@eandesmom, D was really concerned about AP Eng Lang because her teacher spent virtually no time prepping the class for the test. Her APUSH teacher, however, held after-school sessions to go over FRQs and such, which D attended religiously. Don’t know how much actual class time he spent on prep, though. Apparently is known for his high percentage of students achieving 5s over the years, too. Oh well. There’s a lesson in here somewhere for me about not getting overly anxious about all of these test results, I just need to figure out what it is (I’ve got a couple of weeks until the SAT scores come out to find my zen).
@eandesmom Which Physics class is this? S17 is supposed to take Physics in the fall.
All AP classes aren’t taught at the same rigor. Not even all teachers at our school teach classes at the same level. And last minute test prep can only help so much. It’s a common gripe from parents that DS’s school has grade deflation & kids who might get A’s at another school get B’s impacting their admissions to university. (It’s not just me, I hear this from other parents) I thought the AP test (and college testing) were supposed to be one way to level this playing field.
My understanding is most of the schools DS is looking at (state schools) don’t really look at AP grades for admissions. Looked it up this morning and UC does have a place to record your AP scores on the application. But supposedly the AP grades aren’t looked at. And they don’t care about any “failing” grades.
Some schools have self report on applications for the AP scores but you don’t send scores until matriculation.
My understanding is that schools care far more about the fact an AP class was taken and what that transcript grade is then whether or not a child took the AP test itself and what score they received.
SD14 took 3 AP classes but didn’t sit for a single test and was plenty competitive without them. They are very nice for the college credit at schools that give credit but that’s about it.
AP tests are not designed to level the playing field from an admissions standpoint, they are designed to give college credit to High Schoolers who show proficiency in those subjects. We find in general, that our AP classes may not stick to the curricula as closely to the test as would be ideal for test prep, it isn’t so much about last minute cramming (and agree on that point) but rather the class curricula and the test syncing up. The test seems like almost an afterthought for some. Looking at our AP Lit curricula for next year…the actual AP prep part of it is mentioned very much as an afterthought. Our school/teachers do not seem to care so much about whether kids score well on the test. I think the district cares more about reporting how many actually tested, then necessarily how they did. They don’t list any of it on the profile sheet, just how many offered lol Which doesn’t mean that the classes aren’t rigorous and that it varies tremendously by teacher and subject.
D got a 3 in AP Chem. I think this would let her skip Chem 1 at a number of her schools, but she says she doesn’t want to. She felt like it was a very hard class and running right up against her limits, so she doesn’t think she fully got everything (even though she got a B!) Of course once she sees those sample class schedules she may decide to cut out whatever she can.
@eandesmom, re: EA and late tests – my plan was to go ahead and send the scores she has. Then if the next set is better, send them in asap in hopes they can be considered. What I really ought to do is check whether the EA schools super-score and whether they require all tests. Another item on the do-do list.
D took writing with the June ACT and says emphatically she will not do any more standardized tests with writing. That’s fine with me and many of her schools don’t require it anyway.
Your S’s sound system super-powers remind of the book I’m reading now, All the Light We Cannot See – one of the main characters is a German orphan boy who finds that he is a genius with radios.
@curiositycat333, yes, I think you’re right that most schools care more about GPA than test scores. I’ve heard often that GPA and rigor are the top two, followed by scores. But my thinking is that for the most part her GPA is set, while test scores could go, even by a good bit with a combo of practice/luck. However, if I felt her school work was suffering at all, I would tone down or cut out SAT/ACT study. Also if she gets a 1520 on June SAT, I won’t make her take any more tests!
On ACT/SAT, I’m focusing a bit more on ACT this year because of the new SAT. I feel like a lot of schools aren’t going to quite know what to do – direct comparison, CB concordance, their own concordance? So the ACT is more straight-forward. Her school also gives the ACT, but I would have her take both no matter what. I know my oldest D did far better on SAT than ACT (taking each once)
@eh1234, thanks for the CSU GPA info!
@snoozn I am finding some of our schools to not state whether or not they superscore which is annoying, I would like to know! We we will need to contact the ones that are unclear. Unfortunately it does not look like Oregon state or Ohio U superscore and both recommend writing so I guess Sept will include it after all. S doesn’t know I was considering letting him not do the writing so it’s just as well. I don’t know if the Sept registration is up yet, I need to move his June missed test.
We have 6 EA schools, assuming he applies to all of them and that could easily change. One is a Dec 1 date though so it will be fine. Of the 5 remaining, one does not superscore, one does not, 3 I “think” superscore based on general research but it isn’t publicized on the websites and one I have absolutely no clue. It’s the one that officially does not that bums me out. We will have to play that one by ear and see…it may make sense to wait for RD and just apply early but that’s not my first choice. I just don’t like either of the scores we have to work with if sending just one score.
I plan to read All the Light We Cannot See, had just reserved at the library and it will hopefully be ready for weekend reading!
@eandesmom I seem to remember Oregon State saying they don’t superstore. But my memory isn’t 100%.
Since the only test DS’s has taken is the new SAT. I have no idea how to judge the writing grade. He got a 17/24. (6/8, 5/8, 6/8) whatever that means and it seems the schools have no idea what they are looking for from this grade. And I have no idea how to judge. Decided though I’m not having him retake the exam just for the writing part.
He will probably send the writing section to Oregon State. Will have to to the UC’s. It’s certainly one of the weak links in his portfolio. I figured if nothing else this illustrates that essay writing is his DS weakest link and possibly why he gets A’s in honors math and B’s in CP English.
@curiositycat333 correct, OSU does not superscore. That is the one I wish did! Neither does Temple. So, if we want to do the early notification date we will have to send a score that we have which is not ideal but probably good enough. Not enough for the higher merit but we will need to be resubmitting grades (I hope) anyway along with a better score to hopefully bump him up a notch anyway. For Temple we may need to wait, we will see. I’d rather do EA but we should be able to view scores and at least know if they are better before deciding to send/apply EA in time.
The writing just delays the score, that’s the part that annoys me. The bigger question is if we do any free score reports in sept. We may just see how he feels after and then decide.
@eandsmom One last question before I bury myself in work. I have been procrastinating & doing stuff I shouldn’t half this AM.
What is your take on UW. I initially didn’t suggest it to S17 because a) too suburban b) too much a reach. I have only seen it once 25 years ago, and my memory is that is’s in suburban Seattle correct?
Playing around with Naviance I realized that yes it’s a bit of reach but not as much of one as I though. There is a wait listed then accepted node, and it does have other student who were accepted with lower GPA. (That’s aren’t complete outliers.) Seems to me it’s more of a low reach, not impossible reach. (Is there a better term for this… I consider Ivy’s/Standford/Berkley impossible and not even worth looking at or applying.)
I guess I really trying to find a few more reach schools (but not by too much) for him to consider. If UW application was common app it would be easier to get him to consider it but not sure the effort of filling in another application.
@curiositycat333 lol! I hear you on the procrastination front. UW is far more urban than suburban. It is within the city limits and very close to downtown, pretty densely populated area. The application is a bear I am told, though none of our kids have actually applied there. I am an alumn so that part saddens me a bit as I loved it. It is a huge school and unless you get involved with something (greek, sports, music, something) it can be very lonely according to many I’ve known either back in my day or S17’s friends. That said, it is a great school but a big one. Huge huge classes. I didn’t speak to a professor my entire time there outside of a make up final. Engineering is wicked competitive to get into and impacted. From a general admit standpoint it would be a reach for your S but with the test scores, not totally impossible (waitlist more likely I would think to start). However it would be a high reach to get direct admit into engineering I would think, which means if he got in, it would be pre-engineering and getting actually into engineering, from pre, I am told, is next to impossible. That is heresay of course and second hand but I’ve heard it enough to believe it’s valid. If my S applied (he has zero interest), he would not be going for engineering. He may change his mind, you never know but it is a reach for him, very possibly a high one but not impossible. It has gotten even more competitive in the last 3 years. This is what our Naviance looks like.
Class/Apply/Admit/Enroll
2016 85 38 33
2015 49 33 20
2014 101 61 43
By way of example, close friends D16 was admitted to Notre Dame, USC (with Presidential Scholarship, half tuition) waitlisted at Harvard, and did NOT get direct admit into engineering. She’s going to USC lol.
@eandesmom DS isn’t defiantly going for Engineering. It’s just one possibility. One we need to keep in mind or it won’t be possible. A few places on his list like UofO don’t have engineering at all. Wasn’t really thinking of UW for Engineering, just for general stem of some sort. Is it really that much larger than UofO or most of the UC’s. Most UC’s have around 20-25K undergraduates.
I suspect it feels larger than U of O simply due to the fact that many kids are commuters. Big school in big city versus big school in college town can really change the feel. It is so big there are plenty that are not commuters, but there is no live on campus requirement, only 60% of the freshmen live on campus which contributes to it feeling big and disconnected for some. It’s more Berkely sized I think. 31k ish undergrad, 14K or so grad. But if you get involved in something (great marching band but competitive to get in) then it’s not so big at all. I was in the Greek system and loved it but had dorm friends who hated it. Truth be told, were it not for the greek system I am not sure how I would have met folks. I can’t say I met anyone in class outside of the system that I ended up becoming friends with and I did have many classes that didn’t have anyone I knew in them so it wasn’t just that I stuck to my smaller group. I am still close friends with many from college though so for me, it was absolutely the right place.
Some of S’s friends are having similar experiences both on the commuting and the dorm side. If he isn’t going for engineering there he will have a better shot for sure. I did not realize U of O didn’t have engineering at all, that kind of boggles my mind!
Around 7,800 students live on campus at UW, including over 68% of freshmen. Most of the “commuters” live in apartments, rental houses and Greek houses (including 1,200 freshmen) in and around the U District and walk, bike or skate to campus.
@eandesmom, that might be a good thing that not all the schools say whether they superscore. I’m always hearing around cc that students should “demonstrate interest” by asking questions of the admissions office. It can actually be hard to think of a question that’s not answered on the web site. I’d make sure your S sends the question from whatever email he’s been using for college contacts. Okay, that sounds silly, but maybe it really does make some small difference!
Six of D’s schools have EA and of those, five superscore either test – pretty nice. The one that doesn’t is a low reach by my definition. After we see her June SAT score I’ll think further about whether EA is the best option there.
@curiositycat333, yep, it’s always hard not only to define safety/target/reach, but then to further refine those to be more meaningful.
I’ve been using a site called Niche (I don’t think I can link it, but search for niche and colleges) You set up a profile with GPA and scores and then you can look at all the colleges in a list with the “chance” to get in. I don’t know how accurate these numbers are, but I find them useful to rank the schools relative to each other.
The four I consider reaches range from a 30% to 47% chance of getting in. Merit at these (assuming she even gets in) seems unlikely without a decent test score bump. I guess I’d classify these as one high, one medium and two low reaches. Fortunately, I don’t think we’re looking at any of the “impossible reaches!”
The six targets give her a 63% to 74% chance of admittance. My hope is that at least maybe two or three of these will come through with good enough merit. The targets are close enough to each other that I’m not sub-categorizing them for now. I’m not looking at the three safety “chances” since they are all auto-admit and affordable.
So now I’ve copied these to a spreadsheet with school name, D’s rank from her list, and chance percentage. Then I’ve gone in to the profile and changed the scores to see what happens. For example, raising her ACT by two points would up the chances anywhere from six to ten points. It also leaves only two schools at <50% chance. This is another thing I’ll mess around with more after June SAT scores are in.
@eandesmom, thanks much for the info on UW engineering. That’s disheartening. My S17 liked UW based on our visit–though he is concerned it’s too big. Your report seems to back up what S17’s GC told him–a high reach for my 3.2 GPA/35 ACT kid from a very good prep school–but based on reading the available admissions stats I thought the GC was overly pessimistic. Maybe not, especially for engineering 
@Hankster1361, according to UW’s common data set, 2.08% of enrolled freshmen had an unweighted GPA under 3.25 (avg. was 3.78), but if anyone could overcome those odds (and potentially launch to great heights in college), it would be your son with that fantastic 35 ACT.
@Hankster1361 ^^^ I agree. I think it’s worth a shot if it seems a fit. Same goes for @curiositycat333 with the nice SAT.
I don’t know my friends D’s actual stats. It is quite likely she was simply another local white girl from a very good prep school with very typical EC’s (lots of leadership and LAX, maybe cheer) but still kind of the classic white girl without a real hook and that played better (for her) out of state.
It really depends on the major and you know the truth is, kids who don’t get direct admit to the school of choice can get in, it’s just a lot harder. Same girls older sister is a rising junior there. Was not a slam dunk for admission to start with. Completely beat the odds and gained admission this year to the nursing program. Not the same thing of course but she was the classic middle stats kid and her parent were sure she’d have to transfer if she wanted to stay with nursing. I wouldn’t encourage it as a safe strategy but it’s not impossible either.
Any school is as big or small as you make it I think 
^ So true.
The only majors at UW that have a freshman direct admission pathway are business administration, music and other audition based majors and some of the engineering majors (I would be surprised if more than a few hundred out of the 6,500 freshmen get into their majors this way – mostly to Foster). The vast majority apply to their majors at the end of their freshman or sophomore year.
Note the entering engineering majors after enrolling at Washington involves another competitive admission process:
https://www.engr.washington.edu/current/admissions/admitstats