I’m here because I feel strongly that too many people on CC overlook some excellent Land Grant and State universities for the wrong reasons. Yes many do have high acceptance rates and lower graduation rates. Many are doing a lot to get those stats up but still keeping their colleges as places where they give most students a chance to succeed. S goes to Kansas State. He was a higher achieving student who chose this school, OOS, over higher ranked colleges. Why? The faculty there really does care that their students succeed; it has a high ranked program with his major; it has a graduate program he plans to stay and attend; the students are really happy there; the social life if fun without being too distracting to study. After almost a year he, and his valedictorian gf both have 4.0s in challenging degrees and are happy. They don’t want to burn out before grad school (which they both will need). He told me the following:
"We both have lots of friends that were B students in HS that are A or B students now at K-State. Yes we have seen kids drop out. Why? The parents told the kids they were going to college even though the kid had no desire (really wanted to be a cosmetologist, or have a trade, etc). It was a state school and didn’t cost much so the parents made them go. They didn’t study, hadn’t in HS. They dropped out. Others dropped out or transferred because they thought they wanted college but realized they wanted to be back at home. Others just came to have fun and never went to class or study. People tried to help them but if you don’t want to be helped it just doesn’t work.
Then there are the B students in HS who came, want to learn, take advantage of the tutoring, office hours, study groups, etc, get to know professors and thrive! We know more of those than the first type. Schools like mine can be academically challenging (ask our engineering, pre-med, pre-vet, architecture, agriculture, english, etc. students) but we can succeed and have fun doing it!
Keep an open mind to colleges like this. I’m from a suburban area of a major city. I have no trouble being in a small town. Big cities are a couple hours away. Who has time to do much other than school anyway? Just keep an eye open, many of these schools are “hidden gems” but you do have to put in some effort. I believe like my school does that most people deserve a chance to succeed."
@momocarly My DS16 has had a similar experience to your son. He was heavily questioned by students and their parents when he chose the school that he did over the Mecca flagship that many in our state covet. He’s thriving, has had wonderful opportunities and developed great relationships with faculty who truly want their students to succeed. There is no one answer for every student and that’s OK. Or it should be OK. There’s loads of work to do on that front.
I visited Earlham back in my barely B student days and it was a strong possibility. Kiddo wants either New England or LA schools so it has never hit his radar, but every time I see the name I get a little bit sad that he’s not considering it and I don’t have the excuse to visit again.
Attended the UMBC Just for Junior Day yesterday and it was pretty terrible and DD quickly crossed this one off the list.
First, it was packed. Even getting into the parking lot was a mess.
Second, they started the whole day off talking about their recent basketball victory over UVA. Two months ago no one even knew they had a team and that was not the reason we were there.
Third, the campus is just plain ugly and run down. Many old building in dire need of maintenance. The tour groups were way too large, probably over 100 in our group. We skipped out half way through and did our own tour.
Next up is JMU and Towson. Trying to squeeze in one visit down south but finding it tough to find inexpensive flights. Found a cheap flight to Charleston but the College of Charleston tour we wanted to do is now full.
In fairness, @DCNatFan, the UMBC tournament win probably did put them on the radar for a few people who didn’t even think about them before, and it’s got to be a pretty big deal for the student body—so i’d give them a pass on spending a few minutes on it.
Chiming in on the graduation rate discussion. That is a statistic that was important for my S17’s college searches, to the point of even having it on the spreadsheet. My S17 was very lopsided–low GPA and very high test scores. He had a strong rising trend in his GPA, and he didn’t lack confidence or have anxiety issues, which impacted how I thought about schools for him (engineering). I took the number with a grain of salt for all of the reasons people have already posted. But the number was important to me because it correlated (even if loosely) to the school having lots of investment in having their students graduate, with extra support readily available, etc., strong advising, etc. On the “where do you think you’ll succeed” basis he chose his highest reach school–a private with high retention/graduation rates that offered lots of support. I was happy with that decision because I believed he would benefit from being around mostly strong hard-working students–the “rising tides raises all ships” theory. I had a concern that if many of his peers were not taking school seriously, it would impact how he performed. And I liked that lots of support was readily available in many forms. So far he’s doing well, and he really is enjoying his time at school, even though he’s working harder than he’s ever worked–but that’s what all of his friends/dorm mates are doing.
@Hankster1361 I love hearing your S17 is doing so well!!! It’s amazing how if in the right environment they really do step up to the plate!
It’s interesting. We looked at grad rates for S17 as well and he really felt it irrelevant. He was very clear that he didn’t care what the numbers said “he” had zero intention of taking longer than 4 years and I needed to trust him.
I think you do need to know your own kid. D#2 is a ‘by the rules’ kid. They gave her a schedule and she stuck to it. No chance of not graduating on time. D#1 is more of a ‘free spirit’ and is fine with taking longer.
@eandesmon – yes, I think it all depends on the kid. My S17 didn’t work very hard until his last year 1/2 of high school. So I was concerned that he could backslide if not in an environment with lots of other hardworking students. My experience in college likely played a factor in how I viewed this. I did better in college than HS, because my friends were smart serious students.
We’ve had a big change for the worse attitude wise. A week ago he was beaming and happy about his SAT scores and eager to try to get them a bit higher. Then this past weekend his group of friends all compared scores. Now he tells me his scores are terrible and maybe he shouldn’t even retake the test because its useless. Added to this, he got his third quarter grades and he’s quite unhappy. He got a C in Spanish and just missed an A by a fraction of a point (got an A-), in three of his best classes. He’s in “why should I even try” mode. I hope this is all temporary.
And we have another problem, which I think may be related. S has a new job at a supermarket working as a cashier. He is working a lot of hours. Way too many in my opinion. He’s been averaging about 21/wk and some days are just awful. Yesterday he went to work straight from school and worked until 7:45, then went to the gym after. He left the house at 7 in the morning and got home about 9:30 at night. I’ve tried to tell him that he needs to scale this back and tell them he can’t work that many hours but he won’t do it. He likes the money. Minimum wage here in MA is $11, plus he gets time and a half on Sundays so his weekly take-home pay is over $200. He only uses this for spending money, so he really doen’t need it. Actually he doesn’t have time to spend it so the bank account is growing, so that’s good, but really not necessary at this point in his life.
But back to the big problem - he’s exhausted. Between school, working, and going to the gym (which he refuses to scale back), he is never home and when he is home, he is too tired to even carry on a conversation. He had a paper due on Monday and he kept falling asleep over the computer while trying to finish it on Sunday night. I’m not sure what has to go. I’d like him to cut hours on the job, and to skip the gym on days when he’s too tired. But, my H loves the fact that he’s doing so much and says there’s no problem and doesn’t know why S keep falling asleep. H says that S eventually get used to getting by on less sleep - its all what you are used to.
Add all this to the fact that S refuses to go on any college visits yet. The only school he has said he wants to visit is Pitt, which is a big reach for him. I want him to visit some that aren’t reaches. I think his plan is an early application to Pitt, which has rolling admissions, and then if he gets in, he’s done. If he doesn’t get in, then he’ll worry about other schools.
@me29034 FYI - Pitt will be on the Common App next go around. Also, there have been rumors that Pitt is doing away with rolling admissions next year. Something to keep an eye on.
@me29034, you might want to find some sleep data for your DH. It shows that teens desperately need sleep, and that their brain development, physical health, attitude, etc. etc. are affected when they skimp on it. In fact, car accidents involving student drivers would be reduced by 70% throughout the day (not just in the mornings) if we implemented later start times in our schools because lack of sleep make them poor decision makers. There is an avalanche of data on the benefits of starting school later, which includes solid info about what occurs in teens’ brains when they are sleep deprived. (Edited to correct errors!)
@EastGrad My brother in law is on our grade-school school board and just got the board to vote on moving start times later for the middle schools (6th-8th grade). Now, they don’t start until 8:45. There’s a lot of talk about later start times for high school but no school seems to want to be the first to do it. Sports after school is a big issue as that would then run later if the kids started later. Also, some parents don’t like later start times if both parents are working and want to send their kids out to school before they leave for work.
Our high school has late start Mondays which means the kids start school at 9:00 instead of 8:00. On those days, our kids wake up by themselves without alarms and are much more awake come first period. For them, there’s a big difference between getting up at 6:30 and 7:30. Both of our kids have math first period so that’s rough.
I’ve been nuts about them getting enough sleep since they were little. (Can anyone say “sleep schedule” for babies and toddlers?!) Even now, I insist that they don’t waste time and get to bed by 10:30 most nights, 11:00 at the very latest and that only happens maybe twice a month. That gets them eight hours…not enough for a growing teen but really the best they can do during the week. S19’s track coach is also always on them about getting to bed on the early side.
@EastGrad My brother in law is on our grade-school school board and just got the board to vote on moving start times later for the middle schools (6th-8th grade). Now, they don’t start until 8:45. There’s a lot of talk about later start times for high school but no school seems to want to be the first to do it. Sports after school is a big issue as that would then run later if the kids started later. Also, some parents don’t like later start times if both parents are working and want to send their kids out to school before they leave for work.
Our high school has late start Mondays which means the kids start school at 9:00 instead of 8:00. On those days, our kids wake up by themselves without alarms and are much more awake come first period. For them, there’s a big difference between getting up at 6:30 and 7:30. Both of our kids have math first period so that’s rough.
I’ve been nuts about them getting enough sleep since they were little. (Can anyone say “sleep schedule” for babies and toddlers?!) Even now, I insist that they don’t waste time and get to bed by 10:30 most nights, 11:00 at the very latest and that only happens maybe twice a month. That gets them eight hours…not enough for a growing teen but really the best they can do during the week. S19’s track coach is also always on them about getting to bed on the early side.
@me29034 I would schedule a visit to Pitt soner than later. I think if he goes and then sees what the stats are of the incoming class , and he really wants to go, he might have an AHA moment. i know this has happened to my kids. My D17 by april her Junior year was doing so horribly in school and had sorta “given up”, but after college visits worked really hard and got her act together. Last week my S19 and I went on visits including CMU. For a split moment he wanted to “go for it” , but alas decided not worth it as the atmosphere is not what he wants, but still knows for his target schools he needs to do certain things. I assume he is driving himself to this job? Whose car is it? Or you could offer to pay him the amount of the hours he would be losing if you can afford to do so. But honestly he needs to get his Aha moment; many of these kids think that they will snap their fingers and get into the schools they want.