<p>Geogirl - Don’t think son has a chance of getting into Olin, might visit if we make a swing to Boston schools. Nephew is deciding this week between Tufts and Oberlin and I think it will be Tufts, so more incentive to visit Boston, plus DH did undergrad near Boston. Will be looking into Clarkson, but worry that is is far from anything. Will visit Union and RPI on another trip up North. Son refuses to look at a school called “Trinity”, I am fine with it, seems to have some Jewish students, but not going to push it. Vanderbilt - I don’t know will have to look into it, so imaginary list hasn’t gone past NC. Unless of course you count Rice in Texas (a school I think looks great) but would be major reach.</p>
<p>Figured I’d bump us up and comment that I’m not sure who’s going to be happier on May 6th after the AP Euro exam: D2 or me! She’s been plugging at test prep, along with projects due this week & next for all her honors classes. I “made” her go to bed last night at 11:30 because she was barely treading water, but she was up again at 4 this morning. </p>
<p>I’m aiming for an 8pm bedtime tonight ;)</p>
<p>Man, Rob, I think I’d cry tears of joy if one of my kids cared that much about a test grade! lol All I get is, “I got this, Mom.” But sometimes they don’t. :(</p>
<p>So, the program ds applied for this summer has extended the deadline. This sounds promising, right? Well, they did it last year, and ds still didn’t get picked. All this does is delay the ability to make plans.</p>
<p>I’m right there with ya, YDS. My S just rolls his eyes if I ask if he has homework. He gets it done apparently - just doesn’t put a lot of effort into it. I can’t complain because he makes straight As (or occasionally a B+). I just wonder (sometimes aloud) how much more he could achieve if he actually worked at it. In his eyes, he has acheived the perfect formula of minimum effort for maximizing results. This is the kid who wants to attend a conservatory so he will never have to open a book again!</p>
<p>Disclaimer: No, my S isn’t some whiz kid. He goes to a very non-academic magnet HS. I don’t think his strategy would work well in a typical suburban HS.</p>
<p>Oh we didn’t have to deal with this with D1; she figured out what the minimum effort was to keep her A’s (or test well, etc.) and unless she had an active interest in something, then that was that. And it worked well for her.</p>
<p>D2 can’t seem to do that. Just CAN’T. She could be doing a whole lot less and still do well in school. She understands it intellectually, but just can’t do it in practice. In an effort to put things in perspective, I casually mentioned that I didn’t remember her sister studying for the AP exam much at all and she pulled a 5. Well, apparently that sounded like “your sister is so awesome that she didn’t study at all and got the highest grade, nanana poopoo” and put more pressure on. Oy vey.</p>
<p>We once had a therapist explain (regarding our oldest child) that some kids were pre-programmed to be self-motivated and some were not. And many would only discover self-motivation when they discovered a passion, whether it was music, sports, or computer programming. I’m not sure, as parents, there is anything we can do to turn the motivation on OR off. Just have to love the kids God gave us! And provide a soft place to land when they reach their limits.</p>
<p>Am I in the right place? (Welcome to my first post.) First born and only D figured out what she wanted in a timely manner. Second born aka S1 is in HS class of 2013 (currently a 10th grader) and while he knows he wants science he refuses to go any futher than that. He is a top student: honors and AP classes. We started getting college info in the mail last Fall. It has gone in the recycling (garbage) mostly unopened and when opened it was opened by me. It seems some parental involvment will be in order. So I signed up today. Where is the best place to start to get the most useful information out of this site?</p>
<p>Welcome MomfromKC! Yup, you’re in the right place ;)</p>
<p>Most useful place on this site? Hmmmm, depends on what you’re looking for. If you’re looking for help motivating a 10th grade boy, you can certainly commiserate with our group.</p>
<p>what are you looking for specifically? Target schools? Merit aid?</p>
<p>The number one thing I need to know is school rep specifically based on the degree programs he might be interested in. My choice was easy. I’m an engineer and grew up in Missouri. Obviously I was going to UMR (Missouri S&T now) And while I considered other options and majors there was just no getting around the obvious. We’ve told the kids that engineering doesn’t pay what it is worth. Yes, it is the top paying Bachelors degree straight out of school. But 15-20 years down the road the true techie can be replaced by a new grad possibly in India. So if you don’t go into management or sales your salary flattens out, and that is just the way it is. So far the kid has considered Dentistry and Pharmacist; things I know next to nothing about. So, I need to learn what I can about these and other areas that he might find interesting. His guidance counselor is no help. She told him that Pharamcy and Chemical Engineering were the same thing.</p>
<p>Well, Dentistry & Pharmacy are graduate level professional programs. From everything I’ve heard “pre-med” type programs aren’t actually majors; you can be a history major and be pre-med as long as you concentrate on a high GPA and make sure you take all the pre-req classes that dental and pharmacy schools would require. There may be some guaranteed admission or 7 year programs…I’d say that maybe you should be take a look in the premed/med school area: [Pre-Med</a> & Medical School - College Confidential](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-medical-school/]Pre-Med”>Pre-Med & Medical School - College Confidential Forums)</p>
<p>MomfromKC: I am a pharmacist. Most pharmacy programs are now 4 years and you come out with a “doctor of pharmacy”. The programs take a minimum of 2 years of prerequisites to get into and at least half will have a bachelors before they start. A pharmacist makes a nice salary when they graduate, but, for the most part, the guy who graduates this year and the guy that has been working for 30 years make the same amount of money AND have to work an equal number of weekends. For a woman, being a pharmacist gives you a lot of flexibility and you are able to make a nice salary working part-time. But, like a nurse, or other health care fields, a lot of jobs require working weekends, evenings and/or nights. I found a Monday thru Friday job, but MOST jobs require at least some weekends. For pharmacy, dentistry and pre-med pretty much there are prerequisites that you have to take, but you can major in anything.</p>
<p>Thanks tx5, can you tell me anything about the difference between the guy or gal who runs the pharmacy and pharma research. The topic has come up if it is better to invent the drugs or dispense them. Plus the kid is really enjoying his chemistry class. Thanks for the honest answer on the salaries. I guess that happens in a lot of fields.</p>
<p>^ MomfromKC,
Perhaps someone closer to these fields can provide a fuller explanation, but my understanding is that pharmaceutical research is not conducted primarily by pharmacists, who are more focused on the dispensing and safe use of pharmaceutical products already approved for therapeutic use. Some pharmaceutical research is done at a theoretical level by Ph.D. scientists of various types, and at the clinical level by pharmacologists, usually people holding Ph.D.s in that rarefied field, as well as M.D.s and joint M.D./Ph.D.s, and even some veterinarians (because of lab testing on animals). It takes long years of specialized training but I think it’s a pretty stable field. There will always be a demand for new pharmaceutical products, and because of the advanced training that’s required, the entry barriers to the field are pretty high, so well-trained pharmacologists should be able to command decent salaries. For someone who enjoys lab science it should be a pretty attractive field, with pretty good working conditions (e.g., fewer night and weekend shifts than for pharmacists).</p>
<p>I’d add, though, that while it’s good to have career goals, most college students change majors at least once, and most HS students are going to change their career ambitions multiple times before they finally have to declare a major in college. So while it’s wise to explore career options at this stage, it’s probably not helpful to get too fixated on one particular career path.</p>
<p>I think the latter advice is critical. Don’t fixate on a profession or career path in 10th grade and, frankly, that is probably true for a number of years. Things change so quickly and people change jobs and careers much more frequently than in our time. I feel good that my kids pick up lots of skills and interests now and and even flop around and experiment through undergrad if they don’t have a really, really clear passion for something. I have a freshman in college studying art (I can already imagine people saying “what are you thinking? he will starve!”)…I have had similar concerns but he is quite sure about what he wants. What gives me comfort is that he is picking up all sorts of new skills and education as he does this…at least he can weld now and could apprentice with a plumber…in many ways, the eclectic mix of art/liberal arts/math/comp science/welding/woodworking/film editing experience from his first year of undergrad gives me some confidence that he will do well at whatever he puts his mind to and will never starve and may be wildly successful financially. It is unlikely statistically that he will make it so that he can live off of his art or an art career, but you don’t go into this field planning to be the average, or below average, right? If everyone made their career plans based on expected average long term renumeration, we would have way way too many lousy brain surgeons. </p>
<p>My 10th grader seems so desperate to find a career path with “guaranteed” financial security that I worry more about her than my boy. Artist son, at least, won’t be disappointed if he doesn’t own a home at 35 and has no interest in owning an expensive car! I would prefer that Driven-Daughter should take the time from her single minded pursuit of a medical degree to also improve her writing, learn some basic programming, photography, and knitting (may help surgical skills!) because she can’t be sure what will be in her future and a broad education and skill set may be a both a wise financial choice and also a more intellectually fufilling approach. </p>
<p>I was intrigued by the observation about engineers. Many of my hs classmates became engineers and many did move more into sales and some RandD. they seemed motivated more by boredom than by money…on the other hand, my B is doing very well as an engineer and, I don’t know about salary, but is constantly getting new patents and presenting papers on some of his nifty ideas related to landfill projects. Perhaps Garbage is the answer to financial security and intellectual growth…</p>
<p>I agree about not fixating on a profession. I know I had no idea what I wanted to be when I was 15 (or 18 or 20 for that matter). D1 is finishing up her junior year in college and changed her mind 3 times before she decided to major in math with the intention of becoming a teacher. S2 is a freshman in college and always thought he was a math/science guy (and always excelled in math and science) until he got to college and realized he hated it and is in the process of exploring other options. At orientation for D1 she was undeclared and the dean said they were the only honest ones. At orientation for S2 they said the average student at his college changes their major 2.5 times.</p>
<p>Mom from KC - ask your son to ask his science teachers if there is an elective Jun or Sr year that kids take that are interested in health care. Most seniors at my daughters’ school take one semester of advanced bio and one semester of anatomy, if they are planning a health-related career.
DD is using her electives to explore (in a limited way) future plans. She is taking Music Theory next year and Macro and Micro Economics senior year.</p>
<p>^macro and micro senior year of HS? Are they both year-long classes? As an economist, I would get some input from other kids who have done this. I can’t imagine at that age being able to stay engaged in both of those classes for an entire year (actually at any age)! I took my only undergrad econ (intro macro) from a great professor…I still thought it was obvious and boring. If undergraduate intro classes are dull at least they are over in 4 months…a year of high school of intro macro and micro should instill a healthy dislike of Bernanke, tax dead weight, optimization, and utility functions. Note that I launched without problems into econ phD program with only one econ undergrad course…the only thing you really need is really really good math, a strong stomach for arrogant professors and good, good critical thinking to sort out the BS from the useful economics.</p>
<p>I think AP micro and macro econ are typically one semester each just as U.S. govt is a one semester course. My D took AP macro econ online last summer and found it deathly boring. She has fortunately found some entertaining Youtube videos that make studying for the AP exam less boring.</p>
<p>Yes, at her school, AP gov,AP micro and AP macro are just one semester each. I think I posted earlier that she gets out of consumer education (required in our state) by taking macro and micro. The bonus is that she gets exposure to a beginning class in something she doesn’t plan on majoring in, but who knows, it might spark something.</p>
<p>It is a amazing how each school is so different. I remember in middle school, we were thinking of switching to another private school (but boarding) for high school after having done 4 yrs at my D’s current school. The head of the MS said “well, if your D doesn’t have some idea of what she wants to study heading towards college, you won’t know which school to transfer to, and we can’t help you decide.” I was floored! I said you expect a 13 yr old to know what she wants to do in college while she’s in 8th grade? So we stayed at her current school, and now that I keep hounding one of the 3 college counselors trying to find out if her junior year is rigorous enough, she keeps quoting a georgetown admin dir saying “take the most rigorous courses the school has to offer that are doable for your child.” So frustrating. Her school has 6 1hr classes and she takes a 7th and has a free. However, if we were to switch her to our local public school, she would take 8 35min classes a day, but they don’t rotate the schedule. So she would have every class every day which she doesn’t currently take - they do the A, B, C, D, E, rotation. In public you only have to take 4 yrs English, 2 yrs language, 3 yrs social sciences and 2 yrs math and 4 yrs PE to graduate, whereas, in her school, she has to take 4 yrs of everything plus electives.</p>
<p>Electives are half year of microeconomics, half year of macro and AP economics is a separate full year course we my D is. They also have forensics, marine biology, oceanography, architecture and quite a few other half year courses so you combine 2. At the public school they had journalism, sports journalism, broadcast journalism, interior and fashion design, entrepreneurship - much more interesting choices. They don’t have colleges though coming to visit in junior and senior year - don’t know if that is just the public school here or it’s all public schools. In her school, they have different admin directors from diff colleges coming throughout the year so we don’t have to go to those “8 of the best colleges” meetings they hold all over the country; or the combined Ivy college meetings. </p>
<p>Right now, my D is frustrated with our pending divorce, and she is in a school with a lot of ultra-wealthy kids (S’s and D’s of hedge funders, celebrities, etc.). The super wealthies keep to themselves, and there are a few down to earth kids like my D. We switched her from public to private in 5th gr only because our public school wouldn’t skip her so she was bored to tears. They accept kids born in the same year, so if you are born January 1st of '95 or Dec 31 '95, you are in the same grade. That’s a whole year’s difference since she is an early Jan baby. So in her current grade, it incorporates kids born from July’94-Jan’95 which levels the playing field and the classes are much more rigorous (sometimes too much so). </p>
<p>I spoke with my Dr about the switch (he deals with adolescent education and is on the admin comm of a top 8 school), and he said based on her grades and curriculum, that if she switched (from his experience of what he’s seen in the past), she might dumb down, and I said or she might be top in her class (trying to be positive). I won’t have much choice; however, if the divorce goes through, I might not be living in the same town anyway, so we’d have to switch again (wouldn’t try doing what that poor mother did in CT that put her kid in a better town’s school and is now facing 20 yrs and a $15,000 fine. That’s not the solution! the solution is to provide better schools in the poorer areas so these poor kids have a better chance in life). </p>
<p>My D says right now she’d like to study something where she’d make a lot of money quickly (hedge funds, inv banking - ha! she hates math so forget that!) and then go do what she really wants to do (singer/songwriter, theater, photography, journalism (none of which pay a lot for the most part unless you are a Katie Couric or other news anchor).Her father suggested consulting like him and a good business school after college. I’m worried about just getting her into college at this point without her burning out. She came up with an alternative. She likes DreamWorks, and they have a very creative work environment and were on the top 100 companies to work for. They have right on their website, internships (college level) and entry level positions, and it tells you what to major in - animation or engineering - and then gives a list of colleges that support those majors (they are not endorsements just lists). But I thought that was so helpful! She has no artistic talent unfortunately, but perhaps a few animation courses over the summer might peak her interest.</p>
<p>She keeps changing day to day and I imagine she will throughout college too as most kids do.</p>