<p>Congrat to Geo’s D.</p>
<p>Re: AP rant. I have a nephew who took all the AP classes he could get. The result was he “used up” all his freshman level electives/humanities. He still had to take his calculus before he took his physics before he took his thermo, etc. Those AP clases are great for exploratory, but don’t expect them to give you an edge on getting done with college early. In other words don’t worry about the credits just the learning.</p>
<p>AP classes mean different things to different students. In our middle of the road HS, many, many kids take APs because they are excepted by the state schools as basic credit. They plan on going to state schools and they will graduate in 3 years, saving thier parents money. Other kids, however, take the APs because they want to be considered by higher tier schools. If they don’t have those APs, they won’t be looked at by HPY on down. The bottom line is that some kids (NMF kind of kids) just do well at most things because the are THAT smart. They work hard too. Some kids (like my kids) are smart, but not NMF kind of smart. So they need to take APs to show colleges that they have “it” too. When we begin this process, it is hard to tell what kind of kid we have. Or, we don’t want to close doors for our kids. We put them on the AP tread mill because we believe it is the best way forward, especially if they are not NMF material. Many kids end up going to schools that they could have gotten into if they didn’t do all that extra “stuff”. It is really hard to tell before we all begin the journey. It only becomes clear after it’s all done. </p>
<p>DD has a friend who is a brilliant math student. Took the ACT and scored a 34 with no prep. One and done. He takes all these high level math classes, even at the local university. He takes one science a year, not 2 like most of the other kids here. He is not in AP English or AP history. He’s going to go places because he really is brilliant in his future chosen field. Not taking AP English or APUSH is not going to hurt him in the least. However, most of us have kids who aren’t as clearly talented like that or know exactly what they want to do. So they take more APs and are under more stress. It just is the way it is.</p>
<p>My son is in AP World as well. His class is hard but the teacher does give them opportunities for extra credit and he has learned that he actually needs to study. My older two took APs. For D1 she could use hers to fulfill GE requirements at her college which gave her a lot of wiggle room to explore. For S2 his APs didn’t count for GEs but they do count for units and he has sophomore standing as a freshman. However, the best thing I think is that the rigorous AP classes prepared them better for the rigors of college.</p>
<p>Geogirl - congrats to your DD, and your first paragraph of post 1822 is spot on. Nobody has a crystal ball. I have never seen it expressed so clearly.</p>
<p>Depending on the school, “just” taking an Honors class may mean that you’re still with the unmotivated students. Our school has regular, honors and then AP levels. The regular level classes my D’s took/take made them crazy because the kids would act out, not pay attention, talk etc. The Honors level classes are better but if there’s an AP version of the same class then the motivated students are all in there. The work load isn’t always that much heavier in AP vs. Honors (our honors classes have all kinds of state and district hoops to jump through to make sure that they’re really “honors” so there’s a lot of ridiculous end of marking period portfolio projects due.) </p>
<p>What our AP teachers always say is that it is usually the first time that these kids are challenged. They’re breezed through school without every really figuring out how to study or take notes. I remember that first test where the highest grade was an 81 and the average was in the 60’s. Those kids were stunned. I don’t necessarily think that’s a bad thing. Better to find out in HS than in college. And the kids who don’t want to work that hard can drop back for junior year. And the ones who do, start junior year with their eyes wide open about what taking 3 AP classes means. </p>
<p>As for AP credit, it depends on where your student attends. D1 walked into her freshman year with 25 credits. Didn’t have to take basic freshman English or the intro history classes (which made her happy: as a history major she was able to go right into upper level classes.) Got a science and math class out of the way too. As her freshman year abruptly ends (she goes to U of Alabama where classes & finals have been canceled due to the tornadoes) she officially has junior standing.</p>
<p>OMG RobD! Is your DD ok? The pictures from the area look devastating. You must have been beside yourself with worry. Hope all is well and her sophmore year ends without such a big bang.</p>
<p>Thanks for asking GeoGirl! Yes, she is fine. They all took cover in the 1st floor stairwell and then the RA’s started screaming at them to “get down” (the tornado was visible through the windows at it passed the back of Bryant Denny stadium.) The campus miraculously was missed by a hair, but the surrounding off campus housing and businesses are gone. Classes were canceled Thursday & today; she got a ride home from a friend and about 5 minutes into the ride they got the text that their finals were canceled. We’ll be going down mid week to pack up her dorm. Thank goodness for cell phones and texting; I knew she was fine right away, but it was still a pretty stressful day and a half. </p>
<p>And I meant to congratulate your D on the acceptance into the engineering program. How cool for her! The best part of those programs is that they get to be with other kids who are as smart and motivated as they are and who are interested in the same thing. She’ll have a blast :)</p>
<p>RobD, just wanted to say again how glad I am your D1 is a-ok!</p>
<p>Today is my D2 ('13er)'s 16th Birthday - she was concocting a whole plan with friends so I imagine we’ll see her should they need transportation or funding :)</p>
<p>RobD - Glad for the update on your daughter! </p>
<p>Geogirl - Yay! What wonderful news!</p>
<p>My kid:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Meds do help, but are out of his system far too early to help for homework.</p></li>
<li><p>We are NOT using a specialized ADD doctor. We use the peditirician who does ADD once/week. His insurance is an HMO and I haven’t looked into cost outside of referral. Seems like time to investigate. The coach has heavily hinted that his doctor is too conservative with med changes. </p></li>
<li><p>He does use a planner, but somehow manages to only half complete the assignment or forgets to hand it in.</p></li>
<li><p>I can’t afford changing to another private school. Also, the idea of repeating a grade does not appeal to son. I wish GAP years were allowed in high school.</p></li>
<li><p>AP courses may be ‘easier’ for my son because homework/projects counts for less of the overall grade. </p></li>
<li><p>I need to give up at this point. I told him if his final grades aren’t above 3.5 then he has to do cyber school (which has block scheduling and may be much more suited to his learning style). I have many other things going on in my personal life and at work. At this point both my son & I are furstrated and just need to plug through the next 6 weeks.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Son is only taking APGovt this year. That test isn’t until the second week of APs.
Son wants to take 4 AP courses next year. I am so crazy, I’ve already looked at the 2012 schedule to be sure the APs he wants are spread out enough for testing. At his school, the AP test is not the final. Son will still have another month of class, 2 projects and a final after the AP test for his course.</p>
<p>AP and Natl Merit material – And don’t forget NMSF is very different in different states. IMO there is a big gap between the lowest state scores and the highest state scores (said by a Mom who would qualify in some states, but unlikely to in NJ).</p>
<p>I expect AP courses will not effect my kid’s college acceptances, but will play a role in helping to narrow a field of study.</p>
<p>Oh and congrats to Geo’s D!</p>
<p>I meant to comment on this earlier Longhaul, but D1 has ADHD inattentive along with NVLD and its accompanying executive functioning issues. She’s on an extended release med and the doctor has mentioned a few times that if she had a lot of homework or (in the case of college) classes that went on later in the day, that it would be appropriate for her to have a boost dose of Ritalin later in the day. She never seemed to need that so we didn’t go that route, but that could be of help to your son.</p>
<p>“Boost” Ritalin is what the ADD coach has repeatedly recommended we request, however the doctor does not want to go that route because:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>4 years ago when he stared meds he cried and was very emotional on a similiar drug. </p></li>
<li><p>It is more addictive.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>We have tried short acting amphetimine salts (Adderall generic) and low dose amphetimine salts extended release (Adderall XR) in 5mg and 10 mg. It has NO effect.</p>
<p>The doctors reason #1 is not valid to me. It WAS an emotional time - The “perfect” kid was suddenly unable to keep up with school work, was depressed and subject to much testing and psych. He saw all this as unnecessary at the time.</p>
<p>RobD, I couldn’t have said it better than you did in your post #1825. That is one of reasons why my D wants to take AP classes. I remembered reading either in this thread or another that your older D was at UA and when I saw the destruction yesterday, I thought of her. I wanted to ask about her, but thought that might sound creepy (my kids’ term). I am glad she is okay and on her way home!</p>
<p>blueshoe, over on the 2014 thread we ask just about anything of everyone. By the time we’re done here, we’ll know each other very well. ;)</p>
<p>^^^yup we’re a very familiar group ;)</p>
<p>Longhaul: D is on Focalin XR. It has seemed to work well for her. One thing I heard along the way, which resonated with d’s situation is that the ADHD drugs help the kids focus so that they can then concentrate on working on the EF issues. So if the drugs are helping your son during the day, but then they wear off in time for homework, well, he can’t work on the EF stuff and stay organized if he’s distracted, KWIM? D has the EF stuff pretty under control at this point, and I know she doesn’t feel the need to take the meds as often in HS; she’ll often skip them on the days that she only has 2 classes. But it took almost 4 years of daily meds to get there. </p>
<p>And as for being more addictive…the thing that scared me the most (and the info that made my DH see the light about trying medication when he was adamantly against it) was that research shows that ADHD kids who are un- or under-treated have a high rate of self medicating. I’d much rather have my kid on a black box substance that I pick up from a pharmacy every day, than something they get from another kid.</p>
<p>ETA: Thanks Blueshoe!</p>
<p>Longhaul - you are in a situation that many find themselves. I hear your despair. Please do not give up on your son. You need to know that he does not do this because he chooses to. This is what ADD is. This is not your fault. It is also not his fault. His inability to do homework or meet his intellectual potential is linked to his essentially untreated ADD, NOT to his desire to achieve or his desire to please you. He does want to do what you want him to do. He just can’t. Really, he can’t. </p>
<p>I hope that my next comments will not offend you. I do truly want the best for you and your DS. GET ANOTHER DOCTOR NOW!!! Your pediatrician is a “dabbler” of the worst kind. Totally uninformed. Do not go to a pediatrician. You want a child psychiatrist or a pediatric neurologist. These are the specialists that do best with ADD kids. There are regular docs that do well too, but you have no time to waste on trying to find them. Do not go to a psychologist. Ask your life coach if she has anyone she recommends. Otherwise, ask your HMO for their list of child psychiatrists. They will give you a list of psychiatrists that are all mixed together. Call each one and ask what percent of their practice is children (100% is ideal). Then ask what % of kids they treat are ADHD. Ideally you want to find someone who does a good percent of work with ADHD kids. If your HMO does not have a child psychiatrist, tell them you need one and that they have to pay the costs for an out of network doctor since they don’t have an in-network one. It will take time to do all this, but do it in parallel to getting your DS to the correct doctor. </p>
<p>Finding the right medication and finding the right dose of that medication are trial and error. If Adderal doesn’t work for your kid, there are 6 other meds that might (Focalin, Vyanase, Concerta, Strattea, the Daytrana patch just to name a few) . Perhaps you can spend the summer finding the right med and dose for your son. Perhaps his soph. year grades won’t be stellar. However, you need to win the war, not this year’s battle. Get him ready for next year. Then he’ll be able to get into a good strong college where he will soar. Best of luck to you and your DS. </p>
<p>I hope that I have not offended you or anyone else on the board. My heart breaks when I see parents and kids struggling because they don’t have access to the right kind of doctors.</p>
<p>RobD - wow. This is the 1st time I’ve seen another parent of a child with NLD (NVLD). I cannot tell you how often I feel alone out “here.” My son was diagnosed in 3rd grade and I cannot describe how much he, and I, have been through to get the most basic accommodations. When he was younger, we also had issues with ADHD. However, it turns out that most of ADHD issues were not as serious as we first thought. My son does much better socially than many NLD kids and I think he does an amazing job at navigating some very difficult waters. He is surprisingly willing to take risks, try new things, and face challenges without blinking.
We still have not decided if we will continue his 504 in college. Is your NVLD D in college? Does she have accommodations?<br>
Many thanks!</p>
<p>PSM: D1 is indeed in college; just finished her freshman year. She never had accommodations; our district doesn’t “recognize” NVLD, although she had an IEP because she qualified for GT services.</p>
<p>Luckily (?) the academic poop didn’t hit the fan until mid middle school & her GT consultant and our ped (who I love and manages her Rx’s) got us connected with a fantastic tutor who worked with her on the EF issues. She was very self motivated, as she had always self identified as one of the “smart” kids. Looking back, our path was fairly smooth, with some bumps in 7th & 8th grade.</p>
<p>“I wish GAP years were allowed in high school.” Who says they’re not? My D took a “gap year” between her sophomore and junior years to be an exchange student because this seemed like the best time to do that. I just informed her school that she would be doing so.</p>
<p>Re. mixed amphetamine salts, my 13 yo 7th grader takes these. She is skinny because she is such a picky eater. It took a while to find a dosage that had an effect. Even though she weighs less than 90 lbs, she is on 15 mg twice a day plus 10 mg after school to give her a chance to do her homework. It is the least expensive alternative. She really can’t function without it. She drives us all crazy when she is not on it. Maybe your son just needs a higher dose.</p>
<p>Hey everyone! Just got back from several days at our house/farm in Arkansas. We were hit by tornadoes but nothing like in Alabama. RobD - so glad your D is safe! We lost a 200 yr old tree and a few outbuildings, but family all OK. Some of our fields (with crops) are underwater as we got 7 inches of rain in one night. All in all, could be worse. I really feel for the folks in Alabama (and TN and MS and everywhere else). Weather this year has just been bizarre. And ironically, we left Texas as the wildfires were raging due to a drought, and then ended up in the middle of all the storms in AR! Can’t win!</p>
<p>S2 left today for a 5 day “field trip” to Disneyworld. It is with the school choir. They are having a choral workshop for about an hour one day so that the whole trip counts as “educational.” Schools these days! At least they’ll have fun.</p>