<p>CT1417 – I would respond personally, but the FBI was at my door this morning at 6 am, so I’m posting through a friend. That’s how dangerous these things are!</p>
<p>CT - There was a thread talking about significant discounts at some of these smaller schools. The caveat is to check the bond rating on any school that’s offering your student significant merit/preferential packaging/discount. Obviously some are skating just too close to the edge. </p>
<p>I don’t know if anyone else caught the thread that the following article was linked:
[The</a> Admission Arms Race: Six Ways Colleges Game Their Numbers - ProPublica](<a href=“http://www.propublica.org/article/the-admission-arms-race-six-ways-colleges-can-game-their-numbers]The”>The Admission Arms Race: Six Ways Colleges Game Their Numbers — ProPublica)</p>
<p>Most of these aren’t news to any of us…They use snap apps to up the number of students applying to lower their admissions rate, they use demonstrated interest to reject students using them as a safety, they use binding ED to fill their classes to control yield, they lie in reporting.</p>
<p>There was one point I disagreed with and one that kinda blew me off my feet (although I don’t know why at this point). The disagreement was that test optional schools do this to up their ranking by not reporting lower stats. It is my understanding, at least at Wake Forest which is test optional, that you do not have to send your scores when you apply but you DO if accepted for institutional reporting (i.e. common data set, USNews, etc.). So I see a disconnect there. The part that really grabbed me, and my real reason for passing this on was the following:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Wow! We all understand demonstrated interest, know some schools use this and it’s listed on their common data set. The idea that they are following weather or not their emails are open, the length of time of a phone call, logging in to obsessively check their application status, really?!. Anyway, S3 is horrible about email that isn’t essential. I immediately told him for schools he is looking at to simply open any communication. I don’t care if he reads it, just open it! Oy, one more thing to worry about.</p>
<p>Hi Blue–yes, I have been actively following and perhaps too actively participating in all of these threads about liquidity, endowments, discounting, etc. The subject has concerned me for quite a while. I am worried about schools folding due to financial pressures, tightening of federal student loan policies, and increased acceptances of MOOCs.</p>
<p>I read the thread that you posted here and then clicked through, out of curiosity, to see which school had the top ten # of apps (free app policy driving some of that). Was interesting, but as you said, nothing new really. </p>
<p>Does Wake (or any other school) need to post the stats of the enrolled class? I ask b/c if you look at Wake’s 2012-2013 CDS, it simply identifies the percentage of enrolled students who submitted ACT & SAT scores and the scores for those students. 16% of the enrolled class did not submit standardized test scores. (I have no idea what percentage of the accepted class or applicants did not submit.) Is there another place this info would be reported? I just went to section C to look this up but I may well be missing something.</p>
<p><a href=“Home - Office of Institutional Research”>Home - Office of Institutional Research;
<p>I do wonder why schools move to test-optional, but Wake’s app and interview process is so unique & quirky, that perhaps this change shouldn’t be viewed as being far from the norm for Wake.</p>
<p>I am guessing that 2012 was Wake’s first year as test optional as the 2011 CDS shows 100% of students reporting ACT or SAT. I know almost nothing about Wake, but am instead just trying to interpret the info provided.</p>
<p>CT - I’m sorry, I do remember you posting on that thread. I only posted once or twice. Poor memory. :o</p>
<p>From the WF website:
[SAT-ACT</a> Optional](<a href=“http://admissions.wfu.edu/apply/sat.php]SAT-ACT”>http://admissions.wfu.edu/apply/sat.php)</p>
<p>I did look at their CDS you linked. It lists SAT/ACT data for enrolled students. The data is for 1,033, 201 fewer students then were in the first year class (1,234) so there is a disconnect there.</p>
<p>I agree that WF has a very holistic admissions process and has always relied heavily on their interview, transcript, and essays, so the move away from scores isn’t a big leap. Having said that many students still report very competitive scores as part of their application package there. They don’t fit the mold of what you typically think of as test-optional. They are the only top 30 university I believe.</p>
<p>I’m b-a-a-a-c-k! Ya’ll have been busy these last few weeks. Life has been unusually busy here at Chez Spy (even by our nutty standards)</p>
<p>NewHaven–Congrats to you and your daughter! What a fabulous opportunity and reward for all of her hard work.</p>
<p>Class2015-- What have I missed? Why is the FBI at your door?</p>
<p>Spygirl was not happy with her first SAT scores. Compared to her PSAT, her writing score soared, thanks to Grandma for SAT prep. Her reading score dropped slightly, but significantly compared to practice tests and her math score plummeted. Not sure WTH was going on during test day but the score ended up being exactly equal to the PSAT.</p>
<p>This was quite a wake up call for DD as she thought she could breeze right through these tests the way she does her homework. To say she was stunned by her scores is an understatement. So now we’re doing a paid prep course and she’s taking the whole testing thing much more seriously.</p>
<p>We did visit two schools over spring break and I will soon post a trip report.</p>
<p>Good to ‘see’ you Agent99 - Sorry testing was frustrating for spygirl. The math section dogged my older son who was well on to Calc by that time. He needed to go back and brush up on the basic algebra skills he’d forgotten. He ended up doing beautifully once he identified where his weak spots were. Since your mom was doing this with her you’re probably already aware, but khanacademy dot org is an excellent resource for refreshing these skills. There are short video lessons on skills for all levels of math and science. My kids use it all the time, but we found it during SAT prep. Unfortunately sometimes they need one test where they don’t get the score they are expecting to shift gears to thinking “okay, maybe this isn’t going to be so easy”. I’m sure she will do well on the next test, and she already has writing covered, so just CR & M to really prep for.</p>
<p>I’ll be looking forward to your review of the schools you visited. I’m enjoying hearing about everyone’s experiences. :)</p>
<p>Blue…i can absolutely validate that the schools in some instances do monitor applicants electronic activity. Our school just had a very interesting mock admission session for parents (in one room) and students (in another) where we “reviewed for admission” 4 application packets. What was interesting was that each room (there were probably 10 or so) was headed by a real adcom rep who was participating in the college fair afterwards (about 100 schools…from local/state u to ivies)…in our particular room the rep which was from a top engineering program and had previously also worked for an Ivy had really taken the mock serious and had carefully reviewed the packets and just laid out cases for admission/waitlist/deny. Most interesting was his lack of interest regarding the letters of rec, the importance of whether the applicant had visited or at least “shown the love”, and had the applicant pushed and achieved academically IN THE CONTEXT OF HIS SCHOOL (if you’re school offers APs, you need to be in them and getting As or A-s). And he definitely said that they monitor how many times the student logs in to the school account, especially after an admit has been given as it tells them whether the school is still in the running for enrollment…that may play ball and chase</p>
<p>Hi. I posted this in the 3.0 to 3.3 GPA thread, but thought I might get some additional opinions here too.</p>
<p>Opinion wanted:
Yesterday, D’s college counselor strongly suggested we visit Ithaca College because it’s so close to Syracuse on our summer road tour in late Aug. Ithaca doesn’t have a Greek system, but looks nice on paper and is probably a good fit for D’s grades/SAT scores.</p>
<p>Would anyone like to weigh in on comparing the two? D plans to major in marketing or management with a minor in Spanish. Working in the fashion industry as a buyer or manufacturer’s rep is a possible goal. (Our last stop is the Fashion Institute of Technology in NYC).</p>
<p>D’s other top considerations are all Big 10 and Pac 12 OOS schools (Wisc, Ill, Ind, Purdue, Oregon State, U of Oregon, U of Colorado-Boulder, U of Ariz.). Washington State is a financial safety, but she’s not too excited about going there.</p>
<p>She likes “leafy” campuses in smaller college towns vs. in-city urban settings.</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>Trip Report - Gonzaga University - Spokane, Washington</p>
<p>To begin with, we really didn’t realize just how far Spokane is from Portland. Yes, one can look on a map and look at the mileage, estimated time etc. but the distance doesn’t really sink in until you’ve driven through hundreds of miles of wheat fields and high desert. On the plus side, we stopped in Hood River and had a fabulous lunch. For you non-North Westerners, Hood River is in the Columbia River Gorge, an amazingly beautiful area.</p>
<p>Spring is a busy time for Gonzaga, and we were one of 6 tours in the morning slot! Gonzaga is a nice campus, meticulously maintained with a gorgeous new library devoted to every learning style (there’s even a dust free floor), impressive business & engineering buildings, and of course, the obligatory & fabulous basketball arena and student gym.</p>
<p>If DD based her opinion solely on the tour, she would’ve discounted the school within the first 30 minutes. Our tour guides were pleasant, had mastered the now seemingly mandatory Backwards Walking 101, and were very excited about their school.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the first 45 minutes of the tour was all about basketball, other sports, clubs, basketball, concerts, basketball & food 
Barely a word about academics. Finally the last 18 minutes (yes I timed it) there were lackluster discussions about classes and majors. </p>
<p>Our guides must of sensed the growing dismay among the parental units as they mentioned that normally tours begin with academics but due to the sheer number of people on campus our tour had been “flopped.” Which didn’t really explain the lack of academic knowledge or the very brief tours of the science & engineering building, but oh well.</p>
<p>After the tour, Spygirl & met with a professor in her interested field. That changed everything for DD as the professor was very knowledgeable and candid about the school and the physics program.</p>
<p>Following our chat with the prof, DD met with an ad com privately and then all three of us talked about the school and scholarships DD would be eligible for. She did not mention merit money or even a range. But Spygirl did not have her scores at that point.</p>
<p>Dorms – Old but seemingly maintained.
Food – Sodexo so, YUCK.
Spokane – Not so pretty, some rough neighborhoods, but doable.
Pollen count – low!
Weather – All 4 seasons – dry and COLD in winter.</p>
<p>Wondering</p>
<p>Are you all finding help on threads here re schools? With k1 most schools were listed. With k2 most are not…and there are few if any trip reports.</p>
<p>Nice LACs and yet almost no one reports on them no are are there discussion threads…</p>
<p>momofwon - I don’t know too much about Ithaca but if your DD is interested in fashion merchandising you should check out Marist. It’s a beautiful campus right on the Hudson river in Poughkeepsie and they have a fashion merchandising program. And a campus in Florence Italy! We were there a week ago and while my DD is not interested in fashion, they do talk a lot about it in there info session and on the tour. It does give merit aid, is SAT optional and costs less to begin with than most other of the northeast liberal arts schools.</p>
<p>fogfog–I find with some schools that even though there is a forum, there is very little activity. I am guilty of not filing trip reports–sorry!</p>
<p>I would be interested in advice from people on this forum…my D, class of '14 is taking the SAT in May. She has been taking a prep class, but I am not sure how seriously she is taking the exam. Practice tests have put her in the 2020 range of total score, with math being the weak link. Her grades are not great, so this test will be important for her chances. Today I was toying with the idea of her planning on taking it again immediately in June, before she knows her score? or do most people find out how they did, prep over the summer (hopefully!), and then take it again in the fall? Thank you for any thoughts on this topic!</p>
<p>GoldenWest: I asked my son if he wanted to take the SAT in June (he took it in March), and he said no. He wants the summer to spend some time studying so he could do a bit better. With a rigorous schedule and several ECs, he needs the break before taking it in October.</p>
<p>Speaking of Son '14, I cannot decide what makes me happier. The fact that he came within a second of setting a new school record in the 800-meter run (ran his personal best time, too) or that he did so well on his BC exam that he definitely on pace to score a 5 on the exam. The kid is working his butt off. He even remarked that if he had not been so tired, he would have spent time researching for his English paper after we got home last night.</p>
<p>fogfog - for both oldest and youngest (my '14), I’ve had to find better college info on a major homeschool board I also frequent. That one simply gets a wider group of parents on it (worldwide - all ranges and reaches in life). This board is a bit more dedicated to the higher performers and many with “less than that” seem hesitant to post anything. </p>
<p>Youngest is not homeschooled, but there’s still more “other” college info on that board. I asked a question here about Eckerd (they even have a forum here) and there’s very little response (though my question did eventually get answered). I asked questions there and found alumni, people who lived in St Pete, and others who had been to the school who were all willing to share.</p>
<p>Ditto that for Covenant (a SMALL Christian LAC). When oldest wanted Christian, it seemed no one here had even heard of that school. On that board? Far more info including alumni, etc. </p>
<p>The list of schools kids go to on that board varies more too - from community colleges and small very local schools to Ivy/Stanford, etc.</p>
<p>THIS board is a wealth of info for schools in the Top 100 or so (if you ignore the prestige-only folks’ advice). Below that - not so much. It’s also great for financial aid advice and some other “basics.” I “use” both boards.</p>
<p>Just my two cents.</p>
<p>momreads - Congrats on your guy doing so well!</p>
<p>Agentyninetynine – I’m fine – just a victim of my own lame humor!</p>
<p>fogfog – I know what you mean – with D’11, it was like we were planning a trip to Disneyworld – there was tons of information on it. Now, it’s as if I’m planning to visit the ancient Roman ruins in the south of France – I’ve found a few guide books, and some knowledgeable travelers, but not nearly as much information.</p>
<p>Maybe it’s the learning process or the different temperament of my two kids, but I am finding this journey more interesting and authentic.</p>
<p>blue - I find the financial discussions of the colleges fascinating. I hardly venture out of these threads though because cc people can be really nasty if you say something people and people don’t agree.</p>
<p>In a nutshell - here’s my opinion - colleges are too bloated - too many administrators, turning schools into country clubs and getting too focused on their rankings. Parents in the US are pretty much just bargain hunters for the most part seeing a college degree as a commodity and playing the price is right. Colleges are turning the tables by making ED the best chance for admissions. Have you been on a college campus that isn’t under construction of some sort? I haven’t. </p>
<p>On a different topic - I find it hilarious that schools track the usage of their portals. I had no idea, and I was the one tracking that all info was received and where it was in the process, not my son. lol </p>
<p>Oh and the glitch isn’t working for me this time for the act… looks like I’ll have to just find out at the intended time.</p>
<p>Way to go on the personal record, son of Momreads. And he’s rocking calculus! </p>
<p>FogFog: I also like the 3.0 - 3.3 gpa threads and the Jewish 3.0 thread. People are kind and helpful and I’ve discovered so many colleges I never knew existed. Not that Spygirl would actually leave the west coast, but ds’17 might.</p>
<p>Eyemamom: I tried the glitch yesterday but her records weren’t up. I wonder if they score the west last.</p>
<p>akmom124: Thanks for the info on Marist. I’m not familiar with the school, but will take a look :-). D still has her heart set on going to a BIG school complete with greek row, lots of school spirit (Div I pride), a wide range of majors, etc. The career in fashion is a long shot so she’s focusing on attending the best business school she can get into. She has great sales instincts and will focus on marketing or management in college which should give her a wide net of options. Taking a fashion merch class or two might be on her radar, but she’s virtually sure she doesn’t want to get a degree in that specialty because it might limit future job opportunities.</p>
<p>momreads - congrats on your S’s BC success and pb run!</p>
<p>Creekland - care to share that home school board site?</p>
<p>And, welcome to CC, GoldenWest!</p>