I don’t know why UT Austin would list the score that way. Maybe there is someone on a UT Austin thread that could help with more info about that? Is UT Austin test optional this year, btw?
@ChillyCow good luck to your son with UT. I keep nagging S to submit his app!
@JanieWalker You and your D are the Gods of the college process, if ever there was such a thing. I wish you both continued incredible success!
@smiles2122 You’d know if the intensity would be too much for your D; I wouldn’t second-guess it. For reference, one iteration of my D’s CA essay is about being an anxious introvert who wants to change the world. For her, a bit less intensity is a necessity. I was just wondering what Smith was like, bc we got the impression it wasn’t quite as high pressure as Wellesley or Bryn Mawr. D wants a collaborative, close knit environment, with very smart people, but not a pressure cooker. But, also politically active (which Scripps-the one LAC we saw, wasn’t, though the women’s empowerment resonated with her). In contrast, her twin brother thrives on competition. Wellesley would be great for him, but for the whole gender thing.?
@havenoidea , you are kind, but D21 has not yet been accepted anywhere. We’ll see how it goes.
@havenoidea I’d love to hear more (from you and others!) about this aspect of the women’s colleges you’ve mentioned. I’ve also heard that Wellesley is intense (not D’s vibe at all), and we thought Smith was similar, with BMC slightly less so? Bryn Mawr is high on D’s list, though if it’s a very intense/competitive environment, that wouldn’t be a great fit.
@kbm770 Given that I don’t know any students at any of them, I really shouldn’t characterize them. I got these impressions from the descriptions in the Hidden Ivys book, Unigo, and the studentreviews website. I’m sure it would be better to speak with some students. I know some schools will put you in touch with students, so maybe that would help, and posting on the threads of the schools themselves.
Most likely, they’re all somewhat similar (with Wellesley being the most intense), since you have very smart, driven women who are choosing to attend a top women’s college. In that respect, they’re all serious students to start with.
When my D18 was looking at women’s colleges she felt like Wellesley and Smith were the most intense. It seemed like Wellesely was academically intense while Smith was kinda SJW intense. She didn’t visit either – but I had visited Smith back in the day so had sense of it. Really pretty campus!
Loved Barnard and Scripps, partly b/c they had guys around, lol. Particularly liked Barnard in terms of the academics and NYC. She was energized by Barnard and got the impression it was very ‘go go.’ She hung out one afternoon with a group of students (one of whom was daughter of a friend of a friend). They were all pretty driven and seemed to ‘have a plan’ according to my D.
She loved the Scripps campus but decided it was too humanities focused for her interests, and the 5cs were cool but a lot of transaction costs so she went a different direction. She noticed that Scripps students were very put together and kinda chic in terms of how they dressed. That stressed her out a little, but was not the reason she didn’t choose it. Man that campus and weather though; we had the BEST visit there together.
Liked Mt Holyoke on paper and she had a friend who loved it but never visited. Bryn Mawr for some reason never made it on her short list – possibly b/c it’s smaller than she wanted but I honestly don’t remember.
Hope this helps!
Thanks, @AlmostThere2018! We visited Pomona when we were in LA over spring break last year, and she loved the campus and the consortium. (This was early in our search, and before she’d even considered a women’s college.) Eventually she realized that SoCal was too far (we’re in Chicago and all of our extended family is on the East Coast). Worst of all, if you can believe it, she said it was just too sunny! ?
@kbm770 – Yeah, we walked around all the campuses which was fun, but she only applied to Scripps b/c she was chasing merit and they’re the only 5c (if I’m remembering correctly) that gives merit $$. At the risk of bragging, they ended up offering her their largest merit scholarship which she was thrilled about. We really thought she was packing her bags for sunny SoCal but then she changed her mind. Great school, but It was the right decision for her based on her academic interests.
Congrats to all who actually have apps in! None so far for S21, although his main essay is done. He is only applying to four schools and doesn’t seem to feel much urgency about getting them in but I do want them in by the EA deadlines!
We toured Bryn Mawr with both D19 and D21. Our tour guides and the students at the info sessions were all friendly and genuine. They were impressive, but not in an intimidating way—just organized, articulate and smart. With D19, we went in February and there was a rare stretch of warm, sunny weather. The students were all out on the lawns, lounging in groups, reading, chatting, laughing. I was charmed! We also got a real sense of the upperclassman taking the freshman under their wings and passing down the traditions (they don’t have freshman dorms). The food was the best of any college we’ve been to, fresh, healthy, delicious vegetarian options. Also liked the proximity to Philly and NYC.
Our high school is a pressure cooker, so both D’s were looking for college to feel more collaborative—not like a zero-sum game. The Bryn Mawr women they met were clearly challenging themselves academically, but it felt much more like we’re all in this together and support is readily available.
Hope that helps! It is really frustrating that we can’t do (most) visits. I know Bryn Mawr and Wellesley are completed closed to visitors right now.
@socaldad2002 I think we’ve considered all these factors.
We’ve heard the sentiment about terminal degree importance from probably 30+ individuals in academia. The guy I quoted was the most extreme. Sorry if my choice to quote him riled anyone up. Is it just the quote or do people really disagree with this concept?
I said: “We’ve been told many times that where he gets his terminal degree will be much more important than where he gets his undergrad.”
Good points. We’ve already considered all 3 of your prongs.
Pretty clear that UT would be the best fit financially. I’d love to be in the position where the extra $100+k for his 2nd tier choices is not a big deal, but it is. We’d do it if there were enough compelling reasons, but there’s not.
Agree that quality of academics is important and of course it matters where you goto HS. But I think the more important question is “Can you only thrive if you goto this certain school?” Of course not.
We’re thankful for his top 50 HS. It’s really good, but not perfect. However, the research based Vandy program was hands down the best part of his 4 yr HS career. He loved it and he excelled. It was 25 peers and 4 teachers who really got the best out of him. As long as he had the research program, he would have thrived at any of several of the other HS’s in our area.
I’ll equate that to UT which is a Top 100, R1 Univ. Really good, not perfect. We know he can get a solid foundation in the hard sciences at UT. So that’s kinda like his HS: strong foundation but maybe not the most important part of his next few years. If he can get a great research opportunity while in Knoxville, he can absolutely thrive.
Maybe he’ll find some great opportunities on campus. If not, ORNL is right next door.
Just like the Vandy program was the best part of HS for him, the opportunity to do research with DOE scientists & their toys at Oak Ridge is the game changer for undergrad.
btw, we get a kick out of other schools (including GT) bragging about their close relationship with ORNL. No school has as close a relationship as UT. Plus he has a personal relationship already at ORNL.
You may not believe this but the answer is yes. In fact, he’s already found peers (and faculty/staff) at UT who will challenge him and bring out the best in him.
On 1 trip, he got to hang out in the Physics students lounge for an hour. S21 quickly bonded with a handful who are of similar academic talent/passion. On another trip, we had a chance encounter with a 2nd yr chem student which turned into a 90 minute lunch & chat. He’s pretty much the same awesome, crazy-smart kid as my S21 in many ways & they both saw that. He offered to point S21 to all things that he wished someone had told him. They’ve stayed in touch, texting occasionally over the past few months. I have no doubt that S21 will find more of his people once he finally gets there.
How many peers does he need to help bring out the best in him? He only needed 25 at Vandy. If he’s top 1% @ UT, that’s ~280 like minded classmates. Is that enough? Would 500, 1000 or 4000 like minded classmates be better? Maybe, maybe not.
The big/small fish concept has come up many times over the years. There’s pros/cons for both sides of the argument. He & we are pretty comfortable with how the academic opportunities at UT will work out.
Socially, he will do well at any of these schools. He’s not a party kid but he’s very outgoing. Wherever he goes, he’ll make close friends and have a large peer network.
UT is the clear winner with other social aspects. He’s very comfortable with the campus and the culture. He prefers the weather in Knoxville and the hiking/camping opportunities are a perfect fit for him.
There’s family & friends in the area. We all see that as a real advantage vs being 300-1000 miles away.
If he had a nickel for every time he heard that students change their minds, he could afford any school 
The people who have known him for more than a minute think he’ll be the exception to the rule. Let’s just say that it’s highly unlikely that he will change his plan.
Your comments prior to this were truly appreciated. I stopped to reconsider and reconfirm why this is the best choice.
But your final comment really confounded me.
You think we don’t realize this is a complicated decision & that we want “any old college diploma” for our son?
Wow.
@seoace based on you thorough analysis above it sounds like you have your answer that UT is the way to go. That said what about applying to Vandy and the big scholarship they give. If forget the name of it but it sounds like your son would have a good chance for that. If he doesn’t get it then off to UT. If he does then you all will have another great option.
@AlmostThere2018 so where did you D18 end up going…You may have posted in the past but I don’t remember.
60 days until ED…
I keep telling my D to look hard at an ED choice that she would be happy to attend because I think there will be a big bump this year, but she’s not cooperating!
@havenoidea I think that @AlmostThere2018 nailed it in their rundown of women’s colleges. I also think that an anxious introvert SJW might find a smart but less stressed student body at Mount Holyoke, if she’s amenable to a small town, bucolic setting. If she wants urban, then maybe take a look at Barnard.
For co-ed smart, lefty LACs that might appeal, in order of academic intensity from lesser to greater, I’d say Oberlin, Vassar, Wesleyan, Reed.
@burghdad. There are a number of generous merit scholarships at Vanderbilt: Cornelius Vanderbilt, Ingram, and maybe one other. I agree with your advice to @seoace
@burghdad – Davidson!
Thx @burghdad
S21 has loved the VU program. Surprisingly, Vanderbilt would be #5 on his college list IF he got a full ride. It’s well behind UT even if we only get worst case merit $ from UT.
So we see no reason to apply for Ingram Scholars or Cornelius Vanderbilt Scholars scholarships.
He’s been on campus 1 day a week since Freshman year and several weeks each summer. He’s very comfortable there and the proximity to home is a positive to him. But he once commented that Vandy is more like a place he goes to work than a place to get his college education/experience.
We did our due diligence there but:
- he wasn’t impressed with a regular class that he sat in on (vs he pretty much loved every class he sat in on at other schools)
- while there are some amazing ppl @ VU, we had our only horrible 1-on-1 with a professor there
- S21: “I want to change the world with nanotech!”
- Prof: “That’s science fiction & we’re not going to talk about that. Let’s talk about nano applications in cosmetics.”
- Seriously, he crushed my 15yr old’s enthusiasm.
- He believes that his current internship is in the “best” lab on campus for him. While it is super great for his Sr HS yr, he thinks that it is not close enough to what he wants to do in the future.
I agree. All of the LACs mentioned, with the exception of Reed, are known for their performing arts departments. It’s almost impossible to exaggerate the importance of having classmates for whom mental and physical wellness go hand-in-hand with their chosen majors along with the usual mix of future masters of the universe.
@AlwaysMoving we also had an ED moment last night. My D was about to register for an interview and the page asked her to confirm that she was selecting ED for her app. A potentially lifelong decision right then and there! Felt big. It got her focused on what more she needs to research before she knows or does she know already but it just feels big.
@havenoidea so insightful, thank you. You helped me realize that my D is seeking that intensity because she sometimes feels out on a limb with her peers when she is really into something academic or political - she wants more peers like her. I have heard Smith described as exactly what your D may want so hopefully you can find a way to get more of a sense in this virtual world. We have found the webinars specifically with student panels to be very helpful, if Smith has any of those. LOL on your son - my son is coveting the women’s colleges because he sees how for their strong academics they can be a little easier to get into than the other SLACs due to smaller app base.
@kbm770 Definitely check out Smith because they do seem to pride themselves on being less intense with just as smart students. On the intensity of W and BM, there may be some history there with the grade deflation but now it may be that the intensity and competition is more about how they are going out and changing the world (internships, etc) rather than on a specific test grade. Of course, that unto itself can create pressure, too! One way my D uncovered that she might resonate with the environment at Wellesley was based on how excited she got reading about these 2 conferences: https://w100.wellesley.edu/campus-wide-brain-parties.
@3SailAway so helpful, thank you. And you are reminding what I have heard that many of the women tend to be more internally competitive than anything. It does seem like for all 3 of these schools we are discussing, the women care about academics and work hard. And, like anywhere, individual experiences may depend a lot on the specific peers in their classes and friends they choose.
Also, FYI, from my D’s experience of attending a 5 Sisters presentation years ago and one more recent virtually, they don’t distinguish between the schools at those sessions. So, these boards, the reviews, etc will hopefully help us all. And this overall list for Wellesley helped my D confirm her interest, there may be something similar for the others. https://w100.wellesley.edu/.
"Your comments prior to this were truly appreciated. I stopped to reconsider and reconfirm why this is the best choice.
But your final comment really confounded me.
You think we don’t realize this is a complicated decision & that we want “any old college diploma” for our son?"
Thanks for the detailed response and it sounds like you and your son have given his decision on what college to attend a lot of thought.
My last point that you quoted above was really directed to the broader CC audience who frequently state that if you are going to graduate school, your undergraduate education doesn’t matter. Many are just looking for a degree at the cheapest cost available (e.g. chasing the highest merit) but they have not really considered best fit. It doesn’t sound like that is your family, so kudos to you.