maters what you want to do and where you want to be?</p>
<p>just a question from someone who's going to be a freshman this year...</p>
<p>I am just curious what matters more to employers: where you went for undergrad or where you went for grad school???</p>
<p>Depends on the career and the employer. The data suggest that where one goes to undergrad school is of little significance if one could conceivably been selected by an upper tier school. That is, it is the student, not the school, that determines eventual success. Further, there is a greater correlation between where one has applied and been rejected to future success than where one actually attends. </p>
<p>Grad schools on the other hand are different. Even there though, the program and faculty (and their network) is more important than a particular school in finding good employment, particularly at the university. In the last 20 years not a single person has asked where I went to undergrad school. Graduate school yes, undergrad, no.</p>
<p>DD just graduated from a second tier state U (with honors college/NMF free ride) and got into her first choice grad school PhD program (humanities) with free ride tuition/stipend enough to live on. It was the connections she made as an undergrad that did it...well connected faculty in her major wrote good reccs,research opportunity for senior honors thesis gave the required major writing sample required for grad apps,chance to attend yearly conference in major subject where she introduced herself to faculty member at school she wanted to attend,etc.
Other friends she has from her U have gotten good results for law and medicine and other grad level programs (like physical therapy) Alot of it is your internships and connections.And your GRE scores, and your GPA!</p>
<p>S graduated from a top LAC--didn't make much difference in terms of his firsr job out of college, but made a huge difference a year later when he applied to graduate school--probably would not have gotten in to the program he did with the funding he got if not for help and recs form respected profs at his LAC, who knew knew him quite well because of the usual LAC atmosphere of working closely with students. A number of his friends applied to law school a year or two after graduating, and generally did better than expected in terms of acceptances, partly because of good LSATS but also I think because of school's reputation (most of them did not have great GPAs, mostly in the 3.3 to 3.5 range--a lot lower than they had in high school). So I woudl say that the undergraduate background was quite significant--that's not to say that a top student at a lesser school would not also have been successful) or more successful) in these areas, but the significant thing to me is that these were mid-range students at a top school.</p>
<p>30 plus years into my working life, retiring from one job and starting another, I can tell you most employers only want to know that you have a degree not where you got it from. Experience counts, much, much more than where you were from the ages of 18-21.</p>
<p>I'd like to reframe the question. My D graduated from a top LAC last year. She's working in a job that does not require a college degree, which she loves.</p>
<p>So did her college make a difference for her? Oh, absolutely! She didn't go there with the job market in mind--she knows she can always support herself, so that's not an issue. </p>
<p>But what she got was a chance to test herself as part of a student body where questioning, thinking, re-thinking, etc, was the norm, with uniformly great profs. Where what happens outside of class was important as in class. Where she learned to see endless possibilities for herself in life. Where what job you were going to get, and what competition you were going to win, were not the over-riding goals.</p>
<p>Could that happen at other schools? Of course. But it was not happening at the university she transfered away from. (It's not a private vs public thing, either, as I got that atmosphere at a wonderful, top public after transfering from a mediocre LAC.)</p>
<p>So whether it will make a difference in jobs eventually, or in grad school when she decides to go, we don't know yet. But in a million more meaningful ways, her school really helped her grow and develop herself, and so yes, it has made a difference.</p>
<p>I think the further you get from the date of graduation, putting a couple years of work in from the time you graduated the less it matters.</p>
<p>garland, I think that says more about your daughter, who sounds wonderfully mature, than about the school. For students whose perspective is less advanced, or who simply lack the qualities your daughter apparently has, I do believe the superficial benefit of having a "good" degree is a good head start. (I also fear that the ability to support oneself is in the eye of the beholder--depends upon expectations, talents, and, alas, the local economy as well.)</p>
<p>Well, Mattmom, she was much shyer and really less at home in the world before this school. It was also the first time she was challenged academically, and really had to step up to rise to the challenge. So I think it was the school, too.</p>
<p>I am sure that the degree will give her a good head start, agree with you completely there. It's just not why she went there.</p>
<p>The ability to support oneself certainly is in the eye of the beholder--both our kids know how to live cheap, and how to separate, as Thoreau would say, what you want from what you need. Which doesn't mean never getting something that you want but don't need, but first counting the cost (not just money, but time and other intangibles, too). Not wanting much gives you so many more choices in life.</p>