<p>@ Vandy: The SAT scores come out just over 2 weeks or so from the test date. PSAT scores feel like they are on a slow boat from China…</p>
<p>S is taking the ACT in Dec the week after the SAT. Will let you know his thoughts. His CC told him to study for the SAT, which he has been doing, and then take the ACT. Once we review all the scores, if needs to re-take the ACT he will do so in March.</p>
<p>I’m going to throw this out there. My thinking might be very off-stream, in that I feel standardized testing (albeit many colleges are now doing away with them, and in light of the cheating scandal in Long Island, NY, more colleges might join the bandwagon), is a better measure than gpa. It sounds crazy I know. Case in point, my d’s situation in changing from private to public school. My d did well at her old private school, but is not doing as well in public, due to poor teachers and the grading system. Here’s what you are up against across the nation. Each school grades so differently. Some schools consider tests, quizzes, class participation, homework and extra credit. My d’s public school has no continuity. Physics, where the teacher has tenure and is known for being a terrible teacher, only includes the tests in his grading, not quizzes, so you are basically sunk. Math considers the tests 80%, quizzes 20%. APUSH considers tests, quizzes and will offer extra credit. in my d’s old school, everything counted: class participation, quizzes, tests, homework, and extra credit. </p>
<p>The point I am making, which I’m sure many will disagree with, is that schools and grades are all “teacher contingent.” Some kids get easy teachers and fly through with all A’s; other kids get difficult teachers and suffer through the worst year of their life and to add insult to injury get a poor grade. Some schools will help you supplement a bad grade, others won’t. So how can a college possibly know if a student is truly an A student? Or if a C student got a raw deal? Standardized tests - SAT, ACT, SAT II’s, (in a subject where they can prove they know the material but just had a bad teacher, for example), AP tests, etc. I know many a kid who had an A in an AP course, but then bombed the AP test. Vice versa is true as well. Your child can have a tough grading teacher in a history class, for example, and then they ace the AP test, because it was easier than the class. </p>
<p>At this point, it’s all a crap shoot. You’ve got kids with wonderful resumes being rejected from top tier schools (not ivy’s). The kids being rejected from Ivy’s are now applying to schools that used to have an average gpa of 3.5, for example. Now, however, with the number of great applicants being rejected from the ivy’s, and other top tier schools, that second layer of colleges have upped their qualifiying gpa’s to 4.0 (Kenyon is a great example and there are many others). And then you have to factor in the athletes, the musicians (a friend of mine’s son got in cornell not for his grades but because they needed a trombone player that year), kids with bizarre talents - all getting in top schools, but their gpa’s are not stellar. </p>
<p>Legacies don’t seem to matter much these days either (especially if you are not a high contributor - building a library perhaps?). A friend of mine told me about a man whose daughter didn’t get in Georgetown. She had a phenomenal resume (4.4 gpa; extracurriculars, etc.), her father and grandfather went to the school, and they contributed $50K to the school. </p>
<p>In our case, my d is in a terrible situation, as she gave up seniority in all her activities when she had to leave her old school. The editorial positions she would have had this year are gone. They won’t even let her in the clubs. So she will have nothing extracurricularly in school this year, and all her activities will have to be in the community. </p>
<p>She’s still the homing pigeon going back to her old school every chance she has, because that’s where all her friends of 7 years are, and that’s where all the teachers who know her well are. I’ve already spoken with some college consultants (ex-admin directors for Columbia, Duke, Georgetown) and local recruiters for those schools, and they all said that it would be perfectly fine, given her circumstances, for her old school’s teachers to write her recommendation letters, and the teachers offered to do so as well. </p>
<p>My d has made every effort to do what she was supposed to do to get the help she needed at her public school, but it is so chaotic, that it wasn’t until this past week, we finally got a math national honor society tutor (after chasing after one since sept). The school apologized and owned up to it that it was their fault in not knowing who the proper referrals were. But it is frustrating to say the least. I feel sorry for kids who can’t advocate for themselves, and I have to say that my d’s AP classes are going well, and the teacher’s have told her that she has excellent study habits and effort. </p>
<p>She equates herself to the “Man without a Country!” - hopefully, she will wind up wherever she is supposed to be. I’m hoping the universe has a great plan for her.</p>
<p>Just keep reminding yourself that it’s all in context. She will be evaluated in the context of other kids in her graduating class and that particular school. The GPA is only one data point.There is value in having both a high school GPA in context with other kids taking classes from the same teachers AND the standardized test where the student is on a national scale. Kids learn alot from having a variety of teachers who grade in a variety of ways. They learn alot from the really good teachers as well as the really poor teachers. It’s really no different in the college setting. They all grade based on different criteria. College admissions people are very used to seeing transcripts form a variety of schools. </p>
<p>I think it would be balanced to have a recommendation from both a teacher from the “old” school as well as one from the “new” school, since she would have spent 2 years in each one. It will be obvious from her transcript that she switched schools midstream, it’s not all that rare since families move for jobs and all kinds of reasons. </p>
<p>Remember, also, that junior year is crunch year at just about every high school for every student. Classes get tougher especially for kids taking advanced level high school classes and teachers just expect more than freshman or sophomore year. I’ve had three boys now just groan about how tough junior year is. There’s no guarantee your D would have had an “easier” time at her previous school although I have to believe there is more hand holding in a small private system than in a public system but there isn’t a whole lotta hand holding in college and perhaps there will be lessons learned by your D this year and next that will do her well when she gets to college. By late spring she will have probably taken the PSAT or the ACT and you will have a “truer” sense of where her college list might be headed. </p>
<p>If you have an alma mater of yours or her fathers that is on her radar screen then perhaps try to get ahead of it if you sense she’s got an uphill battle. Mind has had his heart wrapped around a college that will be alittle bit of an uphill battle I fear so we’re doing a few look-see trips this junior year just for him to see that there are other possibilities. Most of all as a mom starting down the path for a third time, take a deep breath and know that it all works out in the long run and if you set aside the angst (and I wish I could have the first go round) it can be a really fun time for a mom or dad and a student.</p>
<p>Hi all! Been focusing on my DS12, but he is closed to finished his apps and then he waits. So, now onto DD13! Hope Junior year is going well for everyone here. DD is struggling for the first time in AP English. It will be fine in the end, but it is not an easy year for her. She is finding balance and having a lot fun too, so that is all good. </p>
<p>Meda- colleges will look at your DD’s gpa in context to her school. That is why ranking can be important. If she has a “lower” gpa, but is still ranked in the top 10%, then the school can see that there is some tough grading going on. Sometimes, schools are familiar with each individual HS, it depends. Will her HS rank her since she is a transfer? Sometimes they don’t. If that is the case, then your DDs SAT and SAT2 scores will be more important than her GPA. In either case, ask to see your HS’s profile. The profile usually gives some info on how GPA ranges and what not. Also keep in mind that GPA varies so much from school to school (4.0 scales vs. 5.2 scales vs 100 scales - it really is all relative to the individula school). That is why SAT or ACT scores become important and will never go away!</p>
<p>Medavinci,</p>
<p>Your daughter is probably better off in extracurriculars outside school anyway. I know many people think the books What High Schools Don’t Tell you and What Colleges Don’t Tell You are a little over the top but I think the author has some good points. She says that being at the top on a local scale is insignificant compared to creating something new or being on the top on a national scale. Your daughter is probably better off creating a terrific blog or becoming the editor of even a newsletter for a food co-op than worrying about missing out on positions on the staff of her school newspaper. Let her find something she cares about outside school. Then she will stand out and have better essay material later on.</p>
<p>I believe you are SO right Apollo6. Achieving something outside of high school or attaining some national ranking is a fabulous in, especially for someone whose school is less than stellar. I’m sure it’s what got my daughter into MIT.</p>
<p>Medavinci, another idea is to use the experience of changing schools as a topic for her essay. How she’s overcome the difficulties and can use those skills to succeed in college…</p>
<p>Meda you brought up a lot of good points. As others have said, colleges look at you in the context of your school. Also, most college courses don’t count homework, participation and extra credit, so getting used to that sort of grading is not a bad thing. I can see the arguments either way. The SAT is not perfect, in fact it is far from perfect and there is not proof that doing well on the SAT corresponds to doing well in college. I have heard of accomplished grad students bombing the SAT. I think basically there is no perfect way to admit kids to college so they have to do the best they can with the tools that they have.</p>
<p>"Medavinci, another idea is to use the experience of changing schools as a topic for her essay. How she’s overcome the difficulties and can use those skills to succeed in college… "</p>
<p>This was actually one of my college essay topics in the early '80s because I was a victim of a school closing at the end of my junior year. Apparently it was successful because I was accepted to every school to which I applied. </p>
<p>I empathize with M’s daughter because it is difficult to adjust to a new school culture - even if you go from one public school to another as I did. I did get all my college recommendations from teachers from my old school. I also took advantage of summer programs and other out of school opportunities since my new school never recognized me for anything. I know my experience occurred many years ago but I think it is still valid.</p>
<p>TX5athome wrote:</p>
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<p>I completely agree with this. I did not do well on my SAT, on the whole, but went to a great college and did absolutely fine. My daughter is doing fine on her PSAT but in NO way is her score stellar, nor is it reflective of her GPA or her work ethic. If only the SAT were looked at, she would be very underestimated. I am grateful for the combination of things considered when colleges are considering students.</p>
<p>Hello folks, checking in. D has had a busy start to the school year wtih her ECs and adjusting to the full IB program. She is running B+ right now (about a 91/92). I wish the grades were higher, but I think at this point, this is it. </p>
<p>We have visited some colleges this fall. We took a mini trip to Ithaca to see both Cornell and Ithaca. Most of our time was spend on the Ithaca campus. D LOVED it! It is just beautiful, on a hillside, at the foot of the finger lakes in NY. The view was breathtaking. The campus is spread out, so there would be much hilly hiking to and from classes. D seemed to think this would be a good way to battle the freshman 15. It was cold, but we live in a cold area so that was not an issue. Dorms were typical dorms, small, corridor style until you get to upperclass status. The town itself was cute, a bit crunchy/granola, but that was definitely appealing to my D. The students are very frienly, very active in the campus. We would consider the school an academic safety, but a financial reach. However to D this is definitely a topy choice. My H and I left thinking D would be very happy at the school. </p>
<p>We also visited a SUNY school, Geneseo. It has a great academic reputation, but it just fell flat for us. The school was a bit run down and it just didn’t have the energy we experienced visiting other schools. D found it much too rural.</p>
<p>@nellieh- That’s great that it would be a safety for her but she liked it so much! That’s huge!</p>
<p>Hi All! I’ve been offline for almost 2 weeks & trying to keep up. Wishing everyone a Happy Thanksgiving!</p>
<p>D2 has the entire week off for Thanksgiving & is loving having no serious homework over her head. Junior year is turning out to be much less stressful than sophomore year (which D1 swears is true at our school) and she’s been able to get to sleep most nights at a reasonable hour. Grades are holding steady & fine. Phew! It’s been great to see her laughing & horsing around.</p>
<p>D had me register her for the January SAT & the February ACT; they take the ACT in school in March, but it doesn’t include writing. As of right now, her list includes schools that need SAT II’s so she’s planning on those in May.</p>
<p>On “The List” front, it’s officially down to 13. It’s a reasonable list with the exception of distance; no schools in state and the closest one is 3 hours away (next closest: 5 hours away.) DH is not thrilled with that, but I figure the list is always subject to change. We’ll do a visit on Presidents Day, and another on some random day off in March. Hoping to do a 5 school visit over spring break.</p>
<p>Got SAT scores. Good news, he broke 1400 on CR/M. Bad news, his writing and Essay score were much lower than expected. His essay score was actually less than his essay score from 7th grade. </p>
<p>He wants to retake because scores aren’t good enough for Pomona. I’d like him to wait until after the February ACT, but he doesn’t listen to me. </p>
<p>I’m 
because at a minimum he may get Bama’s free tuition. Since his GPA isn’t stellar and this year so far looks like it will pull down the overall GPA, I’m happy that his SAT will be strong for the majority of schools on his list.</p>
<p>I checked out the SAT section. I’m really relieved my son isn’t aiming for HYP, top Universities. Those kids on that board stress me out not being happy with +2100 scores.</p>
<p>Welcome back, RobD! I was wondering where you were off to!</p>
<p>I’m glad that your D is having a less stressful year this year. That isn’t usually the way it goes for Juniors so that is a real treat. My D will also be taking the SAT and ACT, but in Dec and Feb respectively. She will need to do her best to get those scores up so I figured the Dec SAT date would give us a baseline. I’ve been having her do some practice work in the Blue Book.</p>
<p>Did any of you have your kids take an SAT prep class? If so, do you recommend the one that they took?</p>
<p>13 schools is a good sized list overall, I think. I know it is well thought out, for sure! My D is interested in Secondary Ed and Social Work, and lots of schools don’t offer a Baccalaureate program in Social Work. Our list keeps morphing. Sigh. At least we’ve got a couple of clear Yeses and a couple of clear No’s. Progress, right?</p>
<p>@Longhaul- Excellent news on the M/CR sections! I would be thrilled with that combination, truly! I would be doing the Happy Dance! And I totally agree with you about the HYP boards- totally stress inducing. On the whole, I have found I need to be very careful about where I go on the CC boards. I like the threads that are for students between 3.0-3.6, even though my D is above that, because they are much more balanced and feel less competitive to me. I’d never make it on Survivor, I guess!</p>
<p>Things will be heating up for all of us in the next year and a half. I’m scared!</p>
<p>I just signed up D for Kaplan to prep Jan/Feb for the March exam. We had good luck with Kaplan with my S. I think just having to go, work through the exam practices and learn a few basic test taking techniques was helpful. A disciplined kid can do this on his/her own but many kids don’t find ways to carve out dedicated time to test prep…too many distractions at home.</p>
<p>My S was a strong test taker and had done those JH talent program so he had already had some practice but he said he actually did improve by taking kaplan, particularly in understanding how the test evolves and how to pace himself. His PSAT was a 136 CR+M but he ended up with a 1560 CR+M on the SAT. A lot of schools say they just ignore the essay/writing sections. He is good advertising for Kaplan and I had a similar experience prepping for the GRE after taking no math for 4 years and deciding to enter a quantitative field–Kaplan just refreshed what was buried in the back of my brain but it resulted in a very good stipend. </p>
<p>D is a much more nervous test taker and often changes right answers to wrong or spends too much time agonizing over a problem. She did quite poorly on the 10th grade PSAT so I thought it would build confidence to have some practice so she took a very short PSAt course (4 sessions) at a mom-pop tutoring group and found it too small and the teachers were older. Even so, she said it definitely helped her do better on the PSAT because she finished the math with some spare time while the previous year she left many questions blank. She is looking forward to a larger group setting with Kaplan and a younger instructor. I considered a one-on-one tutor but she thinks she just needs to have the classes to force her to take the time to practice and one on one may not really push her as hard. Doing it in winter while she is not in a sport will be helpful and if all goes well in March perhaps retake again in May and finish with Math II SAT II in June. WOuldn’t it be wonderful to have all the testing done before senior year!? </p>
<p>D has the day off and wanted to work on a photo project but it is pouring rain.</p>
<p>Longhaul: Congrats on the SAT scores!! </p>
<p>SAT prep: D1 did Princeton Review. Her score went up 200 points. S2 did not do test prep, his score went up 200 points. D1 liked Princeton Review. I think you take practice SATs at least 3 times. The first time you take it cold and then they put you in groups according to your score. D1 ended up in the high math group and the low english group. (not surprising she is a math major in college). She said that the low group was a lot of fun and the kids were very social and would get frozen yogurt on their breaks, where the high group was very anti-social and just studied during the breaks. The guy who taught the class was young and very nice and also helped with her college essays (for free!).</p>
<p>So I’m having a little “AGGGHHH!” moment. Our district voted on next years school calendar this week & I just downloaded it (I like to add days off & breaks ASAP to my Outlook Calendar for planning purposes. don’t judge ;)</p>
<p>I realized this is the last school calendar that will ever apply to me! and I can officially tell everyone when D2 will be graduating. So I’m having an odd combination of happiness and bittersweet.</p>
<p>Scary to think that next year this time, our kids will be eyeball deep in applications. I went to a funeral this past weekend and saw many people I hadn’t seen in about a year or so. It wasn’t until I got home that I realised I’d been saying my son was in the 10th grade!</p>
<p>Howdy, parents. I’m a junior and I kind of wanted to know some of your opinions on this:</p>
<p>I live in New York where everyone takes the SAT and most students (at least in my school) have never heard of the ACT at all. However, I despise the format of the SAT and am in love with the ACT. I got the red book and I think I’ll take the test in June since it’s the earliest I can (Japan trip in April). Anyway, do you think it’s weird for a New Yorker to not take the SAT?</p>
<p>Csihsis, I can’t say that it’s weird for a New Yorker to not take the SAT. Even if you did take it and the ACT, you could send just your ACT scores to colleges if you choose to. But if you took the PSAT, you might want to wait until you get your scores back before totally writing of the SAT. If your PSAT score puts you in range as a possible National Merit Semifinalst, you would need SAT scores to advance to finalist standing.</p>