There is, I will note, some evidence that taking high (and possibly even moderate, but not low) quality foreign language instruction assists in other learning tasks—so there’s that.
Well, I figure there are enough classes my kids have to take, and they they do extremely well in and work hard at, that I’m going to pick and choose my battles as far as classes that go beyond required and especially recommended. I’m doubtful my d19 will end up at a highly selective college as they seem to want leadership positions that she just isn’t as all interested in. It’s early on that front, I suppose, but so far it’s not her thing at all. She tried continuing music (band) this year and didn’t really enjoy it. She already has one more art credit than needed (thanks to the design and drawing for production/tech class that she LOVES) and is interested in other electives so she will be done with music. as I said earlier in the thread, she will be taking Spanish 3 next year. Beyond that, we will see. I will encourage- but not push- Spanish 4 as it’s also a dual enrollment class and I think having that credit could be a potential benefit worth the hassle (for her). Our school also has AP Spanish that seems to be tougher than the DE class since it seems to be the track for the honors Spanish kids, but I think that will be more frustrating and stressful and not worth it for her. If the language was taught differently, maybe I would feel differently and encourage a different option. I’m frustrated that learning a new language seems to just be about memorizing lists and lists of vocabulary and spelling. It sucks the enjoyment completely out of it IMO. Maybe it’s better for kids who prefer memorization to critical thinking.
If ending music in 9th or potential foreign language after Spanish 3 keeps her from certain colleges, then that’s ok because those aren’t the colleges for her. I think it’s fine for a person to stretch themselves a bit and challenge themselves, keeping doors and choices open, but if the person is twisting themselves into a pretzel to be the kind of student they are really not just for a chance at a prestigious prize of a school, then they are not making a good choice IMO. I wouldn’t want my girls to change who they are to impress a friend or a boy so I am not going to encourage it for a college. That would be a recipe for disaster, a poor fit, and ultimately I don’t think they would be happy.
To put the burden of achieving entry into Harvard, and ascribing to those standards as their required course of action, as freshmen to me quite frankly is something the child should drive, not the parent. The vast majority of children have no interest in that level of college and for many of them it has less to do with ability and more to do with simple economics, fit, desire for competition and prestige. Ability is a factor but it is a lot more than that. It is not a path I want for my child unless he drives it, nor is it one I can afford so I am grateful he has made it abundantly clear that his interests lie elsewhere.
I am not interested in asking my 15 year old to target schools that have under 10% admission rates as the standard by which to conduct his high school rigor. I want the right classes, for him, that will get him where he needs to go. At 15 he does not know. I do not know. We will choose a path that gives him options. Doing well in those, choosing what he has interest and passion for, versus checking a box on a list, will make him not only a better student, but a more interesting one and I have zero concerns that the right college is out there for him.
I see the Ivies, and their like, much like I see the recruited athlete process. It needs to be child driven, not parent, or it will not succeed. As with the recent “open letter to the athlete we must stop recruiting”, choosing a certain path for your child and forcing a prescribed list on them, versus working with them to help them create their own, well…colleges (and employers) can see through that. I am completely content opting out of that game.
People get very hung up on that game. And yet at the end of the day while it may open some initial doors, it is what you do with your career that matters. I’ve worked alongside ivy grads making the same amount of money I do, and doing similar work with my just over top 50 flagship degree. My husband works next to multiple ivy and highly selective grads with his “lesser thought of” state school undergrad and grad school degrees. I would rather hire, and do, employees/engineers/scientists that went to schools either strong in their particular field or because they chose the full ride path at a “lesser” school, or that worked any kind of job during school as that says more more me about that person, than the name of the college on the diploma. Some of my most difficult (high maintenance) co workers come from the “name” schools, and it is an interesting correlation to those that went “name” for both undergrad and grad school versus those that went to the name for grad only, coming out of a flagship or a directional that was strong in their program first. I would rather have an entry level engineer that has some real world work experience beyond any REU or thesis. I find the latter to, on the whole, be a better employee, team member and collaborator and just a more well rounded person. Intellectual arrogance is very unattractive.
Do what is right for you, and your child. It does not need to be the same for all.
YMMV
@mom2twogirls I think you’ve got the right attitude. At this point I believe we should just be encouraging our children to follow their interests and helping them explore them. We can make suggestions about new interests but we shouldn’t be pushing them into more than they want or are interested in. When junior year rolls around, then step back and look at the kid you have and figure out where they could be going to college.
As far as class selection goes, I just assumed they would be taking 4 years of English, math, science, and social studies and three years of language. Then let them fill in with what they find interesting. They should take the level that they feel is challenging but not overwhelming. I have let my kids make the call on regular vs honors vs APs. If they are eligible for AP’s and want to take them great, if not, then that’s OK too.
If your kid is really the type of kid that will be going to ivies or other selective colleges, then they will shine no matter what you do and they will drive towards that with no urging from parents. And if they are not destined for that, then no amount of parental molding will get them there. No parents should be thinking about targeting ivies right now.
@eandesmom Our son has already mentioned that he’s not interested in a super stressful college situation. His cut throat high school is enough for him. That being said, he’s a strong student. Some colleges (even some elite ones) like to say that their atmosphere is more collaborative and less about kids competing against each other. I’m hoping he will find a school that is engaging but not necessarily stressful.
And I totally agree about the Ivy “name”. I have friends who are partners in law firms and many of them say they would rather hire a hard worker with stellar grades from a state school than a student from the Ivies. Yikes.
@eandesmom “dos cerveza por favor”
That reminds me of a big brouhaha at DD19s middle school. The Spanish teacher got sick and had to leave the school. They had no one left to teach Spanish. So someone had the bright idea of buying an online course and having the kids learn from that.
It went well for a couple of weeks. Then they had the restaurant lesson. Among the phrases they had to learn was “una cerveza por favor.” Parents got livid. They went to the PTA meeting and demanded that this course be stopped because it was teaching kids bad things. They ended up winning and the kids got “free study” time instead of Spanish the rest of the year.
I was later talking to one of the people who led the fight. Her argument was that the kids can now go to a Mexican restaurant and order a beer in Spanish. I replied, “you do realize that they know how to order a beer in English, right?”
@homerdog the worst boss I ever had was a Princeton grad. Very cerebral, the common sense of a flea and quite prone to throwing people under the bus for self preservation. Lovely man outside of the workplace but UGH.
@gusmahler that is hysterical!!! I love your response!!! Almost surprised that one of the arguments wasn’t that learning how to order beer was a trigger warning for a child of an alcoholic or heaven knows what.
@gusmahler that’s a great “cerveza” story. Years ago before moving to a new country we did a long road trip and used the time to do an audio language course that in retrospect was clearly targeted at the business or casual traveler. After ten hours of “two beers, please” and “My name is _____, I am American. What is your name?” my 5th grade daughter piped up, “I feel like all I’ve learned is how to order drinks and pick up women.”
Reminds me of a great old radio show (The Goon Show) when a character comes in, fluent in French, rattles off a few sentences, and the hero, intending to impress, says “I see. The pen of your aunt is in the garden, eh?”
Hi everyone! Bumped on this forum a couple of days back. I have DD19. Summer vacations are right around the corner for us 
Since we’re talking about language learning, there’s [this delightful sketch/url from the British comedy series Armstrong & Miller, which has a companion piece [url=“<a href=“https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GYPf0JFl1M%22%5Dthat”>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GYPf0JFl1M”]that throws German into the mix](Armstrong and Miller French - YouTube).
Hello all. Checking in after lurking lately. My DD19 had her last day of classes and has final exams over the next two weeks. She ended Q3 with a 3.39 at a private HS known for a tough grading scale. They assure me that “all admission people know how they grade” and my daughter won’t be at a disadvantage. We’ll see. This kid fights for every grade (learning differences, challenges with reading fluency, ADD and epilepsy). it would be very disappointing to not have the supposed rigor of the curriculum and grading not evaluated in the admission decisions. Hoping she will end strong this quarter and eke out a 3.45 or 3.5.
So I sometimes feel out of place on this board. We are not on the “Ivy League/Top 25 or bust” track. DD has honors Spanish and will have Honors Spanish 2 and Honors Algebra 2 next year. No APs and won’t even be able to fit in AP Spanish by senior year (she is fluent after many years of immersion, but struggles with grammar and didn’t get placed into Honors 2 or 3 as a freshman) because of Orchestra. She knows she wants a large school (I’m secretly thrilled–I graduated from a large school and loved it!) and she is extremely committed to being a teacher and eventually a therapist. So she has a very tentative list that we are casually exploring (I’m pretending to be casual with her, but I am analyzing admission rates, retention rates, diversity (we are AA), LD support and many other things!).
I’m rambling, but I guess I am asking are there other parents of kids who are not 4.0 with all AP/Honors courses in this group? She should be good for the schools we are targeting, though past history indicates that the SAT/ACT is going to be a real challenge. I feel pretty good about our strategy, but I freak out when I do what I know I shouldn’t–compare us to others. It doesn’t help that I live in the Washington, DC area–we take it to an entirely different level here (and that is not a compliment!).
Thanks for letting me vent…
Actually, relatively few of us in this group fall under that, ourselves. For example, my D19 very clearly doesn’t and won’t have the stats for the top 25, and my D17, who does have those sorts of stats, doesn’t want those sorts of schools (which makes me more than happy).
Or, in other words, I believe you’ll find a pretty welcoming and supportive community here, not matter what the rest of CC may feel like at times.
@DeltaMom2019 While my son will probably have fairly good stats with some APs , we are not targeting superselective schools and will be mostly targeting instate schools . There are all different types here. Welcome.
@DeltaMom2019 yes! We celebrate ALL the kids. I have a mix of kids (4) with differing gpa’s, rigor, test scores, the types of colleges they wanted/attended/are attending and are interested in.
Frankly I don’t get all that hung up on the numbers…as long as it is ranked at all! LOL. I am far more concerned with the fit for the child in question and whether they will 1) thrive there 2) be employable, quickly 3) I can afford it and 4) get in. Or have a chance at getting in.
My S17 fights for his grades and is a miserable test taker. I am hoping he can get up to a 3.5 but in reality if he does, it will be senior year and likely not impact his applications much. Nor is he really likely to do a ton better on the next ACT in a few weeks. That is ok, we will work with what we have. He has options, lots of them.
My S19 has his own issues. He has the potential to do really really well but bites off more than he can chew and can’t manage it all organizationally, will not ask for help or admit he needs it, which has him likely ending the year with the potential for a D on his transcript and a poor second semester overall dropping his gpa by quite a bit. First semester wasn’t quite as bad but not remotely at his potential. But…it’s his potential and he has to learn how to fail and move on. Better for him to learn now then in college. He may be an honors and AP kid (none freshman year, it isn’t allowed) but he bombs the non honors classes. He is likely to test quite well but that will not make up for other things.
At any rate my point is we all have all kinds of kids and while some may have a super high stats kid one year, they may not another year and it doesn’t matter, we celebrate all the kids and want to help them (and their parents) find the right fit.
Lots of options for the 3.3-3.5 student. Even for the 3.0 much as it may feel at times that isn’t the case.
I have hard and truly believe that all colleges look at each students course load and weights it accordingly, based on their own metrics and what they know of the HS. They have to. There are SO many ways different schools have of grading. Weighted or not, % based or not, +/- or not. Are AP and honors offered, or not. Do they count freshman year, or not. It can make your eyes bleed just thinking of it all!
GC’s will communicate the rigor of a childs coursework at application time to the colleges. There is no other way that schools could possibly “level” or attempt to level the playing field.
so WELCOME!
@DeltaMom2019, I am sure there are so many options out there. If you want to learn more about the available options, there are many old threads like :
Talking to the GC in your school might help you as well.
I have seen many students do much better sophomore year onward.
My daughter is fairly high ability but I am doubtful she will end up at a highly selective college and not an Ivy either. For one thing, we are probably needing too much merit and I also don’t think it’s going to fit her personality. She struggles a lot with test anxiety. She is a mess the day of any quiz or test, regardless of howshebis doing in a class. I’m not sure that a highly stressful, high pressure school will be good for her. Additionally, she doesn’t tend to care for exclusivity and prestige in much of anything. She cringes at the idea of popularity (which explains lack of leadership). We will see, a lot will depend on what stays I am seeing junior year, but if I were to guess she will be at one of our state schools and happy in the fall of 2019.
We want our kids to be the best they can be without assuming they have to be the best only because they are AIMING for a specific college. The best students get the scholarships in colleges which dole out merit scholarships.
Or, perhaps to sum up, the “Parents of the HS Class of 20XX” threads are a pleasant refuge of sanity and acceptance.