@AlmostThere2018 S21 is another 2021 STEM kid planning to major in engineering. There are a few more of us here than I realized. Maybe we need 2021 STEM/engineering thread!
I don’t think S21 would consider a gap year. He thrives with a packed routine and when challenged academically. He’s found it hard to stay motivated or engaged with practically anything this summer since everything he’d planned on was canceled. I think finally he’s on the upswing now - he started a new job and he’s more engaged in the college application process. Since he doesn’t have a an older sibling who had an ideal freshman experience to compare to, I think he’d be okay with a first-year on campus experience, even if it meant masks and some online classes. This is my best guess today though. It could easily change as this year unfolds and we watch what happens at the colleges he’s applying to.
Well, one, if a student isn’t taking math senior year and then struggles with math in college, that student is obviously not a STEM student. Those kids don’t take three years of math in high school. I wouldn’t expect them to do well in college math. I would dare say that, any student who doesn’t take math all four years is not a strong student period and not the type of student who would do well with a gap year.
And, so far, S19 hasn’t had to try to get what he learned in high school back. He seems to remember how to do calc even though he’s been away from it for those 15 months. I think a lot of us look at math from a high school perspective where each class stems from the next (except maybe geometry). Kids take algebra 1, and algebra 2, and trig, and pre calc and then the calc series. After that, though, math stems in many different directions. I would say the two math classes that S took freshman year were almost like a different subject than his math series in high school. Does one have to be ready to study again and focus and work hard after taking a long break? Sure. I suppose part of the success would be knowing whether a gap would be motivating or unmotivating for long term success.
I think the key to a successful gap year is finding something super engaging for the student and I think that’s not an easy task. No way I would want D21 doing what she did this summer for a whole year. Since she’s undecided on major, I think we’d ask her to try to find options for exploring a few options during a gap. We would consider having her live in another country in some sort of set program too. She’s been talking about studying abroad for two years already.
Everyone’s situation is different of course! Never ever ever did we see S19 taking a break but he’s making the most of it.
I’m out the door – agree those students w/o 4 math in high school are likely not on a STEM path but they still take math in college, of course. And yes after Calc there’s a lot of branching in math that is not Calc-based. My D18 is taking all those courses too and they are totally different!
But the overall point about math ‘half life’ still holds. Vast majority of STEM students are finishing their Calc sequence in college. There is research that says gap in math on the Algebra/Pre-calc/Calc 1, 2, 3 pathway reduces success too. Calc has highest failure rates at most colleges. I was interviewing math faculty at colleges across the country about this just this week for a policy brief I’m writing!
@AlmostThere2018 S21 is a likely engineering start. He’s really unsure, wants to do something with math, but is looking at places that have applied math in the engineering college, just in case. The unfortunate thing is that the 2 schools where he has legacy and we thought he might ED don’t have applied math. It’s weird, almost every other university he’s looked at has applied math.
Anybody here know much about math? I looked at some applied math majors and they definitely include different classes, including CS classes, and engineering classes (those in the engineering school). Should he forget about schools without applied math?
@TVBingeWatcher2 yes it was the Yale Intro to Psych course on Coursera and she really, really liked it! She will definitely take some psych classes in college. She’s realizing, though, that she doesn’t see herself as a clinical psychologist. Her interest in politics also spiked this summer so that’s something she wants to investigate further too I think. Overall, I think that class was a good course. She seemed to always look forward to it and found it quite interesting!
These are good ideas, thank you! Right now he’s looking at some different career paths in biomedical engineering, chemical engineering, physics (his true love) and we’ll add environmental to the mix. Ideally he’ll find a school where he can be admitted to the school of engineering (or similar) and be able to explore a little before declaring an actual major.
@homerdog I think you mentioned your S19 may ultimately major in math and physics? What led him to this; does he know what he ultimately wants to do for a career?
S told me he forgot some of what he learned in precalc last yr. Every Math teacher always talks about how much knowledge the kids loose over the summer, so it makes sense they would loose even more during a gap.
Ugh to wrap my head around a Fall 2021 that looks this tough is difficult. My heart really goes out to those 2020 kids who are getting last minute cancelations or sent back home. I know 100% no gap year for S. The Covid situation will have a huge impact on his choice of college unfortunately.
No way that we will spend $70k at a private school if there is no end to online in sight. Our family is full pay but way too practical. The social piece has a lot of value to us. I don’t think he would get enough merit at the privates on our list to make that attractive either unless they made some big changes. There is a free city college path in California and we have one of the best here in our city, but he would be more likely to go UC and then perhaps transfer later. Possibly one of the out of state publics with a discount. Let’s just hope that doesn’t happen. OMG. :neutral:
I’m glad some of you caught that Grown and Flown show. It was so relevant to our past discussions. I’ve preordered Jeff Selingo’s book out in September. I noted that he said there is a pretty high correlation between GPA and test scores and that he expects colleges to make some assumptions based on that. I’m counting on this as S goes TO most places if his October in school test doesn’t happen.
I’ve put in a question on the College Confidential FB page about colleges accepting late scores for EA. I find the policies very confusing about this. S is getting a bit college app weary and overtired. When he starts school in two weeks, we will switch out to Sunday only college meetings. He really, really needs finish a solid draft of his personal statement this week.
@flyawayx2 Kids who like STEM and are uncertain about engineering are some of the most difficult cases when looking for a college! It’s so hard to know whether to give engineering a chance as a freshman or to forgo it and start as a physics major. For S19, he was strong in all subjects and really had not ruled out any major before he left for school. He would not consider engineering because he really wanted the full experience of taking history, English, etc. and engineering programs are very focused on math and science. He was completely open to any and all careers. Could see himself as some sort of writer as easily as he could see himself doing something with science or being an analyst. The other thing that kept him from engineering was that he really disliked AP Comp Sci and had no interest in revisiting the subject.
My H and I kind of thought he should at least keep math and/or physics on the table since he liked those subjects. He started with the math and physics classes that would be the right classes if he were to major in either one. Continued on in both for second semester. Enjoyed both and also enjoyed his other non-stem classes.
With Covid and him taking this break, we charged him this summer with taking time to think about his pie in the sky career. If he could do anything, what would that be? He’s always been interested in space and astronomy and joked that he would be an astronaut or, at the very least, work somehow in that industry. Found an in-person internship for fall with a start up aerospace company. Kind of hit the jackpot but it took a lot of research and work to find this opportunity. We will see how it goes. If he likes it, great. If not, then it’s on to thinking about other options - maybe looking into analyst type jobs in business or really anything else. If he decides he really likes the work he’s doing, he will major in physics as well as math. If not, I think it’s possible he would drop physics and do a math major and maybe double in something less STEM. If he’s really into this industry, I think he will eventually need a masters in engineering.
As for applied math, I would look on each school’s website and see what kind of jobs those kids get. Many times you can look at the math page of the college’s website and you’ll see listed the jobs kids get.
@inthegarden your comment is so interesting. My son likes programming and is very strong in natural science. He has a creative streak and is kind - we can also see him teaching. I’m not sure how any of that fits together but we hope that he will figure it out in college. GC says his application is really stronger for bio, but we are ok with him applying CS and giving that a go. We’ll see what options he has after the admissions letters come.
Pre-Covid I looked into structured gap-year- abroad programs just out of curiosity. I don’t think my D would have chosen to do this, but if she had, I would have supported it. Pre-Covid there were also options for post-high school students to go for just a semester. The best (IMO) involved a home stay for the duration and taking classes…some of them at high schools to avoid having to deal with university transcripts (offered just to students who had recently graduated from high school). Lots of high schools abroad offer more advanced math classes than we tend to have in the US so something like that would keep a STEM student in-shape for a year while learning a language, immersing oneself in another culture, facing challenges different from any faced before and just having a lot of fun as well.
I went on two such programs for shorter periods (6 and 8 weeks) in summers as a teen. I learned so much and it changed my world. More recently I volunteered for our local hosting chapter of AFS for around ten years. I think these programs are really important. I would be afraid for my D to do it without the pandemic being entirely over, even if Covid rates are lower wherever she would be going, because of potential flare-ups.
Our 8/29 SAT test was canceled here. Again. We already have an October and November test scheduled, but I went ahead and found a seat for the 9/26 test. It’s a couple hours away, so I’ll try to switch locations to a closer test center in the coming weeks.
My S’17 is a Math and CS major at UIUC and says his math classes are both applied and theoretical? The strictly applied math major though (not the Math and CS major) is in the Liberal Arts and Sciences though, not engineering. I think I would encourage him to apply to the harder program to get into (engineering or applied math) and then switch out if he changes his mind. At UIUC, it is much more difficult to get into engineering than applied math in LAS. Anyways, I don’t know if that helped at all, but if you have any UIUC math or CS specific questions, I can pass them along. Tell him to remember that there is a lot of math in just about all engineering majors!