Not sure if this school was on your list but McDaniel College in MD has a full tuition scholarship.
Thanks. Yeah weāll plea with Hollins. They know she really wants to go there and they do want her. They donāt have that big donation money yet, though. On NPCs Hollins and ASC are very far above other colleges so Iām not expecting much.
No UCs and CSUs are not affordable. I think my daughter will go to U Arizona and the desert she hates so much (for what reason IDK-- she has no idea how badly snow can suck) rather than commute, which is the only affordable option that is not commuting. For my son, itās not clear how to move on, maybe overseas.
We donāt qualify for Berea.
Thereās also still a chance Iāll do some really crazy level of PLUS borrowing, but everything would have to line up perfectly including their willingness to borrow, and itās one thing to think of it theoretically and one thing to do it. Iāve already started a home equity loan process.
For those who may be thinking of the heavy borrowing route, one thing I would have done differently is line up more 4+1 and 3+2 and direct grad/pro admissions type programs where that could make at least a bit more sense. Also tap my kids foreheads with a magic wand that instantly sorts them into a profession.
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No UCs and CSUs are not affordable. I think my daughter will go to U Arizona and the desert she hates so much (for what reason IDK-- she has no idea how badly snow can suck) rather than commute, which is the only affordable option that is not commuting. For my son, itās not clear how to move on, maybe overseas.
Donāt lose hope! Your D might end up liking Tucson. Up until 3 yr ago, we lived in Tucson for about 14 years. Itās a great town. And itās an hourās drive to get to the top of Mt. Lemmon. Most people donāt realize that thereās a small downhill ski area up there. The most miserable month of the year is June weather-wise.
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I was just about to suggest a home equity loan! Itās top on my list of things to do next week - apply for a heloc. Iād rather not borrow against my house, and donāt expect to need to, but itās a good thing to have lined up.
@UCDProf , I bet she might like Arizona more than she initially thinks and if she wants to continue at grad school maybe she can go somewhere cool and green for that.
Yāall could look at WCU, but I think it might be a bit of a culture shock for kids from CA. Take a look at some YouTube videos and see what you think.
Hollins and ASC both draw kids from all over, so less culture shock there, especially at ASC. Hollins is still a bit rural. Roanoke is not that big and Hollins is kind of on the outskirts, but the students are from all over.
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Please head to the thread about Parent Plus loans and just how bad of a proposition it is to get into this situation. No undergraduate degree from any college is worth taking this risk.
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I agree with @murray93 that the Knox thread should be taken with a grain of salt, especially as it is from 2012. It must have reappeared when it was recently closed by a moderator.
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I literally said in my post that it can be taken with a grain of salt.
Weāre all for Knox here, but mindful of the social prominence of frats and stripped down situation, for lack of a better word, and despite a completely other controversy there that was quite serious that I wonāt go into.
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Yes Iāve been to that PLUS thread, and even allowed myself to be jostled around there.
Itās easy to say donāt do it (borrow, in general) when you have other options. I canāt discuss here why staying at home is not an option for my son and why I would borrow extra (two years room, board and travel) to prevent that.
I also get the exaggerated point of view that expensive college is a scam (it both is and isnāt but I get the āisā side, totally) and how so many have been victimized by this system. I really do.
Iām always trying to scare myself straight, actually, but I keep coming back to go-away college.
A lot of people assume the choice is between ānot-expensive college where you donāt borrowā and borrowing to go to an expensive college, but that is a choice only for some people. Itās hard for people to imagine another scenario than borrowing to chase some romanticized dream of a college experience or prestigious degree or whatever.
For others, itās borrow or donāt go, or borrow or donāt go away to college.
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Not that I recommend this, but I pulled the trigger now on borrowing against equity because rates are rising every day.
But please nobody do what Iām doing without reason. I have my reasons.
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The McDaniel scholarship requires a trip out to MD to be one of 20 contestants. The odds donāt seem good for a $1,000 bet from California.
If my kids were not interested in science, McDaniel Budapest would be a fantastic affordable option for them. So many options like that in Europe for the humanities/economics types!
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I think WCU looks pretty good. Itās kind of iffy at $22k plus travel, so not better than Arizona and not a discount off an LAC (for us). It looks really good for someone who doesnāt get as much aid as we do.
It is lined up in my sonās common app though.
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I donāt think anyone can second guess you @UCDProf, youāve certainly put yourself through the wringer of public opinion around here. No one can say you havenāt been thorough in your thought process! I do very much hope everything works out for your kids in the end.
As you know, Knox is one of my Dās top 3, and I had seen that thread long ago. It slots right in with a prior conversation we all had here about about taking such online commentary (good and bad), with as you said, a grain of salt. 
My takeaway from such things is that, yes, small LACs are inherently a risk/reward proposition from a social perspective. Because they are so small, they are either a fit or really not a fit and that is very hard to tell until you matriculate because much depends on your class. Key factors for success will be a number of clubs/activities the student is interested in, so if one doesnāt fit another might, and joining in right away.
@murray93 I was curious about this student too and I poked around and discovered he did indeed transfer. He completed his first year, actually made some friends and started doing better, but never got over his issues. He transferred to Goucher which he seemed to like better for itās location closer to a city. He graduated in 2016 and went on to graduate school.
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Wow, great research! Interesting that he did end up transferring.
@UCDProf I bet you could take on a side gig of college consulting at this point. Your kids are so lucky to have such a caring and knowledgable parent.
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Iām not against borrowing within reason at all, but I do believe that Parent Plus should be avoided if possible. I see that youāve decided to go the equity route and I agree thatās a way better way to go. We have a line ready to deploy if needed, too.
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Iām sitting in the Roanoke airport (cutest little airport in America) right now and there are ads for Mary Baldwin and Hollins all over the place. Reminded me of the families here whoāve mentioned those schools.
Wishing you all the best over the next few months as decisions come in and decisions are made.
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I love that little airport tooā¦ most especially bc it gets me to my kiddo or her home to us!
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Iām doing a combination of equity and plus loans, but not to the ends of the earth.
Weāve got to keep total cost to around 20k each for two, for the amount of debt to not be crippling. So weāre inching closer to that (son at 22k and daughter at almost 20k, but Arizona where she doesnāt want to go).
Hollins finally came in with FA: the basic 26k all in that most LACs give us when they are not serious or donāt have the cash. We also get a few outlier 30k āyeah right, thatās really bad yield strategyā ones. The going rate is 22k-24k including indirect costs and before loans.
I may start the insane borrowing at 22k on the outside, but that would be with reluctance and Iāll have to draw the line there. Thatās the limit just to think about it, not necessarily go through with it.
Out last minute ED2 decision for Smith will come in 4 days.
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Good luck to your daughter this week.
Here are a few things to consider as you help them with decision making -
Are any of the colleges on the short lists at this point near family or friends? Even a couple of hours or a short train ride away can help when they need a break from campus but can not get all the way home to California. One evaluation criteria for D21 on her spreadsheet was distance from someone who we knew would bring her soup if she was sick. It was really more abstract than it sounds since most of her options had a Panera and Door Dash ready to serve - which she has used. But in reality last semester that person did need to go up at some point to check on her when I could not get a flight quick enough and invited her to come visit one weekend earlier in the semester.
As you look at indirect costs definitely look at what those may be for your kids specifically as you further narrow the decision making. Flights, storing items in the summer, hotels or Airbnb when you bring them and visit, rental cars, etcā¦ it all adds up way beyond the listed average indirect costs. And they may vary widely enough to make a $5000 difference over a year. A three day weekend to visit to fly, rent a car, meals, hotel for two nights, and Target runs for whatever else they need honestly averages $1000 to $1500 even when trying to do it cheaply.
You are within range and the kids will be able to pick up some of the difference with summer and campus jobs, too. You all have got this.
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Weāre close to coming into range. Summer and campus jobs are already factored into it, and wonāt bring anything more in range. Weāre looking to appeals to do that, or something great to come through, which is still possible.
The rest is all so true. A lot of people here talk about saving on indirect costs and that they are inflated, but weāre thinking the opposite, except in some cases (like Arizona, which is drivable, and with respect to health insurance, which we have).
Luckily we have eager family in southern NJ, near Philly, which brings a lot of places in range, and also in various places in Europe, should that become the thing. Also, not bad for flights is hailing from the state capitol city of CA, and in easy driving distance of San Fran.
Also none of us has seriously considered what being apart means in so many other dimensions. Thereās been no time or space to contemplate that. Weāve never ever been apart, and they are twins, and obviously quite the opposite recently with the quarantine.
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