@curiositycat333 I didn’t list Cal Poly for that reason, even for non engineering I think it would be a reach although as a CA resident, that would help a bit I imagine. I know Cal Poly has it’s own formula but I’ve not crunched those numbers. It also sounded like you wanted flexibility in case he changes his mind and you will not have that at Cal Poly. Changing from engineering into something else is easier to do than the reverse but with the upside down curriculum it can often add overall time, making it hard to graduate in 4 years. Even outside of engineering it is hard to get the classes you want, my SD14 is there and is taking summer session at their linked CC to try and keep to a 4 year plan.
There are definitely some solid options outside of the West Coast, it really depends on the geography he will consider. On the Cal schools, I am not sure why I thought Irvine was in the range. I’m sure you have looked at what is impacted and his index number and have a good idea of where he might have a chance that is of interest. We haven’t really looked closely as my son is avoiding any school that has sun! Or too much sun in his opinion, which pretty much eliminates all of California. Will your son have auto admit status (UC Merced?) with his current stats?
6 can be an ok size but it depends on the list. If it is all matches and reaches then probably too small. I am not sure where we will end up list wise, it’s currently hovering around 10 but I don’t expect him to apply to all 10. We are in the same boat with engineering as a maybe and wanting a school that has options, so our list has 5 state schools with a variety of engineering options and other STEM options in his areas of interest, 1 state school with strong STEM in the areas of interest but does not have the engineering field he wants and then 4 private schools that have a variety of STEM options. There are a couple of more that kind of come on and off the list but at the moment we are at 10, all safeties and matches, low reach.
Which schools are on his list already? As for the red flag question some call that a messy scattergram. I think the level of flag is a bit dependent on how great the disparity. You haven’t mentioned actual stats so it is hard to say.
@Momofmrb I believe that all schools recalculate GPA’s and what they put on the CDS is their own version. When you think about it, they would have to. You’ve got HS that go up to 5 and 6 point scales, some that weight, some that don’t, it’s a mess. To level the application field they would have to normalize somehow. A lot of debate about it and most schools won’t say what they do but given the simple fact that many HS do not weight (ours does not) and weighting varies, to have an “average” above a 4.0 a school would have to recalculate. This is where I like using Naviance as it least it shows results in comparison to our own schools GPA scale and that is helpful.
The UC and CSU system is different in that they publish their methodology so you can actually figure out what your UC gpa would be. They throw out freshman year entirely and then weight up to a certain amount of honors/IB and AP classes. You take that GPA and use a formula with your test scores to come up with an index number. That index number will let you know if you hit the minimum threshold to be considered or not. I’m not sure if the UC calculator and the CSU one spit out the same number or not and then Cal Poly has it’s own system.
@curiositycat333, Yep, I agree with all of y’all (I’m from the south originally – I’m allowed to say that!) in applying broadly. Some schools will see a kid who was lazy and didn’t work to his potential. Some will see a kid with the STEM talent they need who may have been bored and hadn’t yet found his direction in HS.
I second @eandesmom’s list. If you want to look further afield, some ideas: Rose-Hulman, Michigan Tech, Illinois Tech, Case Western Reserve, Clarkson University, Worcestor Polytechnic Institute, Rochester Institute of Technology, University of Rochester, University of Maine, University of Vermont. These are schools that were or are still on my D’s list (she’s going into EE). From target to reach, big and small, private and public.
You might want to head over to the engineering majors section of CC and ask about good schools for kids in your son’s position. I’ve found the folks there very knowledgeable and helpful.
@curiositycat333 A couple of others on our list (in addition to some crossover with @snoozn) are Syracuse and University of Ohio which obviously are geographic departures but have nice options for my S.
In general if the GPA meets the median range (or the AI above where it needs to be for your in state options), even on the lower side, at the state schools he should be ok. I do not think the state schools have the time, energy or resources to be looking for flags per-se unless they are very competitive schools. High acceptance rate schools are mostly a numbers game at least for the first filter. The smaller schools are far more likely to look at the variance more closely and the high test scores may help with merit but also hurt a little with the overall package. EC’s and Essays can likely help in those areas, smaller application pools and well endowed schools have greater resources to spend a bit more time on the application reviews than the huge state schools. At least I suspect that is the case.
@eandesmom Took S17 to see Cal Poly last year. It was a good visit as is a) made him more aware of how his university requirements b) helped clarify what he would like. I was surprised when he told me he still wants to apply there. It’s defiantly a reach & I have no idea what major he intends I don’t think it’s a great fit precisely because he doesn’t really know what he wants.
As for UC’s UC Santa Cruz is on the list, probably UC Santa Barbara and I can maybe get him to put UC Merced as a safety. He will also apply to a few Cal State schools.
The school I like best so far for him is Oregon State, and he also liked University of Oregon. I think these are both good matches. Looking at Naviance, just GPA/SAT range he should be able to get into both these schools.
@Momofmrb Depends on what GPA? Weighted for California schools (no freshman grades) is 3.45, unweighted 9-12 3.1. Most schools out of state will look at his weighted 3.2. He really bombed the second semester of freshman year.
@curiositycat333 actually, most out of state schools are likely to look at his unweighted as well. They will look at trends though, that is a big factor so if sophomore year and up went well they will take note. I know Oregon bases on unweighted but they will look at rigor.
Cal Poly would make me very nervous, not that it isn’t a great school as it is outstanding but if you don’t know what you want, it’s not the right place for most kids since you have to declare at application which I am sure you already know. It made us extremely nervous although it has worked out and the major picked has “stuck”. We haven’t visited Oregon State yet but I expect it to be a top 3 choice for my S. Of course I expected him to like CSU and he did not so we really won’t know for sure until we visit which will be in the fall. U of O doesn’t have quite the options and is significantly more expensive but admissions wise I’d put them at the exact same spot and both fit the more rural environment he wants for sure. Santa Cruz is a good match but SB would be a reach I would think on the GPA side.
Your bigger challenge may be dealing with the impacted engineering programs in many of the UC and Cal State schools. He can go in undeclared but it may be hard/impossible to move over. I’d look into that by each school to know what the real flexibility may be if you haven’t already. What type of engineering is he considering as well as other areas of interest?
And…for those that have followed along the Spanish 3 drama train…it’s come up to a B!!! If we can get the stupid not really missing english assignment entered I can breathe for the rest of the week.
@eandesmom Good to hear. That a relief. My S17 managed to pull grades up at the last minute in two of his classes. He does very well on standardized tests, so finals usually help his grade. S17 ended up with a C in Spanish 3 and will not be continuing on.
@endesmom I think S17 still doesn’t really know what he wants. After touring Oregon State he said he was interested in mechanical engineering. He likes building things. But that’s one of the reasons I like OSU… he doesn’t need to know ahead of time. Of course he would have to do well when he gets into school to get into the program as a junior. He’s very good at math, but had a teacher freshman year that killed his love for the subject. (GRRRR…) His grades have improved, freshman grades that are mostly C’s were all in honors classes.
@curiositycat333 that is one of the things I like about OSU as well, I just hope he likes it, and that they offer enough merit to have it make sense. On the flip side though I do think he might thrive more at an LAC, I am just not sure they will meet the course load need as well. I will say the one we’ve visited so far had a solid STEM vibe, while still offering the policy items of interest. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
It is such a bummer when a teacher kills a subject for the kid, my Algebra 1 teacher was like that in 8th grade and I never recovered. I feel your pain. We only have a handful of C’s, one bad semester of 9th grade honors science, one bad semester of AP World but Spanish 2 was bad all around! Which meant first semester of sophomore year was ugly. Finally went in for testing and started ADHD meds spring of sophomore year and things have improved so the trending is good.
Until recently Spanish 3 had been an improvement, he will not be continuing on either. Quite the opposite though, S often pulls up the grades with the classwork and that is definitely the case with Spanish. Some of his classes are pretty set now on the grades but a few are down to the wire with tests this week. I don’t expect anything this week to really drop grades but the (not really) missing assignment) in AP Language is killing me. It’s worth a ton of points and dropped him from an A- to a C-! Assuming that is fixed we should finally have a full year entirely free of C’s! I had really hoped he could maintain his first semester GPA but that seems unlikely at the moment. It will likely end up a relatively livable drop considering the difficulty of the course load and will have to be good enough.
@eandesmom I really liked OSU and thought it was a very good fit for him. There are other things about it that make it as close to what he wants as I can find. I’m trying not to talk it up too much it because S17 has hit that stage, where Mom is never right. I’m trying to get him to look at Colorado schools, if I could take him on a trip there it might help. But there is no time as he already has a lot of plans and won’t be home for most of the summer. And he will be a busy kid come fall. He is involved in marching band and that take a lot of his time come fall.
@curiositycat333 the visiting is hard. Would he apply to some and then visit if he got in? I think both CU and CSU are on the common app. You could make it a long weekend on an inservice weekend. I can tell you that they are both incredibly easy from Denver and it is possible to do both in one day although it is a LONG day and if already admitted perhaps not the best set up for tours. We flew into Denver in the evening, hit Boulder for a morning tour, CSU for an afternoon one. Spent the night in Fort Collins and then drove to U of Wyoming for a full day tour and then back to Denver. If Boulder was affordable it would probably still be on the list. Wyoming is on but it’s a distant third at the moment.
Other than hitting friday night Denver traffic which was horrid, it was a very doable, if long, 2 days.
Mom is never right. My son has a school on his list I’ve not mentioned much here as I want it off! The more I mention it, the more he will want to go there and really he is just in love with the concept of the setting the school is in, than anything at all program related or even town related.
Oddly enough on paper, University of Ohio seems equal to OSU in terms of what it could offer S (maybe better for program but worse for location) but we will see. The plan for that one is to apply and then maybe visit depending on the $$ offer. For us, OSU (assuming he likes it) will likely come down to $$. I may need to decide if what they offer is worth paying more for, or not.
MB is a ton of time, we will have those fall constraints as well, plus fall drama and a tough course load. I need to look at the fall schedule with all of those things and find a week we can actually go to Oregon. It is a bit of a bummer as originally there seemed to be so many schools in OR that were a fit and we are down to…one. Long drive for one school!
@eandesmom It did help to see some schools. I don’t feel you need to visit everyone before you apply. But so far the best way to get him interested in applying has been to visit. None of his schools need common app so Colorado schools would be yet another application. He will see at least one more California school this summer as it’s not very far outside his travels and grandma has offered to take him. And I’m hoping that his travels this summer he will talk with other adults/kids he is with about other possibilities. S17 does have one safety than I am reluctant about and I have just been downplaying it and just honestly making other suggestions. I do think he can get in but don’t see why he’s interested except for location. It doesn’t really have the programs he wants, it’s very difficult to travel to, and well it’s got a bit reputation.
@curiositycat333 My S is far more engaged with the schools we have visited. It was very very helpful. We looked hard at an east coast trip over the summer and elected not to. It will be interesting to see what stays on the list for applications given that. I think it was the right call, the costs were crazy and while all good, solid schools, none had anything SO compelling about them that we had to go visit. Still, it could hurt their chances.
Sigh. I wonder if the safety you want to go away is the same one I want to go away. It is the only CA school on his list.
Well, grades are (mostly) in – looks like D17 has held her GPA pretty steady–precalc was definitely the low point, but didn’t do too much damage. While I was hoping against hope that she might nudge it upwards, at this point, not going down is a victory. Still waiting on the anatomy & physiology grade, and the portal shows a couple of missing grades for that subject that D has assured me she has brought to the attention of the teacher–we’ll see.It will probably be too much to hope that she’ll end up with a higher grade than what is showing right now, but even if it stays where it is there shouldn’t be too much GPA movement. Hope it’s enough to keep her in the top 10% of her class (she’s really benefiting from a relatively laid back class–her sister (D19), with about the same GPA (-0.03), is barely within the top 20% of her class. I was pleased that D17 completed her brag sheet and turned it into the counselor last week, without too much nagging on my part.
I’m going to give her the rest of the week to chill before I start in on her about the Common App/essay. I don’t think it’s going to be a pleasant summer, but I think she will thank me once school starts up again in the fall and she’s on top of her game (I know, she won’t thank me…). Planning a trip to the DC area for visits sometime in July/August (American, Goucher, Loyola U MD).
Naviance isn’t showing SAT scores yet, but I’m wondering how much use they will be anyway, what with the inflation/concordance issues with the old test–doesn’t seem that historical data will be relevant. I did notice that they’ve opened up the part where you can list the schools you are applying to. D definitely needs to start honing the list. Wish more of our schools had more data points (seems that most kids from D’s high school stay pretty local).
@klinska not going down is definitely a victory! I think 4 out of the 7 grades are basically in. While wind ensemble and jazz are not updated, they shouldn’t change when they are. Still waiting on AP Lang, Spanish 3 and US History. He is retaking a Physics test today which may bring the grade up but likely not (worth a shot though). USH has a final tomorrow which may bring the grade up, likely not down. He says Spanish is going up a half a point due to his final being “published” but I’m not seeing that online so we will see. The big issue is AP world and the missing assignment getting credited. He has been assured she has it and he will but I will feel so much better when it is in.
No matter the result, it is a drop from 1st semester which is a bummer. I am hoping the worst case scenario is a UW 3.5, best a 3.6 but until that English grade adjusts I am biting my nails!
He met on the essay yesterday, will be using either prompt 3 or 4 and has his overall topic so that was progress. Made some headway on the brag sheet items but there is a lot of work to be done still. I will look forward to your trip report on your summer visits, Goucher was on our list for a bit. I know what you mean about lack of data points, 2 of S’s schools have never had anyone apply from our school and 4 more have had only 2-5 over the past 3 years combined. That means I only have decent data on 4 out of 10 schools. UGH.
We are looking at ACT data, which given that not all the kids in naviance used, versus the old SAT has its own challenges as well.
@curiositycat333 , at the right type of school, a high test score will only help.
My D16 was in this group’s GPA range, but had a high test score. She ended up getting substantial merit scholarships at three smaller state schools (two were OOS.) It’s my understanding, based on what I read here, and talking to other parents of D’s peers, that she would have received significant merit at some small LACs in the area, as well.
Obviously, at the more “elite” schools, lopsided stats might be a red flag. But at less selective schools, they may like your son’s test scores!
I maintain that the “regional” or “directional” state universities love kids with high test scores even if the GPA is lower. That was our experience. I think these schools lose a lot of students to the flagships or private schools and sometimes have a hard time attracting the ones with higher test scores. A student with a good GPA AND as good test score will do very well, merit-wise, at the smaller state schools.
Getting closer, the English grade was fixed, now just waiting on one final test in English and then the history final tomorrow. The gpa has bumped up to the level we needed it to though and should stay there barring a history fiasco which is hard to imagine.
@BeeDAre that is interesting. While my S17 isn’t a high test score kid, I expect S19 to be. The regional and directional on his list seem to rank GPA and test scores together and seems a substantial jump for merit increases (or they are lower, say 1K for 1-2 point ACT bumps), if any is offered at all. What states were the ones you are mentioning in?
@eandesmom Yup… sounds like the last week of school for my DS. Love those teachers who don’t update a whole pile of work till the last minute and make us all sweat.
Just realized I’ve been confused about what the S17 acronym meant. I’ve only been posting on this CC for a little bit, and I was confused when you were talking about S19. I was parsing it as age (like a different board I follow), instead of year of graduates. But coincidentally it works either way…
@curiositycat333 I had that same issue when I first started posting here. It does work for S17…as of 2 weeks ago but not so much for S19! I was very very confused at first.
Grades have been good updates today, AP English back to the A- with only one more item to be logged , AP Physics also bumped up to an A- due to a test S retook today. That was a happy surprise. Now I pray for good USH final results tomorrow and that last English item…
I am starting to think we need to relook at Cal State and UC schools…his Cal GPA is so much better than the one that includes 9th grade! Too bad most of them have sun.
@eandesmom, there’s always Chico and Humboldt! Even though I’ve been on the east coast for over 30 years, I’m originally from California, a proud alumna of UCSB (not recommended if trying to avoid the sun). You should be very proud of your S17–those are some really solid grades! Are you sure you belong in this thread?? After all is said in done, we ended up where I thought we would be GPA-wise (3.3 UW, 3.7 W).
@BeeDAre, where are you located? I’m not too excited about our regional/directional options here in MA/New England–wondering if it’s worth exploring in other geographies.
D17 has taken Arizona State off the list after hearing about the heat wave this week!
