no at this level of school it’s not about chasing merit, it’s trusting that admittance = need met.
I have no doubt that my daughter can adapt to any college she is admitted to, so thanks for your concern. I have taught at every level (Ivy, LAC, large State U). So at the 30% and below need mets this is purely a question of can we get in.
It may be that the answer is no.
My son is a different question, but please note I barfed out all that as my very first post on CC and I had no idea how much people would leap on that and never let go. I had a different idea of what forums were all about before I came here-- more like a place to vent. Lesson learned.
Again, I’m not claiming my daughter is actually great nor that she has a great superficial package to offer admissions committees-- I’m just saying on the surface there is no flaw that can be detected. There are no admission denials coming in, or likely to ever come in.
Just a small note: I can’t go into details but I happen to know that her letters are in fact written in the right way and are excellent.
@UCDProf I was not trying to ‘tamp down’ on the idea of where your daughter stands in relation to other applicants - in fact I tried to go out of my way to acknowledge how many wonderful qualities she has. What I was trying to say is that every. other. applicant. at those sub 30% acceptance rate schools has equivalent (or better) qualities. They are all impressive. There are not lots of ‘throw your hat in the ring’ to see what happens applications being sent. There just aren’t. And to be clear, if your daughter applies to those schools - her application won’t be a ‘just throw it in to see’ - she definitely should try if she wants to because it sounds like she would be just fine at any of those schools. But getting a yes is hard. 7-9.5 out of 10 applicants get told no. That is just the plain facts of it. Being told a no is likely is not being negative, it is being factual.
If you read Jeff Selingo’s book Who Gets in and Why, you will get to a passage where he talks about listening to Emory AOs talking about applicants and that it starts to blur…all of them have great GPAs, test scores above 1370 and good essays - he starts understanding how difficult it is for any of these applicants to ‘stand out’.
She wants to apply to those schools? Fantastic! I truly hope (as I said before) that she gets accepted to one and you can afford to pay for it. I also hope you understand that is is harder for middle class girls to get accepted to these schools - more of them apply than boys so they are already at a slight disadvantage (numbers wise). I also hope the NPCs at the 30% schools match what gets spit out once you fill out the CSS forms.
That’s what I meant, not tamp down on my daughters actual qualities, but where she stands in the superficial admissions game.
I get what you are saying and that there is nothing to stand out, but I think her 100% acceptance rate at the rate she’s going is a sign that she should try more competitive schools.
Generally the NPCs at these schools spit out for us lower than EFC contributions, and if they are as accurate there as they have been at less competitive schools, EFC-met is fairly certain. At any rate, they are surely going to be the lowest cost. I can check but I think we’ve heard back from at least one CSS school and their offer matched the online NPC.
Women’s colleges don’t pose the problem of gender that other colleges might have, she will apply to both, but still she needs to experience at least one denial, how tragic could that be? Not being denied anywhere will also fail to leave any usable record for others later.
Another perspective on the 100% admission rate your daughter has thus far achieved (but not getting top merit at those schools) is that she isn’t in the top position at mid-tier schools where admission for her qualities is basically guaranteed. And an unaffordable admission is a deny, even if it isn’t the school saying “No”.
My D20 only applied to what you would probably consider ‘safety’ schools, but she was going for top merit at those schools to stay within our family budget so we considered them match schools as the merit was competitive. She did received top merit award at her ED school, but just to put this into perspective - she knows she was super lucky to have gotten that as she has since met others who received the same award and she was definitely ‘bottom of the barrel competitive’ compared to those other students (and she had a great application!). She thinks it definitely helped that she went above and beyond on demonstrated interest and it really was one of those, yes it is a ‘perfect fit’ kind of matches between the school and the student.
I don’t see the need for another perspective on the 100% admissions. Yes there is always a way anything positive happening can be turned into a negative.
Then there is the AO at Earlham, where my son got top merit but no need aid, who told my son to go out and apply to more colleges and come back with better offers so that he could get better support, and that his couple of Bs shouldn’t prevent him from applying to selective colleges with more money because “he went to a good school.”
Is he right about the school? Hell no. But it’s what he believed that matters. If he can believe my son is a strong candidate who went to a good school, others can believe it too. There have been some top merits for my daughter also, lately, but not early on, and a very heart rending merit award from a non competitive school where she had great relations and the same perfect fit thing going on that your describe about your daughter.
Is the AO right about my son applying up? For my son, maybe it’s a heck no, or a probably no. But the point is this AO thinks he’s great and his application is super strong
I actually agree with the loudest here that my son would actually be better off at a less selective college (don’t agree that a big u with less literary emphasis is in his best long term interest) and it wouldn’t serve him to go anywhere competitive without at least a gap year.
My daughter is ready for anything and it’s just what can she grab in this game, and anyone in a similar position would be stupid to not to try and stupid to find every which way to think negatively about the chances without even trying first or even experiencing one denial.
@UCDProf I’m not sure why others are discouraging you from applying to meet needs schools - as someone with reasonably high need my daughter targeted mostly meets needs schools - she is an average excellent student & was just admitted ED to her top school where the financial aid package was actually better than the NPC. I do believe applying ED2 will help her at those schools if she can commit, but she has a chance at them even RD. Not sub-15% schools - but sub-30%, definitely worth the try. To the extent she can keep her focus on all those apps - I would probably try to narrow down or at least prioritize. Good luck!
Congratulations on further acceptances and getting top merit at some of those, are any of them affordable? Or are you still waiting to see what the need-based financial piece will be at those colleges?
It sounds like the AO at Earlham is everything an AO should be: warm, encouraging and helpful. I’m glad your son is having such a good experience from reaching out and getting more info.
I think we will have to agree to disagree with what is negative, as I don’t think anything I’ve written is negative but rather factual. I’m not an overly optimistic person; but then I am a math person so maybe that’s the reason.
No none of them are affordable with merit alone, most have not yet issued need aid, but two have and are unaffordable, hence my starting to get the sense that this round was mis-aimed, as predicted by some but not all here.
However most are still yet to issue need aid, and there are still special scholarships, and in some cases coaches who have offered spots on the team and implied things about making it work.
I understand wanting privacy but you’d get the best info if you name schools. We’d be able to tell you the schools that gap in FA, what it takes to get max merit, etc
When I used Cc for my two kids’ searches, I was very open about their lists and it really helped.
You have clearly captured many people’s interest on here - would you consider making a D22/S22 Journey thread? Here is the one @homerdog did and it was a favorite thread for many of us on here: D21 journey. Personally, I would love to support you and follow the journey of your 2 kids and I think many would learn from it. p.s. And if it is your thread you can continually clarify when you want to just vent and when you want advice which I think people will respect!
I would bifurcate the application efforts for your son and daughter.
For your daughter, I think a meets need strategy could work. But, at LACs especially, demonstrating fit is essential. Claremont Colleges are a great example - I believe they will look at the high school resources holistically if the fit is really good. The shotgunning approach means there is little time to do the outreach and research necessary to demonstrate fit in supps and interviews. Pick a couple of good fits and dive deep. She also could have looked at big merit programs (Stamps etc) at less - selective schools. I’m thinking of places like Ohio State, UO — but those deadlines have long passed.
For your son, I raised concerns about LACs months ago. I’m not sure what more to say except I would look for ways to make affordable safeties like Sac State more supportive and interesting through honors colleges, LLCs, etc.
I truly hope your search for unicorn schools is successful, but Plan Bs are also important.
we had a calendar full of zoom meetings, interviews, etc that was quite crowded but now we have to make do with what little is available. A big portion of the DI went to schools with less money, unfortunately.
That’s water under the bridge. But also a lesson for others-- get your strategy right as soon as possible. We put huge amounts of effort into DI.
Luckily all the women’s colleges and some of the other need-mets, but not all by any means, have been DI’d this whole time, including Scripps. There’s some minimal catch-up that can still be done, and the rest is-- well we just have to make do under the circumstances.
We did miss the boat on Stamps by a couple weeks at UO because I never heard about Stamps. She would have LOVED to go to U Oregon. Of course, it would still be highly uncertain to get it.
I disagree that Sac State is any place for someone with academic weaknesses to get to their full potential, but sounds like you and I agree to disagree on that.
Plan C is go to community college. I have plan B for my daughter and I don’t have it for my son (except vaguely go to school in Europe, which is a huge amount of research), but oh well, it’s either Plan A or Plan C for him.
Incidentally I’ve just come back from a private forum connected to a paid admissions counselor and I’m seeing plenty of examples of needy students with my less than my daughter’s stats getting in test optional ED1 at need met colleges with under 20% acceptance (overall, not ED), and financial aid exceeding the NPC. It’s so refreshing to have actual real world examples.
Got it. As for Scripps, I don’t believe they are need blind and it sounds like they try to meet full need (with loans) but don’t hit that goal for all applicants.
Can you share any of these schools that come through with better than expected financial support? I suppose they are better ranked than Boston College which had a 26% acceptance rate in 2020. Then there’s #27 Macalester College with a 39% acceptance rate in 2020 (#17 in Best Value Natl Lib Arts).
Did your son pursue Hendrix? It’s pretty nurturing and meets in-state tuition rates.