<p>JSM--would it be helpful to talk to an admissions person at dream school to run the various transfer scenarios by them to see if they'd have any suggestions about maximizing her chances at transfer (if she's not admitted)? Just a thought. I've learned a lot by just calling the admins or dept heads directly, a few times....</p>
<p>Yes, I'm going to call both the dream school and the CC. There is a wealth of information about this on the dream school site. Thanks.</p>
<p>JSM there is also something to be said for her applying to those other schools if only because there is a huge chance that she may change her mind about the dream school once she has settled into her 2nd choice and fallen in love with it. Though I respect totally the Community College option it is possible that the transfer issue may in fact resolve itself once the second choice school and residence life she will find there become her reality.</p>
<p>The freshman dorm thing on a residential campus is hard to replicate and though on-campus living has its ups and downs very few people that I know are sorry they did it since that is where/how they made the social contacts that made their college experience positive. So I guess what I am saying is that maybe she can consider determining that she wants to come home and go to CC after a year somewhere else rather than ruling it out beforehand. </p>
<p>I know you didn't ask for advice...I'm sorry if I have overstepped.</p>
<p>Thank you for the advice HM, by all means I really appreciate it. I think this will be a backup plan just in case she really does want to go. I'll approach her about it, but I'll tell her that I will continue to help her apply to the other schools on her list.</p>
<p>Son just returned from visiting his sister, which he quite enjoyed. Really liked the classes he sat in on and just about everything else he saw and did. He's seriously thinking about applying there, which would be a real long shot for him. D took him to a drag show they brought in on Saturday night. So when all his friends at home were happily attending the homecoming dance, my son was at a drag show. Wonder if he should mention that in his "why this college?" essay.</p>
<p>Linfield-just looked at the supplement which is the longest I have seen--? anyone?</p>
<p>Yikes! have not looked at it yet. but TwinK's list has just moved from 10 schools to 9 so hopefully the length of the supplement won't deter her. Oregon 101 do you know about the Feb scholarship competition at Linfield?</p>
<p>historymom-no-but will look into it. I was hoping you would tell me that the "longest supplement I have seen" is not OUR Linfield!</p>
<p>Sorry to intrude since my DS is class of 2010 ... however, this article may be more relevant to you ...</p>
<p>FROM THE CHRONICLE OF HIGHER EDUCATION:</p>
<p>As Credit Crisis Chills Campuses, Worries Mount
When the stock market plunged 778 points last week, losing almost 9 percent of its value in one day, higher education responded in an uncharacteristic way: It began to buckle.</p>
<p>Colleges have often considered themselves recession-proof. But last week's events compounded an already difficult year for many institutions, which have suffered from declining state support, tightening credit, and losses on endowment earnings. As a result, the financial meltdown — with its promise of a prolonged economic downturn — prompted some institutions to take radical steps and wreaked havoc on the way colleges do business.</p>
<p>Boston University's president announced he would freeze hiring and stop all building projects that had not already been approved. Gov. Bill Ritter of Colorado tabled all taxpayer-supported construction, stalling several campus building projects. And Wachovia bank froze the accounts of nearly 1,000 colleges, leaving those institutions unable to access billions of dollars they depend on for salaries, campus construction, and debt payments. Some colleges are concerned they may not be able to make payroll.</p>
<p>Even as Wall Street rebounded a bit from its historic loss, campus leaders told The Chronicle they were considering other responses to the crisis: Public institutions talked about increasing tuition as other revenue falls, while private colleges said they would dip into their endowments to increase student aid and counter a growing scarcity of private student loans. Campus leaders discussed offering classes in the evenings and on weekends to maximize campus efficiency. And they said they would consider hiring more adjunct instructors instead of tenure-track faculty members and look for ways to improve cash flow by borrowing money from auxiliary operations like stadiums and bookstores.</p>
<p>"Every downturn has its own unique features," said David W. Breneman, a professor and director of the program in public policy at the University of Virginia. "But this is a financial meltdown the likes of which we really haven't seen since the Great Depression."</p>
<p>What also seems clear, though, is that the national economic crisis will not affect higher education evenly. There will be winners and losers.</p>
<p>Well-off private universities with large endowments — and public universities in energy-rich states with strong balance sheets — are on the plus side. They will weather the financial turmoil and may even improve their standing, poaching faculty members from universities that are struggling and using their stability to attract donors who do have money to give. But small, less-selective private institutions that are dependent on tuition, as well as public universities in states where the financial outlook is already grim, can expect to suffer. Some may even be forced to shut their doors. State legislators and education leaders in Michigan, for example, have already discussed the possibility — however remote — of closing a campus within the public higher-education system.</p>
<p>But one longtime university leader warned against overreactions and retrenchment. "In times of economic distress, you have to be very prudent. But you also have to start reinvesting," said E. Gordon Gee, president of Ohio State University. "The mistake of any university leader would be to hunker down. You invest in turbulent times. I never view it as an opportunity, but we need to take advantage of as much as we can."</p>
<p>Feast During Famine</p>
<p>In higher education, large-scale downturns in the economy have not necessarily been bad for business. When people can't find jobs, they enroll in college. Some officials — particularly those at community colleges and low-priced four-year institutions — expect that to happen this time as well. "Downturns are really good for colleges in terms of the supply of people into education," said Claudia Goldin, a professor of economics at Harvard University.</p>
<p>But any enrollment boost the current crisis may bring will likely be overshadowed by the financial pain and belt-tightening it will cause.</p>
<p>If past recessions, like the one in the early 1990s, are any guide, colleges will cut discretionary spending and stop investing in their staff and infrastructure. "Campuses became dog-eared," John Nelson, an analyst with Moody's Investors Service, said of the last recession. But they limped along until the economy improved. "Colleges are amazingly resilient," he said.</p>
<p>Still, some circumstances of the current downturn are different from those of the past. For one, institutions are carrying more debt. Most colleges devote around 5 percent of their budgets to debt service today, compared with around 3 percent 20 years ago, Mr. Nelson said. Debt service is an inflexible cost, not a place where colleges can tighten up. "If the recession is a long and severe one, we would definitely expect the results to be different this time," he said.</p>
<p>Another big problem: Banks have basically stopped lending money, or started charging much higher interest rates to colleges willing to take out loans. For the many institutions with variable-rate debt, which has fluctuated wildly this year, that has taken a far bigger chunk out of their budgets than they had planned.</p>
<p>Many colleges are also short on cash, said Dean W. Currie, vice president for business and finance at the California Institute of Technology. Whereas large research universities used to invest their endowments in stocks and bonds with a steady interest payout, institutions like Caltech have found they can earn more by investing in less-liquid assets like small start-up companies. But the payout on IPO's can take years. "That creates a cash problem," said Mr. Currie.</p>
<p>It isn't clear yet how the financial crunch will effect personnel, although, like Boston University, some institutions told The Chronicle they would leave unfilled faculty and staff positions open.</p>
<p>Kirk Beyer, president of the board of directors of the College and University Professional Association for Human Resources, said colleges tend to prefer to lose positions across the board through attrition. But buyouts and layoffs are likely to be among the options if budgets continue to tighten, he said. The University of Memphis last week announced a voluntary buyout plan for 115 positions, including administrators, professors, and staff members, that will save the institution $1.5-million.</p>
<p>Some more-well-off campuses will undoubtedly consider this a time to raid professors from institutions that are struggling. "Harvard could clean up in bad times," said Ms. Goldin, the economist there. But even deans at Harvard "get scared" in a bad economy, she said, so it isn't clear that will happen.</p>
<p>Endowment Effects</p>
<p>The health of college balance sheets is closely determined by the vitality of their endowments, which could suffer as earnings and giving drop. Ann E. Kaplan, director of the Council for Aid to Education's Voluntary Support of Education Survey, which tracks private giving to colleges, said donations typically slow down in a recession or stock-market drop, but recover quickly.</p>
<p>Edith H. Falk, CEO of Campbell & Co., a fund-raising consulting group, said she expects well-established fund-raising operations that have been around longer to do better. Colleges with smaller, newer programs may struggle.</p>
<p>The impact on fund raising varies in different parts of the country: Institutions in places such as New York, where the housing market has been hammered and the financial crisis has hit closest to home, are feeling the effects of the down economy more than those in Dallas or Houston, which have been more insulated because of record oil profits.</p>
<p>Some institutions already are changing their plans, based on the economic troubles. The University of Colorado had been gearing up to start a fund-raising campaign but might now delay it, said Ken McConnellogue, a spokesman for the Colorado system.</p>
<p>Westminster College in Missouri was also preparing a fund-raising campaign to double its endowment, starting this year. "We may push that off a year because we think that our donors are so nervous about their own money," said Wayne Lowen, vice president for business and finance.</p>
<p>Like other campuses, Westminster had already suffered a decline in its endowment earnings even before last week's market fall.</p>
<p>Westminster's 10-year model had predicted solid returns on its $55-million endowment. But the college changed its forecast to 0 percent in the last year and ended up making .5 percent. Now the college's board has asked Mr. Lowen to figure out how Westminster would fare if its endowment actually lost money.</p>
<p>At Winona State University, in Minnesota, which has undertaken its first-ever capital campaign of $10-million, donors are being affected in different ways. Last week, at the groundbreaking for Winona State's new wellness center, Merchants Bank announced a $500,000 gift to the college, the largest in the bank's history. At the same time, James Schmidt, vice president for university advancement, said one of the university's most loyal alumni, a man in his 80s, has told the college he won't be able to give as much as he would like. The man held more than $750,000 in Wachovia stock and has now lost a significant amount of money on those holdings.</p>
<p>"It just about made him sick to tell us that," said Mr. Schmidt.</p>
<p>But some people will make money in this market, and fortunate universities may benefit from that. Consultants say some wealthy donors may actually increase their gifts. And fund raisers expect that loyal donors will continue to give, but that it may take longer for them to fulfill their pledges.</p>
<p>Squeezing the Middle Class</p>
<p>Donors are not the only ones whose financial situations are now uncertain. Economic instability is also making it more difficult for families to afford college. That, combined with the shrinking availability of loans and the prospect that the economic downturn may lead to increases in tuition next year, may push some students out of the equation.</p>
<p>"Low-income kids counted themselves out of higher ed long before the economy tanked," said Sara Y. Goldrick-Rab, an assistant professor of educational policy studies and sociology at the University of Wisconsin at Madison, who is surveying 3,000 Pell Grant recipients in the state. "How will this affect their expectations? Will starting and finishing college be an affordable possibility with a real payoff?"</p>
<p>At Fordham University, 150 students who had private loans last year don't this year, says Peter A. Stace, vice president for enrollment. If students' financial situations change drastically over the course of the academic year, colleges can adjust their aid forms. A student already on the bubble might become eligible for a federal Pell Grant or for more grant money.</p>
<p>Fordham also keeps a pool of institutional aid set aside for students who fill out forms late or have major changes in their financial situations. This year it has a fund of several hundred thousand dollars.</p>
<p>Vassar College already has had to dip into a contingency fund and into endowment earnings because it is spending $1-million more on student aid than it had planned.</p>
<p>The increase results from a combination of things. This year Vassar moved to "need blind" admissions, and more students overall qualified for aid than the college predicted, including upperclassmen whose families were hit by the failing economy. For example, one student's parents owned seven large rental properties which provided the bulk of the family's income. But the family suffered foreclosures on all the properties and is selling its own home. Vassar awarded the student a $40,000 scholarship in addition to federal aid.</p>
<p>Building next year's class may also present challenges for colleges. In a tight economy, families are likely to focus more on affordability and less on finding just the right college for a student academically, socially, and culturally.</p>
<p>Students will probably apply to more colleges and shop around for the best financial-aid package, said Robert A. Sevier, senior vice president for strategy at Stamats Inc., which advises colleges on marketing. As a result, colleges may see their yield, the percent of accepted students who enroll, go down and become even harder to predict.</p>
<p>Private colleges may also simply lose students to more-affordable twoand four-year public institutions. Enrollment at Tidewater Community College, in Norfolk, Va., is already up this fall, to about 26,750 students, continuing a trend of steady growth.</p>
<p>Deborah M. DiCroce, the college's president, believes the current economic situation will bring even more students to Tidewater. She expects to see not only adults who are out of work or need new skills, but also recent high-school graduates who decide that studying for two years at a community college makes more financial sense than going straight to a more-expensive university. At $1,523 for a 15-hour semester, Ms. DiCroce said, Tidewater costs about a third of what the state's four-year colleges do on average.</p>
<p>Campus officials are hoping for the best — a quick turnaround — but preparing for the worst. The crisis will force them to make tough choices: Should they reduce payouts to protect their endowments or increase them at a time when students are sure to need more help? And if they have less to invest in people, programs, and buildings, which should come first?</p>
<p>"At a time like this, you have to make trade-offs and do some things, but not others," says Catherine B. Hill, Vassar's president. "For us, the big question is are these financial changes cyclical, or are they permanent?"</p>
<p>This article was reported by Elyse Ashburn, Scott Carlson, Audrey Williams June, Eric Kelderman, Kathryn Masterson, Beckie Supiano, and Robin Wilson, and written by Ms. Wilson.</p>
<p>The Chronicle of Higher Education
Section: Money & Management
Volume 55, Issue 7, Page A1</p>
<p>Really interesting article. I have been wondering how the financial crisis will affect acceptances and enrollments for our kids. We are looking at mostly private schools, and will take a much stronger look at merit aid offers than we would have though we would have to do. I have to think many more students will be unable to pay for private education for next year's freshman class....like everybody, my son's 529 is 30% less than we thought it would be.</p>
<p>Today's a good day! D has off from school and was able to apply to 2 more schools on her list, brings the total to 7. Two more schools left on the list to apply to; NONE of which are in-state. She can't find an in-state public she likes that has her major, so we have a dilemma. She visited two in-states, one had her degree the other didn't and she disliked both.</p>
<p>NJ is tough, I sympathize. I wish we had more options. My son was fine with Stockton, but then I found out that they do not guarantee housing after freshmen year, so what good is that unless one is within commuting distance? NJ housing is pricey, IMO, and it would require a car.</p>
<p>I haven't posted in awhile because our process has turned into a non-event, but thought I would just let folks know that S2 did get accepted into West Virginia University, as expected, and more importantly has decided not to apply anywhere else. He is hook, line and sinker in love with that school (which has pretty much always been the case) and I have ultimately become a huge fan as well and support his decision.</p>
<p>WVU should be the poster child for "we try harder" recruitment. The local admissions representative has been a gem. Early on she hosted a cookies and drinks interactive session for high achieving area students and their parents at a local Panera bread, also waiving the admissions fees for this group and promising to shepherd applications. I knew acceptance was not an issue, but I did have lots of questions ranging from the low 4-year graduation rate, freshman retention in engineering, Academic Common Market issues, competitiveness of the Biometric Systems program, etc. She hooked me up with all the right people--Director of Research at WVU, freshman engineering coordinator, dean of the engineering department and computer science departments, Director of Admissions--all of whom gave detailed answers to my questions that more than adequately addressed all of my concerns. </p>
<p>WVU has a 74% retention rate in engineering for freshman, which far exceeds the rate at UVA and Virginia Tech which I believe is around 50%. The school has a dorm dedicated to freshman engineering students and mandatory study labs for anybody with less than a 3.5 GPA. Although this is a big school, they do not seem to be letting the engineering students fall through the cracks. The Biometric Systems program was started in 2000 and works closely with the top ranked forensics department at WVU and the FBI. </p>
<p>S2 is getting top grades across the board so far his senior year and just seems happier than I have ever seen him. The only negative is he did suffer a class 3 shoulder separation in football this week, so is out for the rest of the season and doubtful for basketball. It is a borderline class 4 and may require surgery, but the doctors are taking a wait and see approach. S2 is bummed about missing tonight's homecoming game and the rest of his senior year season, but having broken his femur in football when younger he sees this as a relatively minor injury in the overall scheme of things.</p>
<p>Best of luck to all still going through the process.</p>
<p>My son just found out that he was accepted to Tulane! This is such a confidence booster for him and a huge weight off our shoulders. His safeties were an educated guess, not a sure thing. Hooray for EA schools with VIP apps (no fee, no teacher recs, quick response)! Now he can go back and re-examine his list and see if there are some schools he no longer has a desire to apply to.</p>
<p>Congratulations, TheAnalyst, now your son can simply enjoy his senior year, and it sounds like he will get everything he needs at WVU.</p>
<p>And congratulations to blackeyedsusan - that first acceptance is such a relief!</p>
<p>Congrats to all those who have their first acceptance.
It feels my S (and I) keep making mistakes. I just realized that he put his own return address on all of the envelopes for the rec's and GC rather than the HS's. Do you think he should take new ones? What would you do?</p>
<p>Congrats Blackeyedsusan and TheAnalyst! What a great thing it is to see a light at the end of the tunnel!!! Oregon, I think you could potentially stick a sticker with the school's return address over the written home address. You can get sticky mailing labels in almost every size (to cover yours!)</p>
<p>congrats analyst and blackedsusan! Wonderful news that can help these potentially stressful days pass a little more calmly!</p>
<p>the analyst: My DDs also have a safety they would be happy to attend w/ questionable 4 yr grad rate and sophomore retention. Through my research I have learned that a lot of that is due to to the fact that it serves an under-served population who may have economic or life issues which interfere with contiguous schooling. It seems to be less of a reflection on the school culture/availability of classes than on the clientele it serves. The 6 year grad rate is comparable to many other schools</p>
<p>"dorm dedicated to freshman engineering students"
Analyst, this will help your son to minimize distractions and succeed at engineering. Congrats!</p>
<p>Our search has ended up being a non-event too, as my kid has decided to begin college at the CC. Counselor advised us to apply now to insure a slot in the honors college. Good thing he said this - I figured there was no rush...</p>
<p>SJTH-thanks-that will be easy enough. We had just realized it when one of his teachers called to ask him a question and she had also noticed it-so that made it "important". I went through the college app's with D 7 years ago but seem to have forgotten everything!</p>