Wooster’s NPC doesn’t ask for much info, so I am taking their numbers with a giant grain of salt, sadly.
It’s Wyoming that has Rocky Mtn Scholars, not CSU. CSU does have some scholarships for OOS but I don’t know if they are automatic. Rocky Mtn Scholars is automatic based on scores and gpa. The chart in on the Wyoming FA page.
I’m also disappointed when I see that schools don’t accept any LoR’s. A few are schools where she hopefully won’t need a boost, but there a few where I think it could make a real difference. My big paranoia is that I’m shooting too high, especially in terms of getting merit. But at this point we’re just moving forward and will see what happens.
I think D is very lucky in terms of safeties. She doesn’t want a big U, but CU-Boulder and CSU are both great engineering schools, so there won’t be a lower standard of education if she ends up at either. Both are auto-admit into College of Engineering from her HS and in-state, so true safeties. WWU is almost certainly a safety, but apparently WUE merit is not guaranteed. I think she’ll be applying plenty early to get it, but I’m not going to take it for granted. We are looking forward to our visit and hopefully it will be a safety (or close enough) that she’ll love.
@jmek15, CU’s engineering school is very well regarded. D17 and I attended a “girls in engineering” event and were really impressed with the professors and students who spoke. She is also taking a DE engineering class (in the ECE department) and really likes it. CU is very low on her list, but that’s mostly because she wants to get away on her own and because she prefers a smaller school.
Have you looked into CSU? We visited there and D liked it fairly well for it’s size. I was very impressed myself. It’s about $4000/year cheaper than CU. There are some small auto-merit scholarships based on grades and GPA at both schools, but I don’t know what else either offers to OOS students.
As for oldest D’s issues, none were due to anything particular about CU (as compared to any other big U). She very much wanted to attend a small, quirky LAC (top choices were Hampshire and Sarah Lawrence), but those did not work out financially. Also, she’d gone to a non-traditional non-college-prep HS which left her unprepared for college classes at the beginning. Once she found her “tribe” (pretty much the dance department and the science fiction club!) and classes became smaller, she was a lot happier.
@klinska, What is your D’s planned major? I had the same NPC paranoia (Case’s NPC says $22,000 in merit and I don’t know if she’d even get in – weird!). But it looks like (at least from her list) the more selective schools are often more generous. I was looking at her list in order of percent merit given to non-need students and found Gonzaga and UVM to be generous, as well as being schools where D would very likely be admitted (at least I think so…) You might want to look into those.
@eandesmom, we had CSU on our list for awhile, and even though I think that is a part of the country she’d be interested in exploring more, she didn’t have any real drive to go there and so it sort of slipped off. When I did the NPC for CSU, we didn’t get anything in aid other than federal loans (but it was the CollegeBoard NPC, and there were no opportunities to include GPA or SAT score).A further look at the CSU website shows that she’d be eligible for $6,000-8,000 per year based on her stats–which would get us to a financially affordable place, but then we have additional travel expenses. Wyoming would definitely be a financial and academic safety–but I don’t see that as a fit for her socially/culturally. I thought about Ohio University, since D seemed to want initially to go to a larger school, but she’s not really into big school sports (she rejected UConn because basketball is so big there), and her current sweet spot for school size seems to be around 5000-10,000-even though most of the school on her list are much smaller than that (she’s not as opposed to smaller as she was at first). I will take a look at Bradley–thanks for that rec.
@kt1969, Wooster is the one NPC I actually come close to trusting. Someone here on CC reached out to let me know that their DC received considerable merit with stats similar to my D’s stats–and I’ve heard from other sources that they are generous, so I’m keeping my fingers crossed…
@snoozn, D’s major is political science–not an impacted major anywhere, I would think, and available just about anywhere–so in that regard, I think we’re OK. UVM is on the list–similar to her OOS public safety, it’s financially doable, but I’m not sure it’s worth $10,000-15,000 more a year than our in-state public flagship (which used to be her top choice and now she’s turning her nose up at it, even though she’d be lucky to get in–does anyone else hate how kids get together and start badmouthing each other’s choices without any real information??). I would consider UVM a match but not a safety for my D.
@klinska I only did the NPC on Wooster’s site, which only asks very basic questions and no place to put in the GPA or scores or anything. It came out at $20K in merit based on no information about D17 whatsoever. They also offer an Early Aid Estimator, which I haven’t done, as I think it submits the info to the school and then gets back to you when someone has reviewed it. Did you do that?
@klinska I hear you, I think that is my S’s sweet spot for a size as well and I’ve had an impossible time finding schools that are affordable, meet his req’s and are at that size. We currently only have one that’s made the cut, Ithaca. I can’t recall if you have that on your list or not. Do look at Bradley, it’s one of those that has been “tabled” for S to re-look at depending on how things come in. His hang up with it is the location but it hits pretty much everything else. And they have the best NPC I’ve ever seen at any school so if nothing else, run theirs as they give you some amazing data on payment plans and the like so you can “really” see what it would look like.
I do think it is assumed no one pays sticker prices at the privates and I don’t get hung up on the 10-15k or more that is shown. The list prices are so crazy high that the NPC can show a crazy amount of merit money and it still comes in high 30’s or right at 40k. The midwest LAC’s seem to have a lower starting tuition price and so seem to come out a bit more favorable.
I have the same feeling about UVM which is also on our list (we have a lot of overlap I think!). I’m hard pressed to see how it could be worth 15K (or more) than the in state directional that is at the same size. Yes, it’s OOS and in a lovely area and a fabulous school but it will be pricey to get there. I also see it as a match for my S, not a safety. It is very very strong and known for the programs he wants but…so is the directional. I agree on Clark, it’s not on our list as I can’t see it being affordable but it looks fabulous. We are with you in that tough spot of finding some really lovely matches but with stats what they are, a decent chance of getting in maybe but not so much for merit. UMass Amherst does look lovely, I’ve thought about it for S but I know he’d say too big. He would be lucky to get into our flagship, and honestly, very likely not to. At present he will not apply, which is ok since WWU is the better fit by a landslide even if his stats matched the flagship.
The one thing I would say for CSU is that travel cost wise you are going into Denver so that part is quite easy and the town of Fort Collins is really fabulous. It is too big for my S and it doesn’t have the right programs really but it really is a lovely option I think, and I hope S19 considers it. S19 is focused on CA though so that will be its own nightmare I am sure.
Out of curiosity, in order of COA (so not necessarily size of merit shown in the NPC but the end total COA), at present ours looks like this, lowest to highest.
Western Washington University
Allegheny
Ursinus
Goucher
University of Vermont
Ithaca
University of Puget Sound
I’ll need the NPC’s to be accurate at a minimum, or higher for anything other than WWU to work. For the last 3 we really need a bit more. Ithaca I may be willing to stretch the most for, I just don’t think I’ll be able to justify stretching for UVM over WWU and those travel costs will be ugly (not that Ithaca wouldn’t be lol). I am also more likely to willing to stretch for Allegheny simply as their program for his area is truly outstanding, arguable the best on his list IMHO. UPS has a decent shot of Music or Theater $$ so it’s staying on the list (plus no travel costs). Of course that assumes he actually gets into all of them.
I sit there and wonder at times, what is the point of all this work if the only real option ends up being the directional? Which is not at all to dismiss what a truly solid option it is but I do wonder sometimes if this is all an exercise in futility. While I can hope that one comes back with some amazing offer that is dramatically better than what the NPC shows…I realize the odds are not in our favor and the chances slim to non existent. I can hope that the privates consider my SD’s tuition costs and factors that in as a need item. Again, slim to non existent. At the end of the day I suspect every single one of them will come in 50-75% higher than WWU. So the question becomes, at what price is “smaller” more intimate, better fit for your child, worth it? I can see that at 90k for all 4 years, the directional seems ridiculous not to just run with and call it good. But $150-175…what does one “really” get for that extra 60-80k? Will being more nurtured, as I strongly suspect he would be at 5 out of the other 6 options, pay off at that level?
I guess I just wish it could be apples to apples but it isn’t going to be. I’m not really complaining at all, it is what it is and he’s limited himself to this scenario but…bleh. I am no help I realize, but I share your pain. At least your D will test again, mine at present is refusing to. I did agree to it as if the attitude is he won’t do better…he won’t but I think he is wrong on that front, I really do.
@eandesmom, I’m having the same thoughts and issues.
@klinska I second @eandesmom’s recommendation that you might want to take a look at some of the Western schools. For example, your daughter’s 3.3 and 1270 new SAT would get her free tuition at the University of New Mexico under the Amigo scholarship. Some of the schools in Washington state are also a very good value and offer reduced OOS tuition for students in the B+ range.
https://scholarship.unm.edu/scholarships/non-resident.html
@eandesmom FWIW, I think WWU is much more appealing than U Mass Amherst. U Mass is difficult to access (2+ hours from the Boston Logan airport depending on traffic) and the campus is ugly, although the surrounding area is very nice. It’s very large with the administrative bureaucracy that comes with it. Yes, it has excellent professors, a sterling honors program, great food, and every major you could desire. It has also become increasingly competitive and has a number of impacted majors. I wouldn’t waste a whole lot of regrets on it. The more I research WWU, the more I like it. A number of high achieving students from my daughter’s school have ended up there on the WUE plan and have had great experiences.
If when the dust settles, it’s WWU, that wouldn’t be a bad thing. I don’t think it’s futile to make the attempt to explore other options. You only know the upper limits when you test them.
@eandesmom, Ithaca was on our list, we even went to visit, but D ultimately decided she didn’t like it. If she was a communications/journalism major, or was into theatre/music, it would have been good, and I have to assume that it’s a good engineering school or you wouldn’t be considering it, but it’s not particularly known for poli sci and the campus left her meh. I can totally understand why it’s a fit for your S, though. Had it stayed on our list, it would have probably been in the same category as many of our others–possible admission, but stats that wouldn’t garner much in the way of merit. I agree with @mamaedefamilia–I don’t think the work you’re putting in is futile–it’s due diligence so that your S can feel good about the choice he ultimately makes, and you’ll know you’ve done everything possible to present him with options that meet all needs. I totally hear you on how impossible it is to put a value on fit when it comes down to actual and specific dollars and cents.
Geographically, I think the Southwest is going to be a hard sell–I might try to talk D into putting CSU back on the list, though. We had a lot more on our list at one time that were in the PNW, but we’re down to Lewis & Clark now. I was really rooting for UPS!
You guys!!!
I just read S’s final draft of his Common App essay. Such a dramatic improvement and I am so proud! I desperately want to add one comma but oh, his voice loud and clear. I’ll keep my comma comment to myself.
@mamaedefamilia that what I keep coming back to. None of the OOS universities seem to offer anything better or in many cases even close to what he can get at WWU. Its competitors (on his list anyway) truly offer something different. So there is that and yes, I feel we have to try or we will never know. But we really are lucky to have such a fabulous option and he would be happy to attend and do just fine.
@“Queen’s Mom” at least there is some comfort in knowing your aren’t alone.
@eandesmom, I’m torn between being really happy for you that your S has a great essay and being terribly jealous (D hasn’t even started–so much for my grandiose summer plan). That’s great news! I love that you can hear his voice so clearly! That’s what you want in an essay!
@kt1969, meant to respond to you–yes, I did do that estimator with Wooster–I totally forgot about that. I should get something in the mail soon.
@klinska , I just went and did it also. We’ll see what happens. D17 also has an interview with them locally on National Interview Day, plus just found out they are coming to her HS and she’s signed up for that also. So hopefully not visiting won’t be a big deal, as they do consider interest level as “important”–we just never made it out there from MA this summer, but I love what I read about it. Also, she hasn’t started her essay either, in case that makes you feel any better. Sigh. Those Nov 1 deadlines are coming up quickly. She was having a meltdown the other day about her AP Comp Sci class [teacher is terrible etc] and then pulled out “And I don’t even want to GO to college!” Sigh. I think she is worried about intense party culture which isn’t her thing. I told her that it wasn’t a big part of my college experience and doesn’t need to be a part of hers if she doesn’t want it to be, and mentioned substance-free housing, which it seems like everyone has these days. Oh, the drama.
@klinska oh I’m sad she didn’t like UPS! What all did you look at out here? L&C is really really lovely but I’d be concerned about merit there. You have probably already considers and discarded but Seattle University, University of Portland, Gonzaga and Seattle Pacific University are all good for merit at our stats. SS11 graduated from SPU and we are amazed at what he has leveraged out of his connections there. Pacific Lutheran is another local popular one.
@kt1969 the drama is real. At least you can get your kid to believe demonstrated interest is important and attempt to show it. Mine refuses to open emails from schools in his list!
Or refuses and then retracts and says he knows he probably should for those but thinks it’s really stupid. We now have drama over the activities list.
I think a lot of time is spent looking at schools, applying, waiting, worrying, and the kid ends up at the state school. I’m not sure it is a waste of time because it is a learning process, and sometimes you have to kick a lot of tires before deciding what car is right (and affordable).
I can’t tell you the number of classmates of my kids who were ‘committed’ athletically, academically, psychologically to OOS schools (Kansas, ASU, Texas), private schools (NYU, Rollins, Washington College) who end up at CU or CSU. Some actually start at those other schools but transfer after a semester or a year. Just heard about one at BU who is transferring next semester to CU, and I know one who went to Reed and didn’t make it a year. Ironically, too much pot smoking so she transferred to CU where people complain that because it is legal for some it is just Woodstock II in front of Old Main.
My own disappointment was that I did all the financial aid work and then daughter took a semester off, forfeiting all that aid that I’d lined up.
@eandesmom, We really only considered UPS, Willamette, and L&C–I’m not totally keen on sending her clear across the country, but was willing to consider it–she picked the schools, I stayed out of it. We haven’t been out to see any of these schools–if she does end up applying it will have to be blind and then we’ll see what happens if she gets accepted. She may not be quite as averse to Catholic schools as your S, but she’s close, so Gonzaga, Seattle University, and University of Portland probably wouldn’t even come under serious consideration without a compelling reason.
And that’s the thing: for her major, which is offered pretty much everywhere (but not Champlain College in VT, much to my chagrin, as I was hoping for another shot at having an excuse to visit Burlington), what is the compelling reason to go somewhere really far away when she has plenty of good schools within a day’s drive she could choose from? If she had a truly burning desire to experience another part of the country, that would be one thing, but I’m not getting that from her.
How is it that I’m looking for more options for my D while at the same time am feeling overwhelmed by the sheer volume of schools out there??
Had a brief chat with her GC today (was in the school for another reason): she suggested taking a look at the SUNY schools. Anyone here considering SUNY from OOS?
@twoinanddone oh that would be frustrating on the aid! We know some kids that have fallen into that reload scenario, coming back after a semester or a year but interestingly enough most who have gone OOS have thrived at their schools. Funny about going from Reed to CU. That’s classic. I have to admit I won’t be unhappy if S ends up somewhere that it is not legal and not so prevalent.
@klinska We aren’t looking at engineering these days, environmental studies/science preferably with a strong renewable energy and sustainable systems focus. Plus music and theater. Ithaca has a solid ENVS program in a great location for it. There are 3 other on his list that have stronger programs specific to the energy piece. However the combo of size, music, theater available at Ithaca may well override the stronger programs to make it S’s top choice of the moment. That’s fluid of course and in paper, we’ve not visited and won’t unless accepted and it’s a chance at being affordable but it is an interesting exercise if nothing else.
We did look at SUNY ESF. The financials looked very doable. S felt it was too narrowly focused even though the programs are perfect it didn’t fit the “what if I change my mind” factor. I have thought about looking at others but don’t feel like I know enough to even figure out which ones might be a good fit.
I hear you on the OOS, my S does really want that so I am trying to deliver it as an option but it really is a pain!
@klinska -
We are in NY but SUNY is not unreasonable for OOS. Go to the website, suny.edu, where you can research all of the schools, see their admission standards, majors and costs. Go to the individual school websites to look at the specific programs and search for scholarships. You’d be surprised how many scholarships SUNY schools offer. Many are geared to students from the school’s local areas but others are by major or department and not all are need based. My D had scholarships every year even though we only qualified for FA the year her brother was also in college.
I have some familiarity with a number of SUNY schools, so feel free to post a question. If I can’t answer you, I might know where to send you to look.
techmom99