@TwinMom2023 My son attends college in Montreal…drinking age is 18. He was not a partier at all in HS but I (correctly) guessed he would partake in college. I had a TON of discussion with him about safety. "When one of your friends has too much to drink…and it WILL happen…you need to make sure they get back to their dorm safely. If it is a female, you make sure that she not only gets back but has someone there to make sure she is fine. (I don’t mean to be sexist but far too often bad things happen to girls when they have had too much to drink.) When we send our kids off to college we need to accept that the element of control (“remember - 11:30 curfew!”) is gone…and it is up to them to be the person who we have raised them to be. It’s scary…but it is part of adulting
@SwimmingDad You’re right. Next August we can have a thread of best drinking safety tips b/f they head off to school.
This is all assuming I survive the application portion of this process.
@swimmingdad Absolutely! Its no use pretending that these things aren’t going to happen. Its much better to help our kids with strategies that acknowledge reality. And then, we all have to give up the fantasy that, by our sage advice and good parenting, we can somehow innoculate them from all the bad things that might happen. My hope is that my kids are smart enough to make mostly wise choices and lucky enough so that their dumb choices don’t have dire consequences.
@gallentjill “My hope is that my kids are smart enough to make mostly wise choices and lucky enough so that their dumb choices don’t have dire consequences.”
Exactly. Just let them survive the bad choices.
@dfbdfb I may not have spent enough time on CC to have a feel for what is pushed too far as D19 is my first to go to college, but I think the ideas that “any student could find their fit anywhere” and “the importance of micro-level fit”, are opposite ends of a spectrum. I suspect there is a sweet spot somewhere in the middle. Most kids, it seems, apply to several schools because no one school is perfect and they know it. Sometimes it is very hard to get an accurate read of a school based on their glossy brochures, social media, or scheduled tours and most of that info covers more than the “macro” stuff. However, it certainly does not show drunk kids stumbling around campus every weekend, or even large groups of privileged white kids flaunting their wealth. Both can make others uncomfortable.
High school seniors may not have any experience with or context for drunken tailgating, or coed bathrooms, or heavy emphasis on Socratic seminars, or any number of college peculiarities. But those things may end up being important to them and they will figure it out quickly. All that said, I fully agree that seeking “micro” level fit is a recipe for disaster - D would have zero schools on her list!
Of the 7000 colleges and universities in the US, there are probably 1000 that my kid could attend, do well at, and thrive. We’ve got to narrow the list down somehow - fit is just as good a criteria to do that as anything.
Fit is a luxury good. If your child has the stats and you have the finances to provide a multitude of college choices then there is no reason not to consider “fit.” After visiting one school, my daughter left with the feeling that it was a great place, but was wrong for her and that she really didn’t feel she fit in. No problem. We have plenty of other schools on the list that she did like. On the other hand, if that were our only choice because of some great scholarship opportunity she would have made due, found a group of friends and been fine. The same would be true if she had to commute to the local public university. She would find her way.
@gallentjill I think my situation may be a little different – I went to a huge school that was a terrible match for my 18 yo self so I’m hung up on my kids having the best experience possible. I wish I had gone to a smaller school as I would have been a better student. Also, my kids struggle with depression so I have an added layer of worry.
@TwinMom2023 I had the same experience. I went to Big State U where I got all the things I needed out of college: friends to last a lifetime, a husband of going on 24 years now, and a degree that got me into grad school with a tuition stipend. I should be satisfied, right? Well, I was never very comfortable with the greater community around me there, and I found it way to easy to fly under the radar and skid by. So I am determined to find some place where my kids will push themselves, try new things and hopefully thrive.
Don’t get me wrong. I think its great to find the right fit for your child if possible. We are certainly working very hard to do that. I’m only saying that it is not a requirement for those who don’t have the opportunity to do so. There are many kids with financial or other constraints and they simply don’t have the option to search for fit. Those kids and their families should not be made to feel bad that they are missing some essential college experience or right of passage. The vast majority of kids in this country don’t have the experience that popular culture leads them to expect.
Here are some random thoughts from my perspective as the parent of a D15 who is now a senior in college. Back when D15 was a freshman, her dad and I both looked back on our college days and thought of lots of ways they could’ve been better. So we gave D15 various bits of advice to guide her to do the things we didn’t but thought we should’ve. A lot of it was urging her to get involved in activities and make more lasting bonds with her classmates. Things that we thought we had missed out on. It’s very natural to see your kid’s college experience as a chance to “do-over” your own.
For the most part it hasn’t worked in the way we envisioned. I thought for sure she’d get involved in stuff like debate and mock trial, maybe some theater and some art which she had also enjoyed in high school. Instead she turned her back on all those high school activities. She pretty much didn’t get involved in any activities freshman year. Seemingly out of nowhere, she recently took up knitting in a big way. While there are lots of online communities of knitters, it’s not exactly a campus social activity. Although surprisingly this turned into a good way to make social connections with other young women at her summer internship because knitters at work spot the other knitters. As a sophomore she got into powerlifting and as a junior she got into ultimate frisbee, after never having any interest in athletic activities in high school. So at the end of the day she charted her own path, which of course is as it should be. By the way she also says she doesn’t really “fit the vibe” at her LAC and wonders if she missed out on stuff. Maybe most of us are destined to come out of college thinking it was good but somehow could’ve been better. But isn’t that natural striving for something better? Maybe people who think their college experience was perfect have also peaked at that point.
I think looking at fit is important. The problem is too often people think that fit is only available at one school and place all their hopes and dreams there . Part of it is fueled by friends and family who say things like" college is the best years of your life" " you’ll make lifelong friends " etc. They set up unrealistic expectations and when the student arrives at school and hasn’t met lifelong friends or doesn’t get along with roommates etc, they feel frustrated and defeated. IMO, we need to start telling our kids that it takes time and work . It doesn’t happen just because you walk onto a college campus.
@carolinamom2boys I get so frustrated when people tell my kids that college will be the best time of their lives. It really does set up all kinds of unrealistic expectations. For many kids, college is a struggle on many fronts. Its bad enough going through a difficult time without the burden of also believing that after college life only gets worse! Moreover, I want my kids to look forward to graduating from college and starting their lives. If college is the best time of life, what is there to look forward to? College is four years. Like everything else, it might be wonderful and it might be a trial. Kids need to be realistic going in.
Warning huge rant: My kids’ school district had a financial aid night for seniors in the district. There were rooms set up for information on the FAFSA (one in English; other in Spanish) and rooms for scholarships. I was kind of disappointed that there were no seminars or information session about COLLEGE DEBT. Nothing. I have told my kids that going to a community college first two years would save them a HUGE amount of money, but this is me telling them. I feel like if they heard it from the teachers/counselors and were taught what it all meant, it would sink in more. And the sessions we went to were all through rose-colored glasses. I am a very realistic person and raised my kids that way - they knew we couldn’t pay for college - but even teenagers still manage to have unrealistic expectations due to peer pressure (they see/hear their friends talk about their own expectations - it gets around). While my D17 did do the community college route, she is so looking forward to transferring to a 4 year school. She feels like she is left out and missing a whole lot of college themed life (I think a reality check will be waiting for her once she finds out the course load of her major). My S19 wants to do the 4 year school route no matter what - I have a feeling that I am going to have to do the sit down with him to make him see the cold hard facts of what he could potentially be looking at in life after college (i.e. paying back the loans). Ugh. Sorry for the rant.
@JaceyK I totally understand your dismay. Our HS really does not address the financial issues. One teacher tries to encourage parents to have the “money talk” so that students understand what will be feasible but everyone else seems to act as if money will just materialize. Or make assumptions about what we can/should spend. I personally think all HS seniors and their parents should watch CNBC’s “Broke, Busted and Disgusted” about the student loan crisis in this country.
@JaceyK yeah there doesn’t seem to be discussion or worry about cost from the school, though the majority of our students do go to community college. But for those that don’t, I wonder how they are managing. DD’19 has several older friends now lamenting the cost of their choices. I am determined not to let that be her and she mostly understands- doesn’t mean she doesn’t wish for a bigger budget sometimes! We talk about how college is only 32 months of her life and how being student-loan-free will better allow her to live the rest of her life the way she wants.
DD’17 is at community college and paying basically no tuition because she gets scholarships. She lives on campus and feels like she’s getting a real college experience, though she was never super into having to have the stereotypical college life. (She won’t be transferring, she will complete her program at CC.) DD’19 wants the real 4 year experience, and for her I agree it would be better. She can get decent freshman merit with her stats. I would prefer to have her in a dorm with a meal plan, get started on her major/minor classes right away, and be in the same place all 4 years instead of having to transfer. So we’re looking to do it cheap. We’ve found a couple of places at $14-15K after auto merit which I think between us and her we can handle with almost no loans. We’ve found other, even cheaper places, but the travel to them was not convenient, or they don’t have her major, or some other issue.
My struggle right now- and I’m sure I’ve mentioned it here before- is the place at $14K (including free books & laptop!) that has everything she wants, and she had a great visit to, she does not particularly want to go to simply because it’s normal for a couple of kids a year from school to go there. So it’s not cool and different. I tried to talk to her last night about how minor that is and how well regarded the school is in our area. Haven’t convinced her yet, and I’d like her to come around on her own. She is set on a rare major and wants to come home easily and stay out of debt, all of which severely limit her choices. So to have this school less than two hours away to me is awesome. Ugh. So that is my rant! 
@bjscheel - any chance she can do an overnight visit? That might get her to see it in a new light.
@mountainmomof3 I don’t know, maybe. I don’t see it as an option on their site. Not sure she would want to go hang out with a stranger but she would be fairly comfortable with a girl who was in her sister’s class. I’ll let her simmer for a while first.
When we visited, she liked the campus, the dorms, the food, the professors, the mascot/colors. Wanted to buy a t-shirt. Even when her cousin who had just transferred there met us for lunch and totally ragged on the place, she told me she wouldn’t let him sour her on it because she knows how he is and she is not like him. But she has also long had the opinion she didn’t want to go there, starting with when we visited for her sister in 2016. And I know it’s hard to reverse your position quickly or admit you might have been wrong! I think she was a little more neutral toward it until the GC told her Monday “Oh a lot of you are applying there!” and that made her negative again.
@bjscheel - S19 refused to apply to our instate flagship because too many kids from his HS go there. It is a great school, especially for his major. And given he his HS is only 1000 kids and the university is about 30,000, I have a hard time believing he will be tripping over former classmates. But since the school isn’t terribly cheap given he would receive max merit available, I hadn’t pushed it. But now I have asked him to at least apply. I don’t want him to regret not having a closer option when it is time that make a final pick.
Come spring time, your D may have a change of heart. Especially when financials are compared. I would definitely try to get her to spend a night with someone she knows - maybe not right away but when the timing is right.
Wishing D19 luck today. We’re on the road for an overnight at her #1. She’s going in with no pre-conceved notions, but is simply looking forward to “seeing what college is all about”. This is exciting for use as only a few months ago she wasn’t even sure she wanted to go to college.