<p>This may have been covered before since I didn’t read all of the posts. When S1 entered his Engineering program, the Dean’s speech to the group was that he expected the class to average somewhere between a 2.5 and 2.9 GPA. He said if you’re averaging above 3.3, you’re not taking hard enough classes, and should be signing up for the harder of two sessions (for Engineers). So, expect that your son’s GPA will be lower than what you’d like. </p>
<p>When S1 went to sign up for classes, either an advisor or higher level student leader, clued the smaller group in that General Chemistry and Chemistry for Engineers were basically the same. They just made the tests harder for Engineers. So, I’d recommend your son sign up for the non-‘for Engineering’ classes if they are acceptable for the degree. It will take some pressure off of him and it won’t hurt him in advanced classes.</p>
<p>"When S1 entered his Engineering program, the Dean’s speech to the group was that he expected the class to average somewhere between a 2.5 and 2.9 GPA.“He said if you’re averaging above 3.3, you’re not taking hard enough classes, and should be signing up for the harder of two sessions (for Engineers). So, expect that your son’s GPA will be lower than what you’d like.”#141</p>
<p>I think you probably misunderstood what you heard from the Dean. My husband hired engineers for years at a major hi-tech company, and any with averages below a 3.5 went right in the trash. Most hired had 4.0 averages.</p>
<p>^"any with averages below a 3.5 went right in the trash. Most hired had 4.0 averages. "</p>
<p>Holy jamoly, Batman! 4.0 graduates in engineering? I’ve never heard THAT before!</p>
<p>“So, expect that your son’s GPA will be lower than what you’d like.”</p>
<p>For the record; HE was broken up; I was glad he passed. He was broken up for good reason though; He knows this will mean no study abroad semester in Germany, and it means being less competitive in hiring, since he feels his school is not top tier for engineering. </p>
<p>“General Chemistry and Chemistry for Engineers were basically the same. They just made the tests harder for Engineers.”</p>
<p>That’s a little scary. Are you saying they make chem for engineering harder than chem for pre meds? I noticed chem for “athletic training” was divided into two semesters. </p>
<p>"The curriculum prepares students for the National Athletic Trainers’ Association Board of Certification (BOC) examination, which is required to become a Certified Athletic Trainer (ATC).</p>
<p>Athletic training is recognized by the American Medical Association as an allied health profession. Certified Athletic Trainers are members of the National Athletic Trainers’ Association (NATA), and are medical experts in preventing, assessing, managing and rehabilitating injuries that result from physical activity. "</p>
<p>The ‘weed out’ factor may be more due to the fact that in my experience at least, the hard sciences are profit centers for the university… With all kinds of innovative techniques to (a) guarantee failure and (b) ensure courses are taken at the particular school.</p>
<p>DD1’s school has an interesting policy whereas if one repeats a course to improve a grade, the bad grade is mitigated (averaged or not counted, not sure) only if the course is taken at the same school. If one takes the same course in another college and transfers it, the credits do, but the grade does not… </p>
<p>To be blunt, feeling good about sub-3.0 GPA’s being the norm would bring into question the school’s teaching policies, not the students’ abilities. Back in my birth country we had similar failure rates in engineering school, but giving 10% A’s and 20% B’s and the like does not make one a better engineer. Better faculty, relevant courses, modern facilities, and challenging assignments make better engineers. </p>
<p>Back then we were taught the old way. Instead of a decent, comprehensive final in a tough class (say, Differential Equations) with 7-10 well rounded problems for 90 minutes we’d get 3 problems straight out of Jeopardy. If you knew the right transformation you were done in 5-10 min per problem, if you did not, you could take the entire 3 hours, or 3 days, and still not solve them. That helps bring GPA’s down and supposedly make the academics more ‘challenging’ but it did not make us any better engineers.</p>
<p>What is more profitable about teaching the sciences? Compared to math, business, humanities, and social studies courses, science courses have expensive labs to manage.</p>
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<p>There are not that many students with 4.0 GPAs in any major, so it is unlikely that a single hiring manager at one company would be cornering the entire supply (of those who seek jobs in the area, as opposed to going elsewhere or to graduate school).</p>
<p>On the other hand, the lack of grade inflation in engineering is exaggerated by many; while humanities has more grade inflation, the difference is something like 0.1 to 0.2 overall (however, the sciences, of which engineering students take a lot of as freshman and sophomores, are 0.1 to 0.2 below engineering).</p>
<p>When I was in college, both premed and engineering took the same chemistry classes. The premed guys were more annoying. They wanted to have high GPA for med schools and when they were not ready for the midterms or finals they stayed home to imform the police that there was bomb in the exam auditorium. This forced me to spend another 3 hours for the second exams (it happened twice). There was time my professor did not post the final grade after several weeks after the final exam because he wanted to track down who cheated on the test (I guess those lousy premeds again).</p>
<p>"There was time my professor did not post the final grade after several weeks after the final exam because he wanted to track down who cheated on the test (I guess those lousy premeds again). "</p>
<p>So sorry. I don’t know when and where you were in undergrad, but I’m going to guess that was not me. I made meatballs with sauce for fundraising, and did the notes for our note service. I was not aware of the need to make sure somebody else did not make it. We hoped we would ALL make it. But that was an HBCU, so…</p>
<p>“There are not that many students with 4.0 GPAs in any major, so it is unlikely that a single hiring manager at one company would be cornering the entire supply (of those who seek jobs in the area,” #146</p>
<p>What is your point? And, they were mostly graduate students. He was also not the only manager hiring. Large school, large employer.</p>
<p>My son got his BSME and MSME in 5 yrs - 3.7 average - don’t think everyone is getting those average grades.</p>
<p>Yes, except the kids had high GPAs to get into the grad schools. I still don’t understand your point. To let low performing kids know that it is OK?</p>
<p>Let’s say we call it lower than your kid, or lower than your husband’s hires; what percentage of undergraduate students with a BS in engineering from ABET schools does that reject? What percentage of students employed by virtue of their BS in engineering does that include?</p>
<p>“Holy jamoly, Batman! 4.0 graduates in engineering? I’ve never heard THAT before” - It happens. The legend we heard at Harvey Mudd was that they’ve had two. Most schools have some of them. I remember that my roommate was one of two ChemE with a 4.0 in our year. </p>
<p>Even in this bad economy many engineering students seem to be getting jobs, even without perfect GPA.</p>
<p>parent1986 - Looking back, would your son do the 5 year BSME MSME again? Was the work load tolerable? My S2 is still a eager freshmen and is talking about the 5 year BEE MSEE.</p>
<p>Kajon, yes - he is thrilled to be done, while many friends are now applying to grad school.</p>
<p>He did the coterm at Stanford, which I found out about reading CC. He didn’t start to plan for it until his junior year. He had to forgo the semester overseas, and he had 45 credits from high school.</p>
<p>He also had time for two time consuming EC as an undergrad and grad, as well as working 15 hrs/wk., and was socially active.</p>
<p>He feels he would not have the job he loves with just a BSME.</p>