<p>Hello everybody, I have been a reader of this thread for quiet sometime, haven’t really posted anything but seems like I know everybody here. I have a dilemma that I am not sure about, so asking for help. My s1 goes to a private Catholic school out here in CA. In his school they don’t rank the kids but have the percentile system such as
Above 4.5
4.0 - 4.5
3.5 - 3.9 and so no
Well its time to pick up classes for the Junior year and school has a cap at 3 AP’s for junior year.
When all is said and done after the Junior year, he can only get 4.5 which is not the highest percentile for the school.
So instead of top tier he is only going to be 2nd tier which this last year was 16% of the kids. He just needs 1 more AP or honor class for the GPA boost. Also school does not put classes taken anywhere else on their transcript.
I have been talking to the school in letting him take another honor class, but they don’t think it is a good idea cause of the rigor of the class.
Is being in that tier going to hurt him for exclusive schools and how much that high school GPA really matters ?</p>
<p>What an odd system Knit! The kids get placed into tiers with almost zero chance of changing their situation or moving upward as they gain in maturity…the top students in 10th grade get to take the top classes with higher grade weights so they get the top grades and then get into more APs and…the circle continues. It seems like a system to discourage kids and also to tell average kids that even exceptional effort will not be rewarded with either more challenging classes or an outstanding grade… </p>
<p>The problem for college acceptances is if the college admissions officer doesn’t know the particular quirks of your school, they see that Student Y took 5 APs at the school with a high GPA out of a possible 10 AP classes offered while Student Z took 8 APs with a higher gpa so Student Z has both a tougher curriculum and a better GPA… But…the saving grace is that the system tries to stop students from taking on too much and getting mediocre grades and AP scores. Those AP scores seem to mean a lot, particularly the 10th and 11th grade ones because the colleges can see them. they know that an A in AP Biology means different things from different schools and even same school, different teacher. But that 5 is much more “standardized”…so if your son does well on his 3 Junior APs he is perhaps doing better than taking more advanced classes and getting 2-3s on the APs. I think that is the reasoning of the school trying to base the number of APs and advanced classes for kids depending on their grades in the previous year’s coursework. That is sensible…the problem is that it doesn’t take into account a student’s change/growth during the year–I can tell you that my D now is quite a different student than the D that started in september. She still may end up with a B in Algebra II for the year, but she finally figured out how to self study math (step away from the facebook…duh!) but seriously 6 months ago I would have told her to avoid IB Physics but now I think she can do it. Her brain and study habits have made significant changes in 10th grade. If you think your son can handle the heavier coursework ask his teachers if they would endorse him taking a heavier load…or they may tell you frankly that he would be overwhelmed…</p>
<p>knit2create: they don’t put the classes taken on the transcript? What’s on there then? How would a college know how many years of foreign language, science, math, etc. they’ve taken?</p>
<p>I think so too, that it is an odd system too.
Also I might add that
he took 3 honors during Freshmen most any 9th grader can take.
Taking 2 AP’s and 4 honor in 10th grade
Has gotten 1 B 9th honors English and 1 B in Spanish 3 honors( 1 semester)
everything else is an A.
I fail to understand why school would not want to work with him to make sure he gets into the highest percentile.</p>
<p>Robb, they will put the classes take at their school on the transcript, but not anywhere else. Like if he took a class at community college that is not going on the school’s transcript. College will see two transcripts, one from the school and one from the community college. I hope I answered your question. Thanks for helping me !</p>
<p>The high school generally sends a school profile along with the transcript to the colleges that he’ll be applying to, so the college can get a sense of the student within the context of the high school they attend. High school gpa matters of course, but since they don’t rank, are you saying that he will be in the top 16% but not the top 10%? Sometimes the top 10% is a big deal for admissions. </p>
<p>If I’m reading between the lines of your post, it sounds like he’ll be taking some higher level classes at the local CC? Maybe that aren’t offered at the HS? I don’t think it’s an issue that they’re not showing up on his HS transcript (ala dual enrollment) as long as they are noted on the application and a CC transcript is sent. And it will show initiative beyond the hs course work. </p>
<p>It looks like he’ll have 5 APs by the end of junior year. That’s more than my D will have (only allowed 1 soph year; will take 3 jr. year.) And I know competitive schools are looking at how many APs taken compared to how many offered (so if a school doesn’t offer many, or very few, students aren’t penalized for that-back to the reasoning behind including a school profile with the transcript.) I believe MIT says that their average incoming freshman takes 5-6 AP classes in HS (can’t find the documentation for this though.)</p>
<p>RobD: Yes, he would be classified as top 16% cause he will have 4.5 GPA and breadown from last year was
Above 4.5 - 2% (4 students)
4.0 - 4.5 - 16% (45 students) and so on</p>
<p>Now he might be the number 10th student in the profile but he is in top 16%.
That is my concern.
Even if they allowed him another honor (which school does not have anymore beside Latin and French ) he would move up . He is currently taking Spanish 3, I even offered the school if he could do Latin 1 online and test in Latin 2 honors next year, they don’t think that is a good idea of doing Latin 2 honors instead of Spanish 4 , that would look bad for the rigor of the class.
I am frustrated and confused !
thanks for your help</p>
<p>So basically the options are being reported as top 2% or top 16%? Nothing in between? How odd. </p>
<p>Can you ask your guidance counselor how admission results have been in the past for kids just below the 2%?</p>
<p>knit, there is somewhere between 10-15 AP courses offered at my D’s school in any given year. The number offered depends on interest shown when students schedule. Some of the AP courses that eventually find there way onto the master schedule may be offered in the same time block creating a scheduling conflict. In other words, according to the school profile, it may look like a student has access to a certain number of AP courses, but in reality the student is prevented from taking some AP classes because they are held at the same time as another. My D is taking four AP classes next year and I’m almost positive she will have a conflict and will have to make other choices. I recently asked the Dean of Admissions of our state flagship if the university is aware of these issues and was told that the student should let them know on the application. Perhaps when your S applies you need to spell out the limitations he has encountered at his school in his application so he will not be penalized for what he cannot control.</p>
<p>RobD: Yes, that’s how the last year profile is showing. I will have to ask her about one from the year before.</p>
<p>Blueshoe: That’s actually the reason given to me by the school that the Colleges know that students can only take upto 3 AP’s in the junior year in our school, we definitely are going to putting that down on the application.</p>
<p>The whole AP thing is driving me insane again! That is one of the reasons we want to leave my D’s school, because of how they determine who will take an AP class. They say it is so tough, and yet, my D is in regular Euro history this year, with a teacher who also teaches AP and she came home today furious. She spends at least 2-2.5 hrs a night on her history (they are given 90-100 pages to read and annotate on any given night), and they have to write a 30 page term paper, and have a huge annotated bibliography where they have to write paragraphs on 5 of the sources (must have 15 approved sources before bibliography is completed), and they need to have the term paper done by Monday! Meanwhile the AP class has to write a quarter paper vs their term paper and spend the rest of the year studying for the AP exam! It’s ridiculous. They will advance to APUSH, but my daughter won’t because she has a B. She spends a lot of time on homework and notes, and the teacher NEVER checks it, and yet she gave her a 76 on her quarter grade for hw which she is definitely going to dispute (I normally don’t get involved in grading, but this time it is justified). Another of her friends has her last year’s French teacher for honors French, while she has another teacher (you are not allowed to have the same teacher two years in a row; when we were young we kept the same language teacher for 4 years). Well they both have B’s in honors French, and yet her friend is moving up to AP and my D isn’t. So she has to contest that too. All the classes are teacher-contingent as I’ve expressed many times before.</p>
<p>There is no option but to leave or go to the head of the upper school to ask for her to be put in AP classes. If she doesn’t, then they said she will have to have all A’s next year (which I’ve also expressed on here won’t be possible due to physics and pre-calc), in order to get in APs as a senior. It’s ridiculous. </p>
<p>The public schools have no rules about getting in AP classes, so it would be so much easier to go to the public school in our area. She is so disappointed. </p>
<p>Knit2create, our school does not rank either. The way it was explained to us is that a B in a regular class in my D’s private school is equal to an A in public school; however, AP classes are graded equally (doesn’t make sense). Her school would be judged by colleges with the same standards as another all girl private school of the same rigor not with the public school candidates. A coed private school would also be judged with its equals. Public schools in one part of the country would be judged with those in another part with the same rigor. They know the standards in the schools, but what they don’t take into consideration is the teachers. Some are easier than others. That is where the inequality comes in, and with my daughter’s 12 hour school days and then another 4 or so hours of hw, there is no time for anything. </p>
<p>This weekend alone, she has to go to a track team dinner on Friday night, a symposium (instead of the track meet in the Berkshires - 2 hrs from our home) on Saturday, and then has to do the wretched term paper by Monday which means no sleep Sunday. Then she has 3 concerts during the week that she is performing in at school, and next weekend 12-7 on Saturday is another track meet. Next year, she will not be signing up for track. To add theater on, which she wasn’t able to do this year and is her passion, was impossible since rehearsals are 7-9pm. We just live too far away to stay and then come home and do all that hw.</p>
<p>The other thing is that each school has different subjects each year. My daughter has studied French since 5th grade, so this is her 6th year technically of French (10th grade). She had Latin for 4 years in middle school, and algebra 1 in 8th grade; geometry and trig in 9th grade, and Alg II in 10th. For science, she had physical/earth science 8th gr; bio 9th and chem in 10th and next year she will have physics. History is World Culture 9th; Euro 10th, US History 11th & then a choice in 12th. But 4 years math, english, science and history are required. She will continue on with her language till the end. However, in some other schools, you can stop a language after level 3 which would be 10th grade; some have just 3 yrs of math or science and so on. She takes arts electives each year and an extra art that meets at 7am (a capella). As she goes on they also have to do a half-semester each of economics, oceanography, astronomy, psychology or quite a few others (a choice of 2 for the year). </p>
<p>Having AP and honors is the only way you can garner awards at her school as well, and since she takes her music classes (adv musical improv and a capella vs visual arts or acting or filmmaking) at the private boys school they share classes with, she is ineligible for any awards in those fields. </p>
<p>She would have no time to take a college level course during the year, and our school too, will not allow any courses taken anywhere else on the transcript. </p>
<p>I’m so tempted to switch to Stanford University’s online school. I heard it was great, and she was recruited coming from the John Hopkins Center for Talented Youth. You have to take a test to qualify, and all classes meet via video. The stats on colleges are great too; Ivyies and top tier. [Stanford</a> University](<a href=“http://epgy.stanford.edu/ohs/]Stanford”>http://epgy.stanford.edu/ohs/) </p>
<p>I can’t let my D stay at the school given the amount of money it costs which is now prohibitive without at least 4 AP classes. Right now, some of the girls will be going into jr year with 1 ap under their belt for soph year (that’s all that’s allowed) and 3 next year. I asked if we could take an AP exam without taking the class, and our CC said no; however, Katherine Cohen wrote in her book “The truth about getting in,” that you can take the exam but you just have to study the books or prep for it. So I don’t know how that would play out. She suggests it for kids who are ineligible due to their school’s high standards for getting in…I’m so frustrated!</p>
<p>I posted the other day that I received a note from college board that said that Epsilon reported to them that an unauthorized person outside of Epsilon got hold of email addresses. did any of you get that email? Well today I got the exact same email from Chase with the same format and same wording! I am wondering if this is a scam of some sort as I don’t have a chase account! It isn’t asking for info, but I am going to send it to my IT provider. Just doesn’t smell right!</p>
<p>Meda, I got the CB email. Also, your D’s school may not let her self study and take the AP test, but you should get in touch with other schools in your area because some will allow nonstudents to test at their school.</p>
<p>medavinci: if you look in post 1678 I linked to a news article explaining about the security breech. There’s about a dozen or so companies involved including Chase & college board. </p>
<p>I wouldn’t worry too much about the school awards. I mean, they’re nice to get, but there’s only so much room on the college and common app to list things. Getting or not getting a particular HS award is not going to be the thing that keeps your D out of a particular college. </p>
<p>I know a lot of kids that have self studied for AP classes. I don’t know how it works at this point of the year, as the schools have already had to order the tests for administering them next month (the dates are set in stone across the country) but your CC was wrong about that. </p>
<p>I’m sorry there’s so much frustration going on with schools and rules and policies. It’s so hard when you’re going through it the first time, but honestly 2 1/2 years from now, when your kids are settled in their dorms in October of freshman year, they’ll end up where they’re supposed to be.</p>
<p>medavinci - How frustrated is your daughter with this whole situation? I mean realistically compared to the “normal” frustrations of teens. I’m not at all impying that your worries are unfounded, but I know that as a parent, we want the VERY best for our kids and for myself at least, I can hyperfocus on an issue that turns out to be my issue and not my son’s. My son definitely feed off of my stress so I have to remind myself to play it cool when gauging how he feels about something.
I’m pretty sure that anyone can self study and take an AP exam. Is it the AP score that you/your daughter care about or the boost in GPA if she took the AP class in school? Also, is it possible that your counselor could still report that she is in the top 5% or 10% or whatever in her class, especially if you show that a specific cutoff for a scholarship or admission is needed?</p>
<p>Thank you all for your comments. I think the frustration lies with the pressure the school is putting on the kids to get in APs because it shows progression, and having a B shouldn’t be a bad thing in a high school career; however, the school makes it out to be. Without the B+, you stay on the regular path, and to the colleges it looks like you are not willing to push yourself and work hard (the CC, the books, etc.) all say when it is the furthest thing from the truth. Tonight she slept all the way home in the car, and I just look and say how much longer can she do this. And she feels like a “slacker” since she didn’t get in the AP classes; but, she did say many others did not as well (who really knows). </p>
<p>I did speak with our local public school, and they told me this year there are 293 kids taking ap classes from 9-12th grade, and I don’t know how many kids there are in the entire school, but it seems like a lot of kids. Their graduation req’ts are much less. They only need 8 credits of English (2cr per yr), 6 of math and 6 of social science plus electives. Language isn’t required but encouraged, and so you can make what you want of your 4 years, take how many AP classes (or not). They go from 7:40a-2:20p (that includes gym time too). Classes end at 1pm, and kids who do the arts go to a special regional school in the afternoon to do dance, theater, and voice which is a nice benefit. But the school did say most kids give that up once they enter junior year and add on the “APs.” That’s a huge difference in free time for sure. The PTA sponsors SAT prep at a nominal fee vs. the group fees down where my daughter goes to school is $2895 for SAT training which is insane! But the outside company gets it, because the people pay it down there; PSAT training is $895, and then they have AP and SAT subject prep classes and tutoring in any subject at this place too (it’s a money making business). There are no outside companies that do group classes where I live, and if my daughter doesn’t enroll in the public school, she would not be able to participate in the public school prep classes that are about $300-500. The public school AP classes are affiliated with our state college (the Early College Experience), and if you take AP classes and get a 3, 4, or 5 on the exam, the state college will accept them and you won’t have to take those classes again if you go there. They have 14 music groups which would please my daughter and do 2 shows a year (as opposed to 6 where she is, but she can’t partake in them anyway due to the distance we live). They also have 9 guidance (or college) counselors in the school, and they start with them in grade 9 and follow them through grade 12. We have 3 counselors for 93 girls. The public school encouraged college visits last year after freshman year, which I thought was a bit early. We were told to start this summer. So I think I will go and see the public school with my daughter, and decide after that before tuition for next year is due…</p>
<p>Reeinaz, I personally would prefer she didn’t take the AP classes if she stayed in private due to the amount of work in her school. If it means getting into the college of her choice (whatever that is and whenever she finally decides to start thinking about that), then we would have to switch schools if they are required, because there is no way she could do the commute, and handle the 2-3 hrs per AP subject per night hw at her current school. I admire people who can handle it, but she is only getting at most 6 hrs sleep as it is, and with her autoimmune disease, her system is already compromised and she is just too fatigued. She is torn too, because it’s hard to assimilate into another school in junior year. </p>
<p>Also, since her school doesn’t rank, I don’t think that they report what percentage of the class a student is in (I have to find out for sure). Of course, taking the AP class would certainly boost the GPA, but it would also give her more confidence. She is smart, but clearly in this school, either the teachers are extraordinarily tough in their testing and grading, or the kids are exceptionally bright. It’s hard to gauge since she’s not been in a public school environment. The other critical factor is when I get divorced, we may not be living in this town, so I’d have to check with the public school in the town we do relocate to (with the private school we can stay there no matter where we live, but it would then be a cost issue). This is probably the worst possible time for all these changes (going into junior year). I feel so horrible about it all, and I just want her to be happy.</p>
<p>Medavinci: Wow, seems like this situation is really stressful for you and D. I hope that you can find a solution that works for everyone. My 2 cents is…if she is this stressed in sophomore year, it is just going to get worse in junior year. Junior year always seems like the worst year for all kids - in terms of time commitments and grade pressure. My prayers are with you as you try to sort all of this out.</p>
<p>S2 is off at his final arts competition today (choir this time). He has missed 10 days this year for various competitions, etc. plus several half days for rehearsals. etc. It is starting to take its toll. His grades are still fine, but he seems to spend every lunch period taking missed exams or doing labs for chemistry. Now he’s looking forward to a choir trip to Disneyworld in a couple weeks. More missed days of school, but he thinks it’s worth it!</p>
<p>Our school district is starting to talk about budget cuts. Fortunately, we weren’t hit too hard by the state cuts, but they’re still talking about increasing class size, eliminating bus transportation, etc. It will be interesting to see how it all turns out. How are all of your school districts being effected by budget cuts?</p>
<p>My state’s budget has not yet been finalized ¶ but the proposed budget calls for a $293 million cut in just this school district alone. It includes $1 million less in dual enrollment programs. That bit worries me some as my son’s high school does not offer AP classes for the upper classmen but instead offers dual enrollment classes. In response to the proposed cuts, the district is preparing to reduce gifted, art, and music programs district wide and eliminate most full day kindergarden programs. Of course, each school will see their individual budget cut and I haven’t heard yet from my son’s school regarding their plan to deal with it.</p>
<p>I tried to stay out of this thread because a lot can happen from sophomore to senior year. However, I do have some angst regarding D2. I think she will be ok with the number of AP classes, GPA, and SAT scores. Everything is in the ballpark except her ECs. She is reluctant to do things at school that she is not interested in. I’m thinking of hiring or getting some help from a college consultant. The trick is how to find a good one. Any suggestions would be of great help.</p>
<p>We know there are cuts in sports, but we don’t know too much more, yet. Next week is the BOE meeting where they will discuss. I think I will attend!</p>
<p>Meda - Is your DD as concerned as you are over all of these issues? Are you stressing because she is stressing? Or are you stressing, causing an otherwise perfectly happy sophomore, to stress? Remember CC is a highly charged site and it is not representative of most HS students! If she’s not that concerned, then maybe just ask her where she wants to go. Happiness is a major factor too. What I am understanding is that it is a choice between a private HS that she can’t take APs because of Bs versus a public HS that offers APs, but a less than great total environment. I really think either of these would be fine! I think it might be stressful to change schools in Jr year; you picked the private for a reason. There are tons of colleges for smart kids. Your DD will be fine no matter which school she graduates from. Really. Keep in mind that when transfering to a public, the school might rank, but they won’t rank her b/c she won’t have gone to the school long enough.</p>
<p>End of the semester is approaching and all seems well…fingers crossed!</p>