^ I think it’ll possibly be the same at UChicago. Mandatory testing and isolation will only apply to those living on-campus; perhaps a third of total UG population. They said they know some will get sick. That’s inevitable. Their goal is to contain the spread which is probably easier at a smaller private uni with a relatively self-contained population than a large public institution. Anyone living off campus can be tested too and that’s likely to be the case at any university (public or private) with an on-ste medical center. Even if kids don’t volunteer and possibly spread it asymptomatically, those families at risk can always require their kid to be tested right before leaving campus for home, and then have them isolate until the test results are known.
That’s interesting. NYU is requiring arrival tests from anyone who wants to enter an an academic building or other facility regardless where they live (as well as dorms of course, but only residents are allowed into dorms at the moment). Random testing will also be carried out continually and is mandatory for those using facilities. Basically if you don’t want to get tested, stay off campus and go all online. Not sure what the legalities are, didn’t see anyone talk about that angle.
Last night, 8 or 9 kids posted on CC that they just got accepted off the extended waitlist for Stanford. When has that ever happened in August! This has been such an unusual and bumpy ride for 2024s!
As of now, Frosh and Sophomores (plus a small number of upperclassmen approved for housing) are still scheduled to move in sometime the week of September 8th, with class starting Sept 14. Mostly online classes, with a few exceptions. We still don’t know (1) where she will live/what dorm (2) what day to move in or (3) her class schedule. Housing assignment request are due tomorrow. I like that they allowed students to sign up for housing with up to 8 friends to be a housing co-hort, that you will be allowed to hang out with, study with, eat with.
I am routing for Stanford to pull off this return to campus, and I think it is probably as well suited as any university to do so due to some things specific to Stanford, but am daily questioning if it will happen or not.
@Outlander I hope Stanford goes for it as well! If U Chicago can have kids on campus, certainly Stanford can.
Could be misremembering but thought Stanford and UC had different plans. UC has invited everyone back for the entire academic year so won’t be switching various cohorts or class levels on or off campus. Your dorm room is yours for the year; if you live off-campus you can attend in-person or hybrid courses and also use whatever facilities are available (such as the libraries or hopefully the athletic center). I think UC’s location and res life culture have helped facilitate this outcome, although I was sort of expecting it anyway. UC typically doesn’t see third and fourth years requesting housing, although rising rents in Hyde Park along with nicer newer dorms in recent years (with one to open this fall) have increased that number along with capacity. Currently, given de-densification, the College had enough (single) dorm rooms for all first years and then any second years who requested it. Any interested 3rd and 4ths were initially waitlisted during the selection process but guessing a few of them got in as well. Then everyone else would be in the neighborhood but living off campus. Profs were allowed to choose what format they wanted to teach, and about 80% of courses will be remote this fall. Hopefully that’ll improve for winter quarter.
Everyone living on campus will have scheduled move-in times and will have to be tested upon arrival and then several times throughout the quarter. They will also be “quarantined” (described more as a stay-at-home) for 10 days, and the first week will be entirely remote as will 10th week and finals week. They are welcome to stay in the dorms through finals week; however, anyone who travels out of state for the TG holiday will need to stay off campus until winter quarter. Remote learning starts at that time anyway so I’m sure some - perhaps many - students will opt to travel home at that time.
Anyone living off campus is encouraged to test for Covid but is not required to. If coming in from an impacted state, they will need to self-quarantine for two weeks per IL order (again, classes are remote that first week to help with this). De-densification is pretty aggressive at 25% of capacity for classrooms, living, eating, etc. Rather than scanning temps at the buildings, the university is putting in place the same protocols required of the healthcare workers at UC Medical which is 2x/day temperature self-checks and mandatory reporting of any symptoms. For everyone. The university epidemiologist has been front and center in communicating with the students, families, grad students, faculty, and everyone else. She said that with the layered approaches they are putting in place, which includes all of the above plus masks, hand-washing, cleaning/ventilation, contact tracing at the university and within the community, etc, you can remove one for a short period of time and still be fine. Like if you have to scoot past someone in the hallway and are less than six feet away, that’s ok if both are wearing masks, are healthy, and washed their hands. Same with elevator protocol. It’ll be de-densified but you don’t have to worry about being less than six feet away from someone else for a very short period of time.
The testing program will be a sentinel surveillance system; assuming everyone’s actually on-campus this fall (an aggressive assumption) that’ll be about 1/3 of the total UG population being tested regularly, with 100% taking their temps and self monitoring daily. I would expect some sort of app to help record the latter but haven’t heard about one yet. Other schools have one. UC is on the quarter system so doesn’t start till end of Sept. They still have plenty of time to finalize details on campus as well as monitor things in Chicago and around the country.
I cannot see hoe Chicago will prevent a major outbreak among their student population if the students are back and are living in dorms of in off campus apartments with multiple roommates. All you need are 10 students who are contagious and either asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic to start an outbreak.
Rates of COVID in Chicago are high, and, with 6,300 undergraduates, the chances that 10 students will be infected in the first month that students are back is close to 100%. There is also a very high likelihood that at least a few students who are returning will be sick.
Half the students are not living on campus. Anybody who has ever visited a student apartment knows that they are barely able to keep basic hygiene, much less the level of hygiene required to keep from spreading a virus.
Large numbers will be “cheating” in their quarantines.
There will be parties off campus with no social distancing.
Moreover, U Chicago is not isolated from the surrounding city.
These are 18-22 year old kids, and they may be smart, but they do not have much more sense than kids who are academically less accomplished.
I am certain that U Chicago will have an outbreak on campus, and I cannot see how they will be able to keep it contained.
Their methods would be appropriate if A, there were fewer students, B, there was a defined campus, and students mostly or all lived on campus, C, it wasn’t right inside one of the largest cities and metropolitan areas in the USA, and D, that city didn’t have very high levels of COVID 19.
The University of Washington just announced that over 90% of its courses will be taught remotely. My daughter will be living in an apartment close to campus with 2 of her best friends. The current plan is that she will live in Seattle most of the time; if her friends wind up at their parents’ homes (which is really unlikely with one), my daughter will come home, too. Unfortunately, our rural satellite internet really isn’t up to the challenge of virtual classes.
To me, these are minor challenges compared to her attending Columbia University, which is 3000 miles away and quarantining Washingtonians. At the moment, I am glad she chose to attend UW instead.
I agree. Same with Duke and NU and Vanderbilt. I don’t get it
Yesterday, Hopkins announced that it is going all on-line for the fall.
With less than four weeks to go, this creates a havoc for all the families and students.
I feel for the sophomore families who had to scramble last minute to sign the leases for off-campus housing and now have to find the way out.
“Although we [JHU] were hoping to resume in-person academic, research, and student-life activities this fall in Baltimore, based on a recent uptick in COVID-19 infections and related public health trends, and the number of our undergraduate students coming from states designated as COVID hotspots, we have decided to instead conduct the fall semester online-only to protect our campus community and neighbors in Baltimore.”
There will be confirmed cases among the students in fall. The question is how many.
I recommend having students returning home for the break to quarantine.
Not a self stay-at-home kind, but a real quarantine where the kids are confined to a separate room and bathroom, the jail kind, especially for the grandparents and family.
This is what I find perplexing . If the college is going all online it’s a not so subtle suggestion that perhaps a large influx of students into the area is unwise and kids should stay at home. Yet the first instinct is for everyone to stay in the community in off campus housing.
@vpa2019
My housing comment was referring to my earlier post a few days ago.
Normally, Hopkins freshmen and sophomores are required to stay in on-campus housing. Over the summer, Hopkins announced that they are converting all the dorms to singles (or singles in suites) and secured off-campus Hotels and apartments (3 miles away from campus) for sophomores. As such, they allowed sophomores to live in off-campus housing if they wanted. Many sophomore families scrambled to sign leases for off-campus housing located closer to campus. Now they have to find a way out of the leases.
I edited my post as well.
@payn4ward
That is frustrating for those sophomores! Hope they’re released from the leases. Your comment was the culmination of many posts about kids frantically searching for off campus housing in the all remote scenario. I personally know at least 10 families or more who all obtained off campus housing for their kids. Just seems directly counter to what the schools are trying to achieve in protecting the surrounding community.
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In our case, we lose connection to video and internet in general enough to feel we have no alternative. During high school, we endured 3 different subpar internet providers and erratic cellular service. Often my daughter had to go to public libraries or stay at school 17 miles from home to complete her work. We had a 4-day power outage when she was finishing her college applications. Unfortunately, with libraries closed, we believe we have no alternative but to house her in Seattle.
- So, actually 2/3rds of total UG population won't be living on campus. It would normally be 50% but res hall capacity has been reduced as part of the de-densification. However, due to some who will inevitably stay away, it's possible that dormies will, indeed, represent 50% of Hyde Park UG population this fall.
- And it's important to point out that this is currently the plan but it might change. Now, I don't expect it to change, but it still might.
- Dorms will be single rooms (that explains the significantly reduced capacity) with common areas off limits for the time being. Everyone will be formally agreeing to self-monitor. Will there be external 'motivators' (such as your CTA pass or meal swipe getting cut off) unless you report? Not sure. But they are stating that this requires the participation of everyone and they seem to mean it.
- As to outbreaks, the current communication is that some will get Covid. Their goal is not to keep it off campus - that's impossible. For instance, some will arrive and test positive. Others will pick it up somehow during the quarter. According to WHO, a well-designed sentinel surveillance system will "signal trends, identify outbreaks and monitor the burden of disease in a community." The south side got hit very hard this spring, and UC Medicine has been involved in treating and monitoring Covid since March. They say they have learned a lot from this experience and are applying that knowledge to monitoring the university community. I guess we'll see how successful they will be.
- There are probably well over 7,000 UG's who have been invited to return. Not 6,300. However, some will opt to stay away or can't get visas. In addition, there are another 10k graduate students, several thousand faculty and instructors and scores of administrative and support staff, contract workers, etc. Some have already begun returning to campus but most have not.
- The need to be considerate of the surrounding community drove the protocols :smile: Being a good neighbor was specifically highlighted as an imperative and, as mentioned up-thread, the south side was hit hard once before. There might be a distinction here between UC and other places, although others can weigh in on that and many of these universities have disease experts who are perfectly capable of leading the decisions. But in all this planning, the infectious disease team at UC Medicine has been not only integrally involved but determining the plan.
- IMO if an outbreak occurs due to practices in violation of the Health Pact that everyone is required to sign, that shouldn't be hard to trace. And of course, everyone will be expected to act like responsible adults here. Keep in mind that the City of Chicago and State of IL also have orders in place about large gatherings. One can really get into a heap of trouble by, say, throwing a large-indoor party or cheating on state-imposed quarantine.
- Speaking of which, there will be effectively zero chance to cheat on initial "stay at home"/quarantines in the dorm space. If someone is isolated due to Covid, there will be even less of a chance :smiley: Those living off campus who are diagnosed positive are required to report and self isolate. It's in the Health Pact.
- Short of being an ID expert ourselves and having reviewed and discussed the University's model for testing and tracing with other experts, we simply can NOT improve upon the methods that the university's own experts have put in place. It's presumptuous to think that we can. There is little doubt that the plan was configured with an understanding of the culture and academic rigor of the school which will help significantly in this matter. "Where fun comes to die" doesn't exactly suggest a "party school." :wink: However, those who have been trying to change the image of UChicago undergraduate culture for years will probably appreciate all the concern. If they were smart, in future years they can relate the story about how parents fretted over parties and outbreaks at UChicago (of all places). If they can follow up with a note stating that it was a needless fear, so much the better!
I have a D the same year as your S and a rising college senior. They’ve both been home since March. I’ve been paying for 2, 12 month leases on apartments, one since January and one since last September. Am I happy to be paying? Not really.
I think we all expect our kids to behave and follow the rules. But the reality is they all won’t. Or they mostly will, but there will be a slip up that results in an infection or outbreak.
I completely under your feelings about friendships etc…but if the country as a whole is going to get this virus under control it has to be a collective effort. If everyone makes an exception for their child then we end up with lots of movement of kids all over the country and into communities which may be in a very good place with the virus or communities which are struggling, neither probably want new residents right now.
My son wants to go back and create a bubble with his friends similar to your son. I’ve voiced my concern and opposition to it but he has laid out very careful plans he has made with his roommates. If I absolutely forbid it, he would stay home.
My daughter’s school is still hybrid and it is in the U.K. so I have zero idea how it’s going to go. Cases are low but they only test symptomatic people…not optimal. They have a 14 day quarantine requirement but no testing in place for students…unless they have symptoms. I want her to stay home and do remote but that could have negative implications for her visa status so we are still discussing it.
Both leases were entered into before the pandemic began. I would not have leased any housing for either child in the last couple of months.
@vpa2019 I just don’t see the difference between S19 staying here in Illinois with this bubble of friends or going to Maine to form a different bubble. He’s not going back to some big party school with frats. The majority of kids he’s living with are taking class so they will be home taking class and studying almost all day, then they will all run (they are continuing to train) and then eat dinner and the kids taking class will likely need to study more. It will be a pretty quiet life. All of S19’s tentative plans are either remote or in person close by and, if he has any job in person, he will follow the rules.
- Maybe they simply know more than us chickens. BTW, Vandy's new chancellor just came over from UChicago. I wasn't surprised at the details of their plan. They, too, have world-class disease experts who are perfectly competent to advise and direct the plan to return to campus.
@homerdog
I agree that your son’s situation probably doesn’t change much between home and Maine. It’s that everyone feels that way about their own child’s experience. So collectively it balloons into a huge effect nationwide.
I’m not saying your son shouldn’t go to Maine, but his school decided to only have 500 or so kids on campus presumably because they felt they could handle that number as far as housing and testing etc thereby minimizing possibly negative effects on the surrounding community. If the remainder of the school body moves in “next door” off campus it negates what the college was trying to do in many respects.
I think it’s an incredibly sad and frustrating time for college kids. However, in many ways it’s still a “first world problem “. Our kids will have friends, and grow and mature whether they live at home or live in a house with friends for this year. JMHO.
I think part of it, too, is that these universities in bigger cities won’t likely be the reason for a big virus breakout. There’s virus already in these cities. For smaller colleges in towns that have low rates of the virus, it’s more risky for the locals to have a bunch of college kids to come back from all over the country.