<p>Cat657: working is an EC! There is a huge section on the applications for work history that my D1 and S2 had to leave empty.</p>
<p>My son does not like to join things either, and when he does, he likes things to be on his terms, so getting sufficient ECs has been a challenge for us, too. Related to this, I have been wondering about letters of recommendation. Specifically, I have been reading about the hugely damning effects of faint praise, so I am wondering how one can know that a teacher or advisor is enthusiastic enough about your child to write a really good letter. For example, I happened to see an email my son wrote to his favorite teacher last year. He wrote how much he liked the class and the teacher was polite but cool in his reply. I would never want that teacher to write a letter for my son, but I wouldnât have known that if not for that emailâmy sonâs grades were good and comments on papers were positive. Essentially, how can you tell if they actually LIKED your child, and didnât just think of them as another good student?</p>
<p>My DD does not have many ECs. She has been involved in band since 5th grade(which takes up alot of time in the fall with marching and competitions), and is very active in drama. Next year she will be in Thespian Club. She is in the process of getting a job right now. If she is not working this summer she will be volunteering just to get out of the house. </p>
<p>I am worried about recs, also. Most of DDâs teachers know her pretty well, and have been aware of her issues with ADD. She has overcome alot. But, on the other hand, she is has a very dry sense of humor and is quite sarcastic, and I worry that she crosses the line sometimes. She is always telling me how she cracked a teacher up, but sometimes I cringe and hope she was appropriate. I will never forget when I was applying to some competitive colleges and asked my AP English teacher to write a recommendation. I ended up not applying to one, but she had already given me a sealed recommendation to send with my app so I opened it and read it. She made a comment about how my assertiveness sometimes crossed the line into aggressiveness(she had seen me debate several books and issues in her class), and I was so devestated by her remark. I always wondered why she just didnât suggest I ask someone else.</p>
<p>Midwestmom, this is my fear. I want to find a way to ask (or have my son ask) for a recommendation that makes clear that I donât want them to write it if they canât be really positive. I donât want them to say yes because they think itâs their job or because theyâre really craving another box of artisanal chocolates. I may âcross the line into aggressivenessâ and just ask! (letâs see where that lands my sonâŠ)</p>
<p>Regarding how to ask for and get good recommendations and some other advice I have been reading Elizabeth Wissner-Grossâs books, such as What Colleges Donât Tell You- It can be a little daunting reading however, since she encourages people to âpackageâ their children and spend years creating kids with unbelievable resumes. For what itâs worth though, she has some very good ideas as well. I can relate to fears about recommendations, or should I say fears about all of this! My S has great grades and scores but also lacks in the EC department. I am trying to get this area addressed as much as can be done in the short time we have left. I have a list of math/science programs if anyone wants that. My S is also applying for an exchange program in Japan since he has been studying that language for several years now.</p>
<p>Luckily, one of my kidsâ teachers actually volunteered to write her a LOR and she took him up on that. My kids requested their other recommendations from teachers with whom they felt they had a rapport and in whose classes they had excelled. Keep in mind that if a teacher does not really know your child â and what makes them tick â it is likely the LOR may not do your student justice. </p>
<p>I did read one rec from a teacher both kids had used and I think it did the trick. Both kids got into their first choice schools, so it must have worked out.</p>
<p>I had a conversation with my S the other day about joining clubs and reminded him that back when he first started as a freshmen, I encouraged him to join some clubs at school. At the time, I did not even have college on my mind. I just wanted him to get involved, meet people and develop some relationships. I did not want him let four years of school go by and wake up the last semester of his senior year wishing he had done more. I assumed he had not heeded any of my gentle reminders the first couple of years and I gave up nagging. Turns out, he did seek out three different clubs but he told me that âMom, they arenât DOING ANYTHINGâ but having meetings. Nothing gets accomplished." Well, blow me over. He did actually listen to what I was saying at some point.</p>
<p>Teachers know that if they canât write a glowing recommendation they should decline.</p>
<p>Welcome Cat657. I am pretty new to CC myself and wish I had found it earlier as well. Reading the back posts helped put some perspective on things and I found out that we had muddled through pretty well. But the stuff I read out here has definitely helped. I think the biggest benefit for me (and my family) is having a group to talk about this stuff with without driving my DW or S13 nuts (or least not too nuts).</p>
<p>The recs thing is tricky. In some cases weâll never know what the teacher wrote. And since Iâm not at school watching the interactions, I canât be too much help in picking a teacher who will write a good rec. What I have done is help remind my son of the dsicussions we have had at home and which teachers he has talked about the most. A few posts back somebody provided some resources for creating a resume or some sort of bio to help give teachers input. That might work for a willing teacher. In the end, you have to trust that your kid will pick the teachers they know and respect the most and that the same is true for that teacher.</p>
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<p>This is a big concern for me as well. DD is deep into the spectrum and is oblivious to what others are thinking or feeling. Connecting with others is very difficult. Since the start of HS, I have encouraged her to develop strong relationships with her teachers knowing the importance for recommendations but she considers saying âHiâ to someone as talking with them. I fear she will equate âI get good grades in his/her classâ with âteacher likes me and will write good recommendationâ. She is at a very large public public school so I have no contact with any of her teachers. Any ideas?</p>
<p>There are lots of really good schools that donât care about ECs and do not require letters of recâŠthey base admission either exclusively or primarily on gpa and test scoresâŠnothing wrong with focusing on those. Examples that come to mindâŠ</p>
<p>Va Tech
Iowa
Iowa State
Kansas</p>
<p>I also think that the importance of letters and ECs is probably overrated for those LACs outside the âtopâ 50. Examples that I know of include Luther and St Olaf where grades and GPA carry the load.</p>
<p>My sonâs AP US History teacher was also his English teacher last year. This year she is also heading up the Chess club, in which son is a member. So, I think she is someone who has watched him grow and understands him well. She would therefore, I think, make a good person to write a recommendation letter for him. </p>
<p>Last year when he started his English class, he had a 45 in the PSAT Writing section. After taking her class, this year his PSAT Writing score rose to a 76. (He omitted one question and got none wrong). So, I think, she can rightfully take credit for the change. She also knows that son is the best chess player in school. She has actually seen him play the second best player at the school and another good player, at the same time, and beat them both. So, I think, she knows there is something good going on inside his mind, better than many other teachers. I probably, do not need to tell you, how much my son also likes her. So, she will probably be the person, S will choose. If he needs a second recommendation, it will probably come from the AP Physics & Computer Science teachers who are also interested in chess, know him as their best player and feel responsible for his improvement in their subject area.</p>
<p>Bump - I think I have seen people do this on other threads to move it back to the front page. Sorry if I have this wrong.</p>
<p>Welcome Cat! First, I think the emphasis on ECs is really overblown. I truly think that just showing some interest in something outside of academics is important for the super student so they donât look one sided. The fact that your son has held a job for during summers and school is far more impressive to a school than a list of various honor and service clubs that basically, as your son said, do nothing and require little commitment from the students. My son has found that employers and college counselors often asked him about his stint at starbucksâŠhe has a long list of software and programming skills but the one that elicits the most interest has been âmakes a mean caramel Macchiato with requisite criss-cross caramel pattern.â Able and willing to do a crappy job shows more perseverence, people skills and sense of humor than attending national honor society meetings. </p>
<p>Donât overdo it with the nagging. It sounds like your S is independent and capable. Nevertheless, almost all students will benefit from parental involvement because it is an incredible teaching moment for showing them some good methods for breaking down a long term and stressful project. When my Sâ10 was going through this ago I got a gem of advice from a cc thread. During junior year, let your kid know that you want him to set aside 1-2 hours once a month to focus on college prep stuff (not SAT prep). Senior year it will probably be weekly until everything is done. Some of that time should be spent with parent(s) discussing goals and deadlines and prioritizing some selection criteria including a very frank discussion about what the parents can/will contribute financially and, perhaps, getting him to talk about what he is looking at in a college. Do this early. It is like talking about sex and drugsâŠa little awkward and seems like they are too young to be thinking about these things but really, they should be. Also, make your kid register for all tests âŠperhaps with your initial assistanceâŠand prep classesâŠetc. Just making the student pick the test site, fill in all the stuff, sends the message that this is about the student, not about the parent. </p>
<p>My sonâs high school had a couple of excellent requirements for all rising seniors. First, at the end of junior year they all had to create a resume (with goalâvague or specific-- at the top âI want to attend a liberal arts college or university and, as yet, I am undecided about my majorâ or âI want to attend a selective art school to major in sculptureâ or âI want to attend the US Military AcademyââŠalong with gpa, senior classes, interests, awards, ecs). This document was required in order to request letters of recommendation and there were strict deadlines on when students needed to ask. This made sure students gave teachers enough time and information to formulate a good letter. NO PARENT would be able to ask for a recommendationâŠI think to do this would be the kiss of death for a decent recommendationâŠwhat would I say about a student whose PARENT asked for a recommendation? âBilly is bright but is unable to seperate from homeâŠâ</p>
<p>The second requirement over junior summer was to write at least one college essay and submit to the English teacher by the first day of school. I can only kiss the hands and feet of our guidance counselors and English teachers that implemented this requirement. My son had one beautiful essay done by September and once the first is done the other essays come easier. WOuld it have happened if the school had not required it?..no way! As it was he scrambled to complete some of his last supplemental essays. If your kid is going to do the common app, I believe t he new application comes out in July/August of 2012 for the class of '13. </p>
<p>Third, there were VERY strict deadlines about transcript requests to prevent a surge of requests the last day before major deadlines like November 30, December 14, etc. </p>
<p>Some kids will self organize and pace themselves. For others, this is a lesson in creating a long term plan and implementing. By forcing child and parent to set aside some designated time, the project becomes very doable and the nagging has a limited start/stop time. My son became a little stressed during the whole senior Fall and, although it was always on my mind, I was very very careful not to talk college apps except in our sunday morning session unless he brought it up. In our designated times, I helped my son set up a filing system for the apps and all the paperwork, I made a list of deadlines, and, when asked, I filled out the parental part of the applications. In April/MayâŠwe made a spreadsheet of costs and financial sources including the merit and financial aid offers. We discussed the pros and cons of his various choices, and then let HIM make the final decision. I used our âdesignated hoursâ in the spring to sit him down to formally accept and (more importantly) reject when he was so excited and filled with senioritis that he would let this stuff just slide. I actually found that the spring of senior year needed more of this type of oversight (keep grades up, send final transcript, send deposits, etc) because he regressed somewhat in maturity once he was into a school. This is not unusualâŠthey may freak out a bit that they are suddenly facing the end of life as they know it and may need more organizational support.</p>
<p>I suspect with my Dâ13 that she will do a lot more of the organizational stuff and do it her way, but I have made her get a new email account for college information/testing/etc. and I ask her once or twice a month to please be sure to check it. I donât see her getting such extreme senioritis either.</p>
<p>Now my sophomore college son is applying for internships and I can see the benefit of the process from senior year. He simply pulled out his old resume, adds his new info, etc and just sent me a really professional looking one for me to âjust check overâ. He has a plan for tackling the various deadlines for different types of jobs and is creating a different type of resume for different types of art related jobs. He has already thought about who to get references from and prepared a request plus resume email to send once he has spoken to his profs. He asked his grandparents for a bow-tie for xmas and shined his shoes with our supplies. He is ready fo rthe college job fair in February. I look at him doing this and I really feel that the college prep process was one of the best lessons from high school experience. He has discussed his job search strategy with us but it is more to get some feedback but notasking for any help. I am so happy to see him doing this under his own steam, his own ideas and organizational strategy, etcâŠ</p>
<p>take heartâŠwe emerged from the college app process with a stronger relationship because it really helped us and him see that he was now an independent person who could take charge of a critical project that would affect his long term success and happiness. It was a perfect transition from childhood to young adulthood. Enjoy the ride!</p>
<p>finarts⊠Looks like some very good advice to me. Thanks. Somtimes itâs hard to keep perpective.</p>
<p>S13 finishes up semester finals week today with AP US Hist. and Calc BC. Two toughies. Glad this week is wrapping up and he can move on to next semster.</p>
<p>Tennis tryouts next week. Thatâs a more fun thing to focus on.</p>
<p>My son was home from school yesterday and today. He was hit by a car on his way to school yesterday morning. He was VERY lucky. No broken bones or internal injuries. Heâs just very sore 
</p>
<p>I have him working on a couple of applications for summer programs that he actually seems interested in attending. The two that heâs dragging his feet on are film workshops and that surprises me so much. His dream is to become a screenwriter. I told him if he could find something else to apply to, he could substitute. I donât think heâs looking. Summer seems so far away but he forgets the application deadlines arenât.</p>
<p>So sorry about your sonâs accident Reinaz! Lucky he was not hurt.</p>
<p>Reeinaz, as David said, thank goodness the accident wasnât more serious. That must have been scary.</p>
<p>First semester grades came home this week. D13 grades were as I expected. I have a spreadsheet where I have her grades calculated by university! So she has her school GPA, plus others. We are trying to whittle down her school choices, but at the same time, havenât even looked at Texas yet. So still have more to do!</p>
<p>D13 finally received her PSAT scores yesterday and she is comfortably in the NMSF range. Based on her previous PSAT & SAT scores it was hard to imagine her not making NMSF but it was still a long, nervous wait. Way to go DD! Unfortunately, most of the schools she is interested in donât have NMF scholarships but it does provider her some attractive options.</p>
<p>We are now in spring break college visit planning mode. Iâm trying to figure out a good college tour that doubles as an enjoyable vacation for the rest of the family. Maybe Chicago, Boston, DC, Philly or NYCâŠ</p>
<p>reeinaz â Hugs to you and your son. Relieved he was not hurt. Still scary.</p>