My kids’ school only offers Spanish (a side effect of its small size), so we’re stuck there.
I took German and Latin in high school; German was almost a cheat since I grew up with Pennsylvania German speakers, and Latin never struck me as all that difficult. (Of course, I only took Latin up through second year, before you get to the properly interesting bits.)
@carolinamom2boys thanks, that is helpful, I could see him at a school like that that is strong in STEM but not necessarily engineering and there are plenty out there.
@me29034 thanks. He will have the 3 years but not the B or better for all of it. However, if he studied I suspect he could pass a placement test…if it was in the near future. 3 years from now, not so much. That said, I am not sure he would mind taking another language in college, if they had different options than what we have. I know he would love to take Latin or German, neither of which are options for us. He does like French though so I hate to see it end like this.
@OrangeFish I had kind of pushed for that 4th year, though not hard, but at the time I didn’t know where the grades would be landing. I do think it would be better for college apps but not at the risk of the GPA.
@mom2twogirls I feel your pain. S17 is having a horrid second semester in Spanish 3 (we don’t offer honors in languages, it’s 1-4 and then AP). Mapped out a plan with his teacher last night and am going to try to engage S19’s french teacher today given how well it went with the Spanish teacher. She gave me hope. I don’t know that I expect the same results in French though.
@ThinkOn he has already satisfied the graduation requirements. His 2 years in MS fulfilled them. As a freshman it’s hard to know what colleges he wants to attend. While he may have ideas now, of both schools and majors, it is so dependent on grades and test scores that I am hesitant to spend a ton of time researching that. His GPA is not at all where I’d expected it to be and what he is capable of and that, at present, is such a wild card it’s truly hard to say. I expect strong test scores but by the time we have a preview with next years PSAT, his courses will be well underway.
@homerdog we do not offer latin. I suspect S19 would have taken if it he could though.
@awesomepolyglot my S would be quite jealous that you have German as an option. We used to, and they removed it about 5 years ago. Both of my kids were quite sad as we have family in Germany.
@RightCoaster I am going to ask about that with the GC. Historically my understanding is that has to be requested much earlier in the year. It would show as an “S” for satisfied. However, while it doesn’t impact the GPA it is pretty obvious to colleges what transpired.
Based on your post, @eandesmom , I reached out to a friend in college admissions here (we’re in Virginia) and he said essentially what you said – 3 years of a language is the minimum requirement, and for competitive admissions, 4 years is better. The other option is to stop at 3 years and do 2 years in another language. Not sure how that would go over in your case. (I know I’d get the steely stare if I even mentioned it to D19.)
@eandesmom you can probably request the exempt status for next year, you won’t get it for this year.
My kids are not interested in the languages for careers, 1 likes biz and the other engineering.
They took 2 years of spanish in 7&8 grade, and will take 3 in high school. That will make 4 years total for them in the eye of admins. I also don’t think my kids will be affected much if they get a B in regular Spanish, and in senior year they take an AP course like Stats or computer/engineering instead of language.
Our GC thought it was a good strategy, so we are going with it.
Regarding language it really depends on how exclusive of schools your kid is aiming for. There are a couple things to consider.
1, What the school requires for admission.
2. What the school really expects for admission (in other words what level won’t raise red flags or make your application less competitive than the norm)
3. What level of language in hs will get you out of college language.
There are actually high schools that allow students to exempt a class? Is this a public school? I’ve never heard of this before.
Since our kids are freshman, it seems the only safe route is to do four/five years of one language. I’ve never really considered anything less. Freshman year is French 2H for our son and he will end in AP French senior year. I always thought four year of all core subjects was the way to go - English, Math, Science, History, and Language. We can still fit school requirements. Econ counts as “consumer ed” and he can take AP Macro or Micro senior year which falls under social studies/history. Our high school’s “elective arts” requirement of four semesters can be covered by one year of language and then one year of something else with many, many options to fulfill that year (art, music, technology, family and consumer science depts). Not sure why anyone would choose to do fewer years of foreign language.
@carolinamom2boys yes public HS in MA. It’s kind of a hack. They mention it in fine print in the student handbook and never mention it in GC meetings. But I learned thru the grapevine that a lot of the kids with super high stats were doing it. Generally, these kids will exempt something like a language, or dance, art etc where you can only earn a 4.0 with an A. An A in a regular class would drop their super high GPA’s down so they exempt them so they can stay in the top 10% of class. It’s really kind of crazy. But, I’ve learned with my son17 that if you want to finish in the top 20% of this school you really need to game the system unless you aren’t some sort of mega genius.
My son17, as an example has all A- grades in mostly Honors level classes and his class rank stinks. It’s amazing. He is probably not too far off, but he will never catch up because other kids are taking more Ap’s and exempting lower graded classes to keep their GPA at an astronomical level.
So, after discovering this “hack” I’m employing the strategy for son19 because he has his eyes set on some tough schools to get into. The counselors don’t like it, as it adds to their workload. But as long as it’s allowed people are going to rig the system.
In some cases, schools don’t offer more than 2 years of a language. Last year, mine didn’t have anything past level 2 for German and Chinese.
Wow. Learn something new every day . Thanks @RightCoaster
My kids high school only offers Spanish , French and Latin. No German, Chinese or anything else as options.
On the comment above that you will be seriously disadvantaged in the top 50 by not having 4 years of a language, I have to respond that my D did get accepted by a top 50 school with only 3 years of French. Its just one data point, but I think saying it is a serious disadvantage is a bit of an exaggeration… Maybe you really need it for the top 10 or 20.
@RightCoaster We have the same sort of thing here in competitive Chicago suburban high school. Some kids don’t ever want to take a non-honors course so they take any other requirements pass/fail during the summer. Some kids even take gym “zero” period at 7:00 am so they can fit in more AP courses during the day. GCs absolutely hate that but they apparently let kids do it. We would never!
^^^
It’s quite absurd. I never knew much or paid much attention to it as my son was never on the super advanced track as a freshman. I didn’t even know there was a super advanced track, lol. I have a friend whose daughter is a NMF winner and he clued me into all of this nonsense. I guess it is pretty cut throat at the top! I’m fine with having my kids have a little more balance now with less stress.
Son19 wants to study engineering and has his eyes on a few schools already, and he’d need to finish in top part of class to have any chance I guess, according to our Naviance data. So, we have to play the game with him and try to help him out as best we can. Getting the good grades and tests is up to him though.
Personally I find looking at the CDSs for schools that you are interested in is way more accurate and helpful than Naviance data. It is data available directly by the school. I don’t understand the importance of how many children from one’s school is of great importance. These students are competing with students from all over the country and world , not just classmates. My oldest son applied to and was accepted at all 5 schools( including some very competitive honors programs) and I never once looked on Naviance. Just my 2 cents . And he only had 3 years of HS language.
Colleges require you to take a foreign language now? That’s a big change from when I went to college.
DD19 has now taken 3 years of Spanish (2 in middle school that don’t count) and can’t speak a lick of it. (Her pronunciation and accent are terrible). But she does well on the written tests. Her high school only requires 2 years and that’s what she’s planning to take. Guess we’ll take a look at her potential colleges to see if any requires 3 or 4 years.
EDIT: Just checked the three local schools she’ll probably look at, and they all require only 2 years of foreign language. (RIce, UTAustin, and Texas A&M).
@homerdog for kids that do music, 4 years of language in HS plus the PE requirements eliminates the ability to do any kind of additional science, math, or other AP class that the student may want, all electives are completely filled up with core classes and the language and music count as their “elective slots”. So, for many kids at our school that does not encourage them to want to take more than 4 years top and most stop at 3. Then again we are at a large public HS that while it does well, is certainly not a highly competitive private where kids are expected or shooting for ivies.
Personally I truly truly question what value 4 years of a language gives one in most career paths, or in college for that matter. My restaurant spanish has served me quite well and my aerospace engineer husband uses even less than that. But that is my opinion on life value, versus perceived value from an admissions standpoint.
There are so few kids who take the level 4 classes it is often either combined with AP (as it is this year, some kids are in F4 some in AP French in the same class and that is what will likely be available next year) or is only available at one of the two HS in our district. So, while it may be the norm in parts of the country and for certain colleges, especially east coast and UC’s…I don’t know that it is truly a blanket statement that 4 or 5 is really needed.
That said, the 3 year gap is an issue. S is currently enrolled in French 4 and had been planning to take AP French though H thinks that is ridiculous.
I am grateful actually that we do not rank, or weight. It just our kids to some degree in the scholarship game for EC schools but as it becomes more and more common, less of an issue.
@RightCoaster I could live with a B. I don’t like it, he is capable of better but I could live with it. Below that is a huge issue.
@carolinamom2boys in our case it would not be “exempt” it would show as an “S” for having passed it but no letter grade. I do not believe it would be an option in this case but have not heard back from the GC or the French Teacher yet.
@mom23travelers it is unlikely we can afford any in the top 50 anyway without significant merit, outside of our own flagship which has dropped just out of it recently. My experience is that 3 years will be fine for our flagship, for his current desired major, though 4 would certainly be better. I expect he will be playing in the 50-100 land to have the best chance of merit aid and that will depend on a lot of factors, most of which are definitely unknown at this point in the game. There are certainly 2 on his list in the top 20 but in his current scenario it is hard to imagine them as even the remotest of possibilities.
@OrangeFish if there were more language options, he might be totally up for that but we are limited to French, Spanish, Chinese and Mandarin with the Mandarin being pretty new to the district. He is not the one expressing concern about French 4, I am purely for GPA reasons.
At any rate he has zero interest in the other language. If Latin or German were an option, he would do those.
Regarding years of foreign language, there are many, many reasons for speaking more than one language. Being fluent in another language tends to make you a better student of the English language. Also, if you want to study abroad and use the language, you’ll need to be at least proficient before you get to college. I just think it’s important in the global society to speak another language and it’s good for the brain! Certainly, if target colleges require you to take a foreign language on their campus or pass a proficiency test, it’s important to take that language up until senior year. I would think passing a proficiency test after high school would be difficult if you finished your last language class junior year.
D16 took 3 years of French in high school and had absolutely no problems with college acceptances.
Our reasoning was if a college required 2 years of a subject, D16 took a minimum of 3, and so on.
I expect S19 to take at least 3 years of Spanish.
Obviously, it’s a personal decision regarding years of a foreign language . My son also has difficulty with acceptances even to a program with a heavy study abroad focus.
@homerdog that is inaccurate. We have a child who studied abroad without being proficient, and he did just fine. Study abroad is not limited to a country where you speak the language, it may just be significantly easier. I know many kids (or relatives) that have studied abroad in locations they were not proficient in. We can agree to disagree here. For a business major, international studies, FL major and others it may be very very valuable. For many stem majors it seems ridiculous to me to give up an AP stem class so that you can take a 5th or 6th year of a language. It would be physically impossible for my S19 to take French through his senior year, it is not offered beyond AP which would be his junior year if he did take it.
Colleges that I have seen that ask for a proficiency test will also accept a 4 or better on the AP test as an alternative.
There are many things that are good for the brain. Certainly languages are one of them. Music is as well. I would prefer to see my child stick with music all 4 years versus giving that up for an extra language, or even an additional stem class. If the goal is to avoid taking a language in college, then yes, perhaps 4+Ap makes sense but I don’t think that taking 3-4 in HS and then taking more in college, and perpahs a language you would have loved to take in HS but wasn’t offered, is the “wrong” path either if it allows for greater exploration in core classes of interest.
It just depends on the goals of the child and one cannot always know what those are yet. S19 is not suggesting he not take the 4th, it is I questioning the wisdom under the current scenario. Which is better? Take more to fulfill a mythical requirement for a school list you don’t have yet? Or risk a GPA that wouldn’t get you into those schools anyway? Lose lose proposition at the moment. Or the list of schools changes regardless of which path you choose.