Edit: Just remembered one of D’s classmates is going to Yale. So I was wrong when I said she’s the only one going to a private OOS.
I have to say that I’m very thankful I found this group within CC, and only wish I’d been around a couple of years ago for the 2015 version of this group for S15’s college search journey–he’s even more in this group range than S17 is.
And truth be told, I was initially afraid people in this group would think S17 & I didn’t “belong” here because he’s basically a 95 average, top 10% of his class kid. But his test scores aren’t amazing, and he wasn’t ever interested in Ivy’s or more elite schools, so I felt more at home here. And then S was inducted into the Struggling Sons of Calculus Club and I knew I belonged. 
Thank you all for keeping me around!
Both this group and the standard parents of 2017 kids group are more supportive than most on CC, but this group seems more down to earth to me–the kids are so varied in their interests and talents, and we celebrate that, but we’re also not afraid to talk about our kids’ struggles. To me, that makes these kids seem more whole and real. And it also makes their achievements somehow more rewarding.
@eandesmom I can think of one state where OOS is less than your (or almost any) state’s instate college COA–my home state (think of a large, rectangular state in the upper Midwest with low population)! My family back there is amazed at how much we pay for a SUNY–and I thought SUNYs were a good deal! OOS COA out there is <$20k (I think excluding travel, but still…) I have no idea how I ever talked my parents into going OOS myself for college… That doesn’t mean it would be the right fit for my or many other kids, although there are great little schools and programs.
@tacocat333 Yes, S17 is still in the struggling sons club–he had a C- in calc for last quarter which brings his overall calc grade down to a solid C. I think (hope!) he can maintain that, since he’d pretty much have to fail (badly) in the last quarter to drop below a C-. Who knows if he has any chance for the 3 on the AP exam–I have my doubts! However, he knows that if he gets the 3, he likely won’t have to take a math class in college, so maybe that will motivate some study and/or practice in these last few weeks before the exam.
I think Wyoming would have, and probably the South Dakota schools in WUE. WUE students at Wyoming pay about $7000 (1.5 x instate, which is about $4300?) in tuition and $9000 in room and board. If not selected for WUE, there are Rocky Mtn scholars, which range from about $5000 (off the OOS tuition of ~$16k) to 1.5x instate tuition, and for an ACT of 25 and a 3.5 gpa, you are close to the top end of Rocky Mtn Scholars. South Dakota is even more generous. NM too. Utah has scholarship programs, including becoming an instate student for tuition after just one year. Many would have been close to your instate option, although I think WWU is a bargain and very beautiful.
My daughters were much more limited in budget than most on CC, and neither attends an instate public.
Wyoming at S17’s stats, would have been about the same as WWU, a bit more once you add on travel
My point is that it wasn’t less lol. And the only one he ever considered that came truly close.
A truly fabulous deal and great school, just not right for S17.
Hey everyone - great discussion!
@eandesmom - loved your list of typical CC advice, (and especially loved you adding a point 6 along with point 8 … the beauty of being mildly dyslexic myself is that I automatically read the “right” word or number based on context, just missing typos completely - very good and forgiving when reading other people’s work, but not so good for catching my own mistakes!
The COA for the one in-State option for us (George Mason) was also about $23k in total COA…so there’s no way CoyoteSon was getting enough merit to match that bargain, even though he wound up with a 3.8 and a 31 ACT (is 32 really a magic number that would have bumped him up to even bigger MAC? I’ll never know. In any case, his COA ranges from full pay at $65K, thru very nice merit awards that bring the COA to $57K, $45K, $37K, and three schools all right under $29K. I honestly think that a higher ACT might only have brought the more expensive schools that offered merit closer to $40K per year.
I also think advice on the other parts of CC is somewhat divided on “pick the cheapest option” versus “pick the best fit” – and I am so pleased that all the kindred spirits here have supported each other as we chase “fit” over both prestige and cost as the deciding factor.
@klinska - can’t wait to hear about your DC’s decision. Just wanted to agree with @Hankster1361 that the final two schools under consideration in the CoyoteDen include full pay/no merit Carleton at $65K vs best bargain - great merit, plus dangling the $2K summer learning experience at Beloit at just under $29K.
So here’s the other divided advice that will apply to CoyoteSon – is it better to be the big fish in the smaller pond, or will he be better off being challenged to keep up with lots of fish the same size or bigger? He’s sitting in on two classes tomorrow, one where professor said “sure” with not even a syllabus, but the other where professor provided the syllabus and pdf’s of two 30-page chapters, plus a link to an entire book where students are to read their own selections from the biography plus a “short” 6-page second biography - which is the reading for tomorrow’s class (embedded in a syllabus that has 10-20 more readings for each class for"context" for the small groups of students that have to lead discussion for that individual class. My son is sitting here in hotel room finishing up the big readings (“skimming is for sissies”) - because this is a history class and of high interest. At any other school where he was given reading for the class, it’s been one 20-30 page chapter at most. Thank goodness CoyoteSon will wind up making the decision - we’ll be here at Carleton for both an “ordinary day” and then the accepted students hooplah with a welcome dinner, overnight visit, and student panels/academic fair the next day. I am anticipating that the student “vibe” for science/nerdy/quirky will be an essential tie, and therefore I forsee a week of indecision as CoyoteSon will have to dig deeper into understanding the differences between the requirements at each school.
@morningside95 - yes, just got here to Northfield with CoyoteSon, and checked into the lovely local hotel, Archer House. Another friendly CCer PM-ed me to suggest meeting in person because the parents will be baking cookies at the “Cookie House”, so at least we’ll get some yummy treats tomorrow!
@tacocat333 - love your new avatar. Also love that UMW still had a pillowcase and * threw in a banner *and sent it in the mail. Who doesn’t love getting a package in the mail? Happy for TacoSon!
No offense intended @Hankster1361 and @CoyoteMom (or anyone else)–I’m not sure I expressed myself the way I meant to. It’s just the prevailing sentiment that if you’re not getting Big MAC somewhere you’re doing it wrong, but apparently that doesn’t apply to the elites, that chaps my hide. For those of us for whom the elites are not in play, it seems there is some judgment about going full pay, and that bugs me and is why I’m happier over here on this thread. For those of you who can and are willing to go full pay, my hat is off to you. I feel like I’ve been doing a great job of saving over the years, yet I just can’t swing it without risking retirement or my home.
@MSU88CHEng Aww, I hope son feels better soon!
@eandesmom Just read your post #3805 Very well said. I get frustrated with those same ideas - they are not everyone’s reality. In addition, I understood you weren’t bashing a particular school and just making a point. Also, like you and @smakl70, the best fit for my kid was not our cheapest option. I had to go with “fit” and I don’t regret it. And I don’t mind if someone has a different thought process, what’s right for each family can be totally different!
@NolaCAR said: “I am on both threads but definitely feel this thread is a better fit for me and D. We honestly never wanted an Ivy for D, and she didn’t want one for herself. Our family likes to travel in a slower lane.” I say: My thoughts exactly!!! (Caveat: I do like my friends over on the main thread too, some nice folks - just with a different set of issues.) I will say, I wish I knew that standardized test scores meant more merit $$ - I didn’t find that out until the fall.
@4kids4us Nice to meet you and your kids
@CoyoteMom good luck on your son’s decision! I’ve often thought about the big fish little fish thing but ultimately I think it’s just up to how your son feels and sounds like he’s well on his way to figuring it out!
Well, I’m not part of the “Struggling Calculus Sons” group BUT I do have a struggling “AP Physics C” daughter and during this whole week on her spring break she’s found time to study for the AP exam but feels so discouraged. She took a practice test and did various practice problems, but is finding all her answers are wrong. I really wish she would have or still would just take me up on my offer to get her a tutor.
Quite frankly, it doesn’t really matter how she does on this exam, so I’m not stressed over that. BUT, the stress is larger, Physics is her dream (at the moment) and I don’t want her to give up on it due to one class where she has a terrible teacher and perhaps has not put in the time she needed to for this class. She feels like she can’t keep up and a few other kids “get it” etc so maybe she’s not that smart after all. I reminded her that she has not studied as much as she should have throughout the year and her refusal to get extra help, IMO, is more the problem here. It’s odd, because usually she doesn’t have a problem asking for extra help.
I also reminded her whatever she gets on the AP exam really doesn’t matter, but that I’m glad to see she’s studying for it anyway because she needs to get a decent grade on the final to keep a C for year end. Q1 and Q2, she got a C, Q3 so far, she’s getting an 80 (her best so far - but a high C)
I will also say that because of her anxiety issues, I let her know that I’m proud at how she’s handling the discouragement. In the past, this might have put her in ‘total shut down’ mode and she might have disappeared to her bedroom to cry. This time, she shared her feelings of frustration and then binge watched some Netflix 
Ok, that’s my vent of the day!
I want a pillowcase! S17 would LOVE that. Big state schools though aren’t big on free stuff. He did get a tote bag and a pin at the admitted students info day and I expect, outside of a T shirt at orientation, that’s the end of the free stuff.
This kills me!
@tacocat333 I swear you had two hysterical quotes yesterday but I can’t find the other one.
Personally, I could care less. Pick the school that fits your budget and fits your kid. There is no one right answer for anyone. I understand and respect peoples opinions regarding what it is “worth” in their opinion, but it is just that.
What I don’t care for is when folks judge how valuable a full pay option is. There are some, vocal folks, that will weigh in that very few schools are worth full pay and while I can appreciate that viewpoint it is a subjective opinion and it can get uncomfortable if one feels judged for it. And full pay varies, is full pay list price or is full pay your EFC or WHO CARES. I mean make smart choices for you but don’t judge others.
LOL!
Unless of course it is clearly folks in way over their head on the financials, and there are plenty, and advice is needed and wanted. My issue is with the unsolicited judgemental versions.
I do think the higher scores bring in more $$, there is just no getting around it. We didn’t end up with a single full pay option, but our net COA’s ranged from $21K, jumped to one at 36k and the rest all at 40-45K. Two in the 40’s had a deflated year one as FA would go away year 2 (and in theory come back years 3&4 but no guarantees in life!. In all by 2 cases though, in the schools mind, they fully met our need with subsidized loan offers. Going into it I really thought we would see a few more in that 36 range, which was the target, but it is what it is and we can make it work. We did know that our location choices limited the offers. That was a choice. Yes, we could have gone for more midwest, low pop state schools, etc that were price tag based. Fit based did cost more there is no doubt.
It was eye opening for me. I’ve been a bit of a complainer (not loud mind you) regarding SS11’s college costs, less so for SD14, thinking I could do better. Not that they were the wrong schools, just that maybe their mom didn’t look hard enough for $$, esp for SS11 (who would solidly fit in this thread and at the lower end). At the end of the day, I’ll be paying almost exactly the same amount as we did for their schools (if I move SS11’s into today’s offers at his school but use S17’s stats). A bit less than S11’s in today’s dollars and a bit more than SD14’s so…average equals all kids are equal, though that really was not the intention! And annoyingly enough, that average is right about at our EFC, or at if you add a hair of subsidized loan.
Which means the reality is, like @NolaCAR we figured out how to pay our EFC (the 2 kid version mind you, not the 1!). It just wasn’t a fun exercise. But it is (cough) doable, with some kid skin in the game. SS11 had a bit of skin in and SD14’s costs a tad less…though I WISH she had some skin in the game but…not my call.
I do tend to side with the camp that advises against risking retirement or your home. I can’t say I agree with zero debt or loans, I do think a bit is manageable but everyone’s tolerance is different.
@MSU88CHEng Yeah…I can’t see S17 in the Dakota’s. He’d drop out of school and camp out at the pipeline, get arrested…You know. Truthfully that is part of what killed Wyoming. Really great school. SUPER fossil fuel focused (and I am sure they are quite happy with recent developments). So not his tribe though, he couldn’t get past it.
@CoyoteMom the fish question is a tough one. My S would never be a big fish but we greatly feared him getting lost in a large(r) pool. We opted for the keeping up with other fish in a smaller overall pool as the best fit. Each kid is different though and competition to keep up can be a huge success factor for some, and crush others. Enjoy Carleton!
@curiositycat333 did you see the UCSC transcript drama from 2016 that someone posted about on the main thread? I know your S wants to do everything on his own but that sounds like a nightmare and you might to ride herd on your S to ensure no glitches.
@Fishnlines29
"I will also say that because of her anxiety issues, I let her know that I’m proud at how she’s handling the discouragement. In the past, this might have put her in ‘total shut down’ mode and she might have disappeared to her bedroom to cry. This time, she shared her feelings of frustration and then binge watched some Netflix "
This is such a girl thing I understand anxiety and panic attacks and shutdown mode!
@eandesmom and @tacocat333 - Hate to admit it, but Alabama has become very popular for kids from our HS who want to head south, to a big OOS with warmer weather, merit aid, and a lot school spirit. So there will be some upper Midwest kids wandering around with the East and West coaster kids! It’s probably a good thing for 'Bama to diversify. (I generally am not on a lot of other CC threads, and was not aware of that going to Alabama had become at “thing.” Funny! The head coordinator of our Sr Party’s son will be going there, so I’ll have to check it out and tell her. I’m sure she’ll laugh!
@MSU88CHEng - For cheap OOS tuition in a rectangular state in the Midwest - South Dakota? My DH grew up there and got a very good Chemical Engineering/Comp Sci (circa 1985) education from South Dakota School of Mines.
@4kids4us - Congrats on finishing up with D17, and good luck with the rest of your brood. You will have more experience than any of us by the time your D23 heads off to school! D17 is headed to Univ San Diego, right? Hope she has a wonderful time there. My friend’s D never saw herself joining a sorority, (hardly ever wore a dress before her Sr Prom!) but found a great group of young women, and really enjoyed it. She was on several BB and volleyball teams, growing up, and I think she liked being part of a group of women. (She also went to an all girls Catholic HS). Since she didn’t play sports in college, the sorority sort of filled that group experience in her life.
@CoyoteMom - Hope you and CoyoteSon enjoy your visit to lovely Northfield, MN, and we’ll be interested in your, and his, thoughts, after the visit. Expect you’ll have a lot to chew on. Beloit is a wonderful school too! Sorry the weather is gray and dreary, today. Friday should be much better. Spring has just started to “sprung” around here. If you have time, and are interested, drive the 2 miles over to St. Olaf and ck out S17s future home “On The Hill,” as they call it.
Ok I am going to be a big old sap right now and just say
I really love you guys on this thread.
So incredibly heartwarming, every day.
Thank you.
All of you.
In struggling kid news…
Q3 did not exactly knock it out of the park with a 3.2, which included a C+ in APES. Part of it was due to work that could not be made up after the college visit and part of it was due to the kid not getting a few things in that COULD have been made up. Aka not being on top of things in a timely fashion. Super annoyed with yoga though, the kid can’t make up “walks” that were missed and really…a B in walking/yoga? Grrr.
Honestly, it’s 2nd semester senior year and if he was going to WWU I wouldn’t care. But since UVM has indicated they will review his award if there’s new noteworthy news…and if he can pull off a certain gpa it will bump is overall to a 3.5 (which may be a magic number on the UVM side)…I made the kid a “ways to hit goal” chart.
There are at least 6 different grade combinations that will get him there. All of which are actually possible and not pipe dreams. I made him a pretty sheet for reference. We shall see!
@Fishnlines29 I’m so glad you are encouraging her to keep her dream besides struggles now. My H struggled with math in HS, retook math in college, changed schools to one that had less of a party atmosphere, got himself a tutor. He did all that because he knew he needed the math for his dream, which was to be an engineer.
3 degrees and a very successful career later I would say his perseverance paid off. Encouragement is everything and one test does not define you.
Breaking news.
I am relieved to report that S17 did NOT get the CTCL scholarship.
:))
Seriously, if he’d have gotten it, I’d have had to discuss it with him, revisit the 1 year grant offer from Ursinus and make sure it didn’t make him change his mind. Never thought I’d be celebrating my child NOT receiving something but really, it makes live easier all around. I hope someone we “know” did get it though.
We’re still in Decision Mode, ack. I made a spreadsheet comparing Buffalo and Binghamton and pushed it under DS’s door this morning and I sure hope it helps. Looking at money alone, he could commute to one of them and go free, preserving our college savings for grad school, or he could go to the other and clean out the 529 but still be debt free.
The wild card still is the track team, though; he has a place at one but the other is asking for a 1:54 800m time. Should be doable (based on his indoor times) once he’s on taper and racing against faster kids than those in our section, but that won’t happen before May 1. The high school coach chose not to race this weekend and next weekend is Penn Relays when he’ll only be doing the 4x800. Maybe the college coach would look at a split time instead??? Ack.
On the different forums here: My older two were very focused students and so I spent my time in the regular thread (both ended up at Cornell). But boy oh boy is it less stressful here. Thank you all for making this such a nice place to hang out .
And as to the different “levels” of college: DS’15 and DD’14 are both at Cornell, where DS thriving in every way but DD is struggling badly with anxiety and depression. I had seen some signs of anxiety in her during high school, and now I wish that I had paid more attention to that and maybe encouraged her to go to a less intense college. I think she’ll be able to finish this semester, but I don’t know if she should go back without taking a leave first 
. The “marquee” school is bad place for a kid if it grinds them down.
I’m just popping in for a second … I hope to comment more later.
Is everyone having their kids study for the AP exams outside of the class using study books? My DD is not and now I think maybe she should. Or do you think it’s too late?
Thanks, @eandesmom! I really appreciate being part of this group. Hopefully we all stay in touch. There is still a lot ahead!
I was lucky enough to gather together a group of parents I met from the 2020 Accepted Grinnell CC thread, who kids decided to enroll, and we met up at move-in and family weekend. It’s been so helpful, through this first year, and we hope to meet up, again, at move-in time in August. We didn’t go through the application process together, but it’s been wonderful to meet a group of parents going through the college experience together. One of their sons and my S16 actually became friends, without our realizing it until Christmas break!
At least your son applied for an outside scholarship! I called CTCL and they said they usually only give out 2 per scholarships each year, so S did not apply. He’s hoping for a chance at a local scholarships, which will only be good for 1 year but they are usually $1-$2,000, and he applied thru our HS. So who knows? We have a generous community, with lots of memorial scholarships, so we will see if he is awarded any of them. No real work involved, though, just 1 short application.
@Fishnlines29 - If it’s any consolation - Our S16 said that AP Physics was the hardest class he took in all of HS, including 10 AP classes. As he was considering it as a possible major, S enrolled in Physics, first semester, at this college, and thought it was actually EASIER than his AP class!
@mdcmom - So sorry to hear about your DD14. Certainly hope she and your family find the right solution for her. Boy, with an D14, S15 & S17, your family certainly has been busy. We will keep your DD in our thoughts.
DH and I were concerned about Grinnell for S16, but he seems to be finding balance, this first year. S17 is the one with more anxiety issues, and were just talking last night about finding out if St Olaf has counseling available, or if he should come back up to Minneapolis (as it’s only 45 mins away) once a month or so, for. He’s been getting talk therapy for the past 2 years and he said it helps alleviate his anxiety, without meds, so we’re lucky. With DH’s job change we found out, that his current therapist is not covered by our new health insurance, and we can’t afford $175/treatment, out of pocket. With all the bills from his car accident, we didn’t see the EOB from the insurance co. until late in the year, so we had to pay about $1000 OoP. So, currently we are in transition, with S17 talking to a therapist who is available thru our HS, and looking for a new one, covered by our insurance.
Oh, the damn CTCL scholarship. I read about it last year and D17 ended up applying to 5 CTCL schools [out of a total of 12 that she applied to]. Of COURSE she would apply for that scholarship. But somehow I ended up forgetting to put it on the calendar and just spaced until it was too late [and my D is not the type to keep track of that stuff if she had even known about it, which I don’t think she did]. And of course she is going to Goucher which is a CTCL school. Oh well, she would have been unlikely to get it, but I’m frustrated with myself for spacing out. Our town also has a bunch of small scholarships you can apply for with one application so she did that, and I know they try to spread them out among a lot of students, but am not optimistic of her getting anything–she has 400 kids in her class and I’m sure they all apply bc it’s so easy.
I am a bit concerned about the therapy thing for my D. The Youth Services dept in town has several licensed social workers who provide therapy to kids in town for no charge, and my D has been seeing one of them for a couple of years now and has really found it helpful. I know there will be therapists at school but doubt she can see one long-term. Hoping the adjustment goes well. She has some depression and anxiety but nothing super serious.
Haven’t been posting as the decision has been made for a while and nothing new to report. Love keeping up with all of you, though! @klinska still waiting! 
@klinska and @eandesmom I know what you mean by “full pay only for prestige” but in my mind that’s relative. If we end up being full pay at a school that gives money to kids with better stats, who cares? You work with the kid and the budget you’ve got and no one should judge. I’m not on the other boards much and now I’m glad to have missed all this!
We too are still in Decision Mode and S has not narrowed the field that much. Maybe in the back of his mind but not to his parents. I suspect he will take it to the end of the month. We are in Ohio now, at Denison this morning and he is doing an overnight at Kenyon. They have a protest going on (also it’s 420, did the admissions office think about that?) so it could get interesting. I love Kenyon.
I think I forgot to report back after our recent PNW trip. No decision even between the three schools (aargh) but short story is this: 1) Puget super friendly and comfortable, they may have been putting on a bit of a show for Decision Puget Sound but he really enjoyed the program and the class he attended and it might be the one of the three that he can see himself most easily fitting in and doing fine, 2) didn’t really learn much about Lewis & Clark, it was a very crowded event, one thing he did notice was at least 75% of the attendees were from California, 3) he went into Reed with a huge chip on his shoulder, basically saying, I’ve got a lot of red flags here, what is real and what isn’t, I expected it to fall of the list, but it didn’t. He felt like the host wasn’t trying to sugarcoat anything about the school, they talked about the good and the bad, and had a staying-up-late-talking-about-ideas experience. He is still nervous about workload and stress culture but thinks there might be some mitigating good things that honalong with it.
Hanging in there and following along, it’s so fun to see where everyone is ending up and I am so proud of all our kids!
Well, we have the decision! Drum roll please…it’s Denison!
Have to admit this is not the place I thought she’d end up. Even after the local info session last October when she walked away super impressed. I’m delighted she has opted for a LAC–it’s small (but not as small as they go), and I think she will definitely benefit from the extra attention–I just didn’t think this was what she wanted for herself. I think maybe the two back-to-back accepted students visits at Denison and UMass showed her she really didn’t want that big school experience after all.
I’m so happy that she’s found her place. Those of you who have said your kids just seem lighter after the decision weren’t kidding. She’s practically floating.
For those of you still in the home stretch–hugs! It will all be over in a week at the latest!
Wow. So he’s still juggling 5?
UPS, L&C, Reed, Denison and Kenyon?
Lovely lovely choices! Very different in some cases.
On the full pay thing you didn’t miss anything specific at all we were just making some general statements.
I’ve a major soft spot for UPS, it may well end up on S19’s list. If they had a better environmental program (and offered a tad more money lol) it might have been a real contender.
Is Kenyon the parent pick?
@kt1969 S was accepted to 4 CTCL schools. I suspect the scholarships went to amazing stats kids and he never had a chance but it didn’t hurt to try. The kids they picked last year were high achievers and/or off the chart ECs if I recall. I’m sure there were a lot of applicants. It will be interesting to see if they release any of the info.
Can your D continue therapy by phone or Skype? Might be worth looking into.