<p>Husky, has your D done any PSAT or SAT prep? I asked because something similar happened to my son several years ago. His 10th grade PSAT scores were so strong that I thought with some help he might have a shot at NMSF. So I sent him to an expensive prep course. His formerly weak math scores went up but his formerly very strong verbal scores went down by a corresponding amount, with a net result of essentially the same score both years. For the SAT I told him to forget everything they’d taught him in the verbal part of the prep course, and the scores went up quite a bit.</p>
<p>When you read on CC, you think everyone scores above 700, but that is really the top 1%.
Scores tend to go up 20pts per section from Sophomore to Junior year. The students with really low scores are more likely to go up and the higher scores are more likely to go down.</p>
<p>My junior improved by 50pts on her R & M and went down by 30 on her W. I was really disappointed with her W score, but let her know that a lot of schools don’t use it yet.
My jr. took her SATs in Dec and I am waiting for her results. I’d like for her to take some SAT IIs and two APS in May and June.</p>
<p>I think she should take Fall SATs and ACTs, in case she wants to apply EA anywhere.
ED should be reserved for people who have a very high or low EFC, not for the middle range who might get a big scholarship at State U.</p>
<p>Missypie - No, she didn’t take a prep class. I think that she over-thought the testing strategy though. As a soph, she was very relaxed and guessed (correctly) on questions she wasn’t sure about and didn’t omit any. This year, she left more unanswered, but not enough to account for the number of questions missed. I’m pretty sure a prep class before the SAT is not the answer. The PSAT this year was just a fluke, as she has never scored below the top percentiles on standardized testing since she has been in school.</p>
<p>husky, it really does sound like an unfortunate fluke. It sounds like she’ll do just fine on the tests for when it really matters in the admissions game.</p>
<p>D2 found out yesterday that the brother of one of her 8th grade classmates died over the weekend. He was a student at UCLA; D1 knew him from band and said he was a great guy. The school is in shock. I’ve not seen any news report, but D2 said that the young man had a heart condition and there may have been alcohol involved. My heart goes out to the parents…</p>
<p>SlithyTove - I am so sorry to hear your news - what an impact this must have on your Ds.</p>
<p>Husky, I am sorry about the PSATs, but as we all know, the NMS program is great for the transcript, etc., but just piece of a big puzzle…Standardized tests are flukey anyway, in my opinion - you just never know.</p>
<p>NYNY: I thought of Carnegie Mellon University when I read of you student’s interests - strong engineering/science/math program, plus strong arts program…and in a city - just a thought!</p>
<p>My D and I toured a total of 21 colleges (excessive, I know!!) and we did start very early - spring break of her sophomore year. We saw most of them this summer, and this fall. I didn’t wait for her to suggest it, but rather just told her we were going to do this when we had time (she is in boarding school, so we did have to plan this out). While I totally agree that it is better to see colleges when they are in session, we felt that of the schools we saw over the summer, there was only one that we really couldn’t get a feel for without seeing the students (that was Brown). The others really gave us a sense of the type of student body just through the feel of the campus and the tour guide, etc. </p>
<p>(The reason we did this all so early is for 2 reasons: My junior D is being athletically recruited and we wanted to get a good idea of the schools she is talking to in the early stages, plus I wanted to make sure she saw plenty of schools that don’t have her sport in case she got injured, etc. Secondly, my younger D will be applying to boarding schools next autumn, so that time will be dedicated to touring those campuses - I didn’t want to have to visit colleges and prep schools all at the same time - too much to focus on!) </p>
<p>If you feel really pressed for time though, one can always apply to schools, sight unseen, and then go back and visit when accepted.</p>
<p>Yes, Marymac, It is good for us all to remember that it is just the top 1% that scores above 700, and to feel as excited as we should when that happens to be our student! When reading CC, it does start to seem as if 99% of the population is scoring like that - it can be hard to keep a healthy perspective!</p>
<p>Appreciate the additional thoughts. mamom, it would definitely make me happier if S would take the January SAT (he has not taken the SAT yet) but I don’t want to push him if he’s not comfortable. He has taken the PSATs twice and did very well - any sense of how good a practice that is for the SAT? If he could do as well on the SAT as he did on the PSAT, there would be no need for a retake, but I’m nervous about the flukiness of these tests. If he takes the SAT in January, it will give him the option of a retake this year. And if he doesn’t need the retake, so much the better. He starts Christmas break this weekend, so I may raise it with him again then.</p>
<p>Mayhew, thanks for the suggestion of Carnegie Mellon. I don’t know that much about it, but it is on the list of colleges that students from S’s high school have attended in recent years. I want this to be his process primarily, but if I can give him a list of some possibilities to research once he’s ready, that might help jumpstart him. I don’t think 21 college tours is in the cards for him, but it would be nice to start looking at some schools over spring break. If not, it’s good to hear that summer visits are not a waste of time. And his high school typically starts late, so we could probably do some college visits at the end of August or early September when the colleges are back in session.</p>
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<p>The major differences between the PSAT & SAT are: SAT is longer, SAT has more difficult math and SAT has the essay. So, if his PSAT scores would transfer over to acceptable SAT scores, and he has time before Jan to do some prep for the math and essay, I think it’s a good option. </p>
<p>As far as flukiness, I think the PSAT is more so than the SAT. Since it is shorter, each question has more value, and makes a relatively greater impact on the final score.</p>
<p>With so many of our kids taking the SAT soon, I’m reposting this miniguide to the essay that I found here on CC several years ago (sorry, but I can’t credit the OP). My Ds found it very helpful. The one point that is questionable is #3 about examples; this person says not to use personal anecdotes, which contrasts with Grammatix which says to use exclusively personal anecdotes, I’d recommend a middle ground of combining examples from various sources (personal, literature, current events, etc.) Hope this is helpful:</p>
<p>How to Score a 12 on the Essay – A Miniguide </p>
<p>I scored a 12 on both the March and June SAT essays, so I thought I would write up some spicy tips for you all to do the same.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Read the Quote and the Question. Most kids open the first page of the question booklet and skip the quote, heading right to the question. The quote is there for a reason, though. It gives you some instant mental imagery, sets the tone for the question, and ignites your critical thinker. It is highly probable that you won’t know the author of the quote, but if you do, it would definitely be prudent to at least mention that person and his or her ideas briefly in the essay (on the same topic, of course). Read the quote twice if you have to. Otherwise, move onto the question. Read the question ten times if you have to, noting how it is phrased. Realize that the questions must be politically correct and are supposedly “philosophical,” which means they are questions of truth and knowledge. You must fully understand the question to proceed. If you misread it and write off-topic, the results could be disastrous.</p></li>
<li><p>Time is not on your side. The test prep books will tell you how to manage your time, but the fact is that there’s barely enough time for any type of planning. You do not have time to create an outline! Immediately after comprehending the question, begin your first sentence! You need every second possible. If, after reading the question, your mind begins to race with ideas (which is the best possible scenario), jot a few letters down in the test booklet to refresh your memory, but that’s it! The ideal situation is to spend just a minute or two on the quote and question, dive into writing, and have a minute to spare at the end to search for grammatical errors or to upgrade your word choice in a few areas. However, you don’t want to have to stop in the middle of a sentence when time is called, so bring a watch with a built-in stopwatch if possible. Try not to look at it for the majority of the essay’s duration, though.</p></li>
<li><p>Examples, Examples, Examples…and more Examples. This is the fuel of your essay. You need to keep thinking of examples as you write. Personal anecdotes will not work (e.g. At my school, I volunteer every week…). You need solid examples that carry at least partial academic weight (for instance, a well-known person, historical event, movie, philosophical concept, etc). The more examples you have, the more you have to write about, and the better your argument becomes. Many people have stated that since these essays are read by english teachers, it is a good idea to include books as examples. I think there is validity in this belief; however, you want the reader to think of you as a “culturally enriched” student, so draw from all types of examples, current events, entertainment, whatever!</p></li>
<li><p>Stay Focused. It’s easy to lose sight of what the question is asking. In each paragraph, re-read the question to tie it all together. You don’t want to write two whole pages only to realize that you digressed majorly and went off on a tangent. You can easily lengthen your essay by continuing to mention how your examples fit with the topic. </p></li>
<li><p>Content is King, but it won’t guarantee a 12. Ever since that MIT professor found a correlation between length and scores, everyone assumes that longer essays get higher scores. It’s true, but only because the more capable students usually have more to say and more to think about. Writing just to fill up space won’t ensure a high mark (in fact, the more a reader sees of your writing style or lack thereof, the more it may in fact hurt you). Many of my friends filled up both pages until the last line and still received 10’s. This reaffirms the fact that it’s what you write and not how much you write. (I will note, though, that I did fill up every line provided on both of my essays).</p></li>
<li><p>Prepackage, but also let it Flow. Think of some well crafted sentences and vocabulary that you know you want to use in the essay. Broad but insightful statements work very well as they can be applied to almost any essay the SAT writers throw at you. The readers <em>will</em> award more points just because there is an indication of planning. During the week or night before the test, lay out some vocab words which you are familiar with but which are still academic (don’t use anything too far above your level). You can also think of some broad examples (for instance, editorialist Thomas Friedman has been writing recently about how the world is “flat” since jobs are being outsourced to India and China – this could work for that job essay prompt, the majority rule question, practical skills, creativity…you name it!) Still, you should allow yourself a good amount of flexibility, so don’t try to memorize an entire 2 page essay – you could end up reading the question and panicking since your ideas don’t fit the topic.</p></li>
<li><p>Forget conventional American writing. The 5-paragraph essay format practically breeds mediocrity. It’s true that you need some type of introduction, and you will need insightful concluding marks, but anything in between should be up to you. On my essays, I had solid introductions but only a couple sentences for the conclusions. There are no rules, so as in the previous tip, let it Flow. If your ideas require one continuous paragraph for the whole essay, so be it. That probably isn’t a great idea, but you shouldn’t stress yourself out with having three main examples fit perfectly into three main body paragraphs. You are allowed to break a new paragraph just for one or two sentences if you so desire. Whatever you do, make sure it’s on your terms. In European countries and around the world, they use a “spiral” format, which uses the whole essay to discuss many viewpoints, and then they arrive at a thesis in the conclusion. For the SAT essay, it doesn’t even matter if your thesis isn’t the most prominent line – so don’t spend time crafting a perfect thesis.</p></li>
<li><p>Have a point of view. Go for a “nonconformist” view, even though that doesn’t mean taking an opposte side to the question. Go for the point of view that somehow embraces the beauty of life, succeeding, and progress (it sounds corny, but it works). Don’t depress the reader…impress him or her with a new and innovative direction on the prompt.</p></li>
<li><p>Write Legibly. If your reader has to squint to read your essay, it will slow the person down, paying more attention to grammatical errors and other inconsistencies in your essay. Write clearly so that the reader can zoom through and be “wow’ed” by the end of it. </p></li>
<li><p>Retaking the SAT? Recycle your essay thoughts. There are no rules against recycling your own ideas. It will be a different grader and a different test, so if you liked the essay you wrote from a past administration, feel free to use some of the same vocabulary, examples, or concepts. Obvious? Yes. Effective? Definitely.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Thanks so much for the list Entomom - it looks very helpful. D was not planning on taking the SAT (since we think the schools to which she is applying primarily take the ACT, which she’s taking in April) but she did unexpectedly well on the PSAT so she may be taking the SAT for NMS consideration if she winds up within the qualifying range.
I really appreciate everyone’s help on this site!</p>
<p>Our students PSAT scores were not what we had hoped either…
CR stayed the same
M he went down in math but he has an A+ in AP Calc --how did he do that ?? it is beyond me…
W up only 20 pts…</p>
<p>sigh</p>
<p>he has alot of ground to cover before the Jan SAT…</p>
<p>I guess back in the day when we all took the PSAT in our junior year in preparation for the one time we would take the SAT in our senior year, the PSAT may have served a diagnostic purpose. But now I see it as a scholarship competition plain and simple. And lots of kids don’t want to attend one of the schools that offer the big scholarships. Last year our school district put a picture of the NMSFs on the school web site and recognized them at a pep rally and this year they did neither.</p>
<p>entomom, thanks so much for the essay hints. D1 took the ACT last weekend and felt rather so-so about it, said she ran out of time and that she’ll regard this as her first attempt. Is it possible to buy stock in the College Board? :)</p>
<p>I’ve been reading the 2010 thread to see what the future holds. Lately, it’s been making me feel like I am on a roller coaster, at the beginning, when you’re heading up the hill. A verrrrry long hill.</p>
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<p>The PSAT (and SAT) math is at a relatively low level, so even though students are taking advanced math courses, they usually need to do some brush up because they haven’t used some of the concepts for a while. Your S further removed from the PSAT math this year than he was last year. Even the SAT Math2 Subject test is geared to be taken at the end of pre-calc, and it’s harder math than either the PSAT or SAT.</p>
<p>Slithey,
I’m with you about stock in the CB, has the SEC looked into the near monopoly they have on college admissions?? Between testing and late fees and dropped tests due to lack of prep time and prep materials and sending scores, I don’t even like to think of how much I’ve sent to them.</p>
<p>The PSAT is just one test, and other than the NM stuff, colleges won’t see it - something to keep in mind for those who didn’t get the scores they hoped for.
OUr school’s advisors say not to really talk college until after first semester grades are in. Then, using whatever resources you have, make a preliminary list and start figuring out how to visit. Schools vary a lot - some have Saturday and summer tours, some don’t.
PSAT is a touchy little test, in my view. Blink and your scores can drop. (Although things worked out nicely for my kid who will be NMSF I’m sure - being more than 10 points over the usual score for our state.)</p>
<p>Just received S’s PSAT scores in the mail. Definitely not what I hoped for. Overall score dropped 6 points, CR which was already very high went up 6 points, Math which was good to begin with went up 2 points in score but down 5% points, and W went way, way down 14 points. Yikes, he is suposedly very strong in writing. I know this is really about the technical aspects of writing, but wouldn’t you think he would do well in that if he writes well? </p>
<p>His overall score is very good none the less, just not what I expected.</p>
<p>Our student tells us that ALL of the kids who applied SCEA to Yale were deferred…
OMG!
One is neck and neck for val, is a track athlete, though a “wet blanket” when I met him myself…
still was suprised that this guy and another young lady -strong student etc both were deferred–
Edvidently one student has decided to NOT open her SCEA envelope until after Christmas …(maybe she meant until they leave for break on Fri)…</p>
<p>all we can say is wow…</p>
<p>Haven’t been on for a few days - life intrudes - how unfair is that??</p>
<p>SlitheyTove - congratulations - that’s a fabulous PSAT score! D got her scores today - very much in line with the SAT scores she got back last month. She will be commended, but will not make the cut off for NMF in MA., She’s fairly happy - thinks she can take the SAT again in March and do better.</p>
<p>Mid-term grades were announced this week - and that was more of a problem. Very confident D tells me that these are only midterms - not to worry, the grades at the end of the term will be better! Apparently, in a couple of the classes, only one test or essay was used as the grade. Sigh - I sure hope she pulls these up - she’s currently has a great transcript/ranking, but this year is so key to everything. She’s tired of hearing me say that though!</p>
<p>PSAT scores finally came home today. I am happy with S’s scores - a 196 is not up to CC standards, but it is a 25 point jump from last year. His writing score went up 16 points, which may have been so low because he got tired last year and stopped trying on the last few sections!</p>
<p>Last year three seniors at my S’s school were accepted (and went) to MIT. Five applied EA this year. A friend at another school did too. All were deferred.</p>