Parents of the HS Class of 2014

Parents of Class of 20xx
5461

<p>I know there are some pretty experienced parents on this thread so I thought I’d post this question here … but it’s something that just popped into my head as I was looking at different college websites where they describe the admissions process.</p>

<p>For example, Vandy says (somewhere - maybe an adcon blog) that they look at the application and how well the student scores/gpa/extra curricular activies are in RELATION TO THEIR HIGH SCHOOL.</p>

<p>Let’s say for example Sarah Senior goes to a rural southern high school. She scores an 1950. But the avg. SAT score in her high school is 1500. Sarah is off the charts at her school - but way below the norm when it comes to top schools.</p>

<p>Travis Twelfthgrader attends a competitive private high school in New England. He scores a 2200 on the SAT. His school’s avg is also 2200. Relative to his high school, his score is average. But he’s beats Sarah’s score hands down.</p>

<p>Let’s just say that for giggles, all other facts about them are equal. GPA, extracurriculars, blah blah blah. </p>

<p>I’ve heard adcons say that they look for how well an applicant does in relation to their school - the most common example being, if the school only offers 3 APs, it won’t be held against them.</p>

<p>Is it also the case for SAT and/or ACT scores as well?</p>

<p>Would Sarah & Travis be equally as competitive?</p>

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<p>With the caveat that I don’t really know the answer for sure, and am mainly just going on an accumulation of “gut feeling” over the past few years…</p>

<p>I think the “in relation to their high school” stuff applies more to GPA (totally different from school to school), class rank, access to challenging classes, access to interesting EC’s etc. than it does to SAT/ACT scores. To some extent they may give Sarah’s test scores a little leeway knowing that her school does not prepare kids as well for those tests, and she probably didn’t have access to in-person prep classes, etc. I would imagine that some top schools do give kids like Sarah a break on the test score expectation, and some would not.</p>

<p>I think a top school may wonder if Sarah is going to be able to handle the workload at their school. She hasn’t really had the opportunity to prove herself. They probably have a lower bound “cut-off” for standardized test scores below which they won’t go, but it’s probably lower than 1950. Some top schools have a summer-before-freshman-year program that they require poorly-prepared students to attend before starting their freshman year, with the goal of giving them the chance to strengthen their basic skills that may not have been available in a poor high school. </p>

<p>I would say that if everything else was actually equal, rather than “equal relative to what’s available” then Sarah would be the stronger candidate. Because a rural kid has VASTLY less EC opportunities than a kid at a college prep private school. There are no robotics teams, model UN, debate club, honor societies, and so on in most rural schools. So if Sarah and Travis actually did all the same stuff then either Travis hasn’t take advantage of much, or Sarah has truly gone out of her way to find opportunities. </p>

<p>And so you see why it becomes impossible to just isolate one variable – it really does have to be a holistic thing. </p>

<p>At most “top” schools Sarah will get more points for “geography diversity” than Travis, because the top schools get tons of applicants from the NE prep schools. </p>

<p>If it’s an engineering school, the female applicant will be more desirable. For a liberal arts college, the male applicant. </p>

<p>And before anyone goes off thinking, “Lucky Sarah, she doesn’t have to bust her butt the way the NE prep school kids do, and she still gets a chance,” remember that she is going to be far less well prepared to survive at that top school, and the butt-busting will begin in earnest for her when she arrives!</p>

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<p>Thanks blueiguana. I told her about that which made her feel better.</p>

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<p>Thanks for your thoughts mathmomvt … </p>

<p>I’m not necessarily trying to decode the admissions process … just wondering outloud on how they can possibly compare apples to oranges. And how (if at all) they can equalize the two.</p>

<p>On to other news … it’s June 2nd and it’s freezing it my house. Someone stole my summer … I wish they’d bring her back.</p>

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<p>Of course they can’t equalize them. For the borderline cases, it’s all a matter of which story seems more attractive to a particular set of adcoms or seems to “balance the class” better. There’s nothing “fair” about it – there’s a huge element of randomness in admissions to the top schools. </p>

<p>All I can say is that it’s much easier (and IMO less random) to get into those tippy top schools for grad school. So, if your kid is in the reach lottery, set reasonable expectations (that they won’t get in, since 90% of qualified candidates don’t!) and remember that a motivated student can find opportunities at any undergrad school to distinguish themselves for admission to a more “elite” grad school, if that’s what they still want.</p>

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<p>interesting question you posed KaMaMom. I would tend to agree with Mathmom, I also think schools would be more lenient re: APs, but less so on SAT scores</p>

<p>does anyone know of a reasonable hotel ($100 range) in walking distance to Vandy?</p>

5467

<p>I would also think SAT/ACT would be more solid while GPA would be more fluid among schools. I also think that they would look at APs based on what is available. If there only 3 offered, the student had better take all 3 - while if there are 20 offered, then maybe 6-10 would be expected??? </p>

<p>lindz - I can’t help with walking distance to Vandy - when we went, we did the Priceline route and got a great deal ($65) at the Millenium Maxwell House Hotel, but definitely not within walking. But with that rate, you could rent a car! :)</p>

<p>Speaking of hotels - anyone know of a reasonable hotel ($100 range or less as well!) in the Houston area near Rice? With MD Anderson being right there, I’m seeing that many of the hotels do offer shuttles to the hospital/Rice, but the rates are very high.</p>

<p>Thinking of you, fogfog. Hard thing to go through!</p>

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<p>Lindz … I asked a hotel question before we visited in Oct. Here’s my thread: </p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/vanderbilt-university/1400868-hotel-vandy-visit.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/vanderbilt-university/1400868-hotel-vandy-visit.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Hope it helps!</p>

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<p>Other than not being southern, I work at Sarah Senior’s high school. Yes, she is one of the top kids at our school and no, Sarah won’t be able to compete with Travis. We VERY seldom get kids into top schools, but when we do, they also have 2200+ SAT scores (and are considered geniuses here). At that point I think they get an advantage, but barring any other hooks, in other cases, I actually think we get more rejections than Travis’ school would have. I think adcoms have figured out our students aren’t all that well prepared and are likely to have a tough time at a rigorous college and are sparing them the agony. Those who do get top scores have overcome a poor foundation and are likely to do well.</p>

<p>It’s common here to have kids take our top classes (and do well) - then test into remedial classes at a 4 year school. Adcoms are looking for students who are likely to succeed. To get in with lower test scores you really need a hook or to be extremely lucky.</p>

<p>And yes, from my experience, test scores do correlate with how students have done at school in MOST cases. I’m rarely surprised when kids share scores. Sometimes scores don’t correlate well with how one will do in college, but most often, that’s when the major isn’t score dependent OR the student gets distracted and doesn’t put forth the work effort (most will freely admit this to me - perhaps not to parents).</p>

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<p>Argh!!! Group projects! D14 was up at 2:30 am to check if certain group members had finished their portion of the project (hard copy due at 7:30 this morning). Texted me at 2:30 am to make sure that she was out of bed when I was this morning (5:30) since the project was not complete. Group project = group grade, so she can’t risk having their lack of work impact her overall grade. I guess she finished up their parts this morning.</p>

<p>Counting the days until summer vacation…</p>

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<p>MImama, maybe our kids were in the same group…? Also a very late last night for d14 here. She was very frustrated because she had worked on her part of the project throughout the weekend, and nobody else started it until 8pm last night. So, as of 12:30am, she was scrambling to pull all parts together. The good news is that tomorrow is finally the last day of school. I have never both wished for and dreaded the end of a school year like I have this one! </p>

<p>Been thinking of you fogfog…</p>

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<p>Hi All</p>

<p>Up and sitting with the first cup of coffee…thinking about the day. </p>

<p>K1 is asleep-- the injury is healing and there needs to be followup with the sports med at the U and the insurance there to pay for the MD visit and followup PT.</p>

<p>K2 is asleep-- gotta get up soon for the ortho appt to have the new retainer fitted.
Yesterday K2 got K1 to go to the beach for a few hours. They had a good time. </p>

<p>Tom K1 has an interview–and hopefully the executive can point K1 in the direction of a summer job or internship. Before the injury, K1 was supposed to be training and competing all summer. So thats why there is the last minute scramble.</p>

<p>So K2s grades are whatever they will be, exams are done …we wait for the end of year report…
and the SAT have been taken… K2 thought this SAT was better than the first.
I hope that translates well. The math score was fine, its the CR and W scores that need improvement. </p>

<p>When I was traveling last month and met that private GC, he led me to believe we were fishing in the right pond and felt from what I said that K2s going to be fine.
When the transcript arrives with the Jr yr on it, and the SAT scores are in etc, I may take him up on giving it all a perusal with respect to “the list”. He is willing to do it as a professional courtesy to me. He did say that we shouldn’t be fooled by the published stats of schools and diversity of various kinds help.(can be gender if the school is heavy in one gender/major, regional if the school generally pulls from nearby etc)</p>

<p>Thanks for everyone’s prayers re mom. It is tough. My brother and his family have been living overseas and come back in July.I think she will “wait” until then. idk. Dad thinks she might make her birthday in Sept or the anniversary etc…He is hoping she will continue to have a will to survive. She was first diagnosed almost 18 yrs ago and the cancer was “missed” in the mammograms from 2 yrs prior. She has done well, though the last 5 yrs have been h3ll…pure h3ll. I sense she is “done” fighting and is battling fear about dying now.</p>

<p>Hugs all around to those in the throws of end of the yr projects.
ACTs are on the agenda here.</p>

5473

<p>I’ve been thinking about you fogfog … I don’t know if this is your first experience w/ hospice, but if it is and you’d like to chat privately, pls. feel free to send me a message. When my MIL entered home hospice, I had lots of questions/concerns and spent a lot of time trying to figure things out for myself and my husband. </p>

<p>Creekland … thanks for the input! The more time I spent thinking about my question, it becomes obvious that adcons don’t give leeway to ACT/SAT testing as it relates to each particular school’s average. If they did do that, I would have to assume that the avg. admitted test score for the tippy-top schools would have to be lower than they are. Btw, tell Sarah I said hello. ;)</p>

<p>This is the last week of school for us. Woohoo! Last day is Thursday and finals are all this week. </p>

<p>For the last 3 years, DD14 has been working toward achieving the IB Diploma. And here we are, with one year left of school, it doesn’t look like it’s going to happen. Sigh. She has tried diligently to put the puzzle pieces together (even taking summer school to make it work) and just found out that, due to administrative schedule changes, there is pretty much no way that it’s going to happen. Honestly though, she’s a bit relieved - it will allow her to take AP Psych which she wouldn’t be able to do if she continued through with IB. </p>

<p>In other news, my DD15 will leave in a little less than 2 wks for a performing arts summer camp at our state flagship. It’s two weeks of intensive training - she’ll get to stay in the dorms, eat in the dining hall … she’s over the moon excited that she was accepted.</p>

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<p>fogfog – I am so sorry for what you’re going through. I feel like I can handle anything life throws at me but don’t touch my mom. </p>

<p>kamamom – our school sends out a “school profile” with the transcript. I think it’s meant to point out any particular aspects of the school or community that might put the GPA in better perspective. </p>

<p>Limping toward the finish line here. ACT this Saturday, then once the scores and final grades are in, I can actually focus on his list. Up til now, it was just a guess as to where his safeties and matches would be. I don’t even want to use the word reaches for him.</p>

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<p>Fogfog - keeping your mom and your family in my prayers!</p>

<p>School is out! Yay! Son attended a retreat with school right after exams/Memorial Day weekend and was gone until Friday night. While we were picking him up at school (30 miles from home) tornados hit our town - about a mile from our house - and we had a rough time getting home, but all was well at our homestead. </p>

<p>The debacle with the English teacher concluded with the teacher giving him Ds or Fs on end of year projects, exam, presentations. Yikes! That was even AFTER DH (the diplomatic one in our family) had spoken with him. DS ended up with his first semester C. Son studied and writes solidly (not spectacularly, but still has never gotten even C’s on papers at any point in his life) so clearly some sort of vendetta/personality clash was in play. Oh well, still honor roll, life goes on, etc. </p>

<p>This morning we are working on ACT prep. This will go on all week. This afternoon summer school starts - PE! These PE requirements kill me. Son is a varsity athlete. Son takes full, demanding academic schedule and would have to drop an honors or AP elective to fit PE into the school year. So we end up paying extra so he can drive into school and lift weights for an hour and a half a day. I know some schools “count” varsity athletics as fulfilling PE requirements. Sure wish that were the case here!</p>

<p>Good luck to all the ACT examinees this weekend! Fingers crossed for all those SAT scores to come in where y’all are hoping for!</p>

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<p>Maryjay - Yikes! about the tornado. The storms have been just awful this spring, hitting way too many populated areas. Sorry about the English teacher - different teacher for senior year, I hope? How many PE credits are required for your son? D14 only needed one trimester, and varsity sports do not count here either.</p>

<p>ACT “this weekend”?!?!?! How’d that happen? Hope there’s some time for cramming this week.</p>

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<p>My sons are not varsity athletes but I wish they counted varsity athletics as fulfilling the PE requirements too – because then the PE class would be filled with other less-athletic kids, less likely to berate one another for their lack of athletic ability… </p>

<p>PE was a killer for us for other reasons as you can imagine from the above. At our HS they have to take 1.5 semesters of PE and .5 of health. The health part was fine…</p>

5478

<p>S plays Varsity baseball, and this year the school allowed varsity athletes to skip PE for one quarter. But when D was a year round varsity athlete, she still had to do PE. So now she’s telling S the “when I was your age I walked a mile in the snow to school” kind of story about having to do PE.</p>

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<p>That seems crazy to not allow varsity sports to count as PE. Our school allows any sport - even Golf to count as their PE requirements (3 semesters required). They even allow one semester to be marching band and it count for PE.</p>

<p>MaryJay - how scary for the tornado to be so close. We were sweating it the other night when the OKC storms headed our direction, but luckily nothing materialized! And I bet you’re glad to be done with that English teacher! YUCK!!!</p>

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<p>Varsity sports don’t count for PE here and kids are required to take two years of it.</p>