Parents of the HS Class of 2024

Parents Forum Class of 20xx Community
5324

Trying not to open a can of worms with this question, but just could use some affirmation that this is a correct viewpoint. And this isn’t necessarily even relevant for my kid, who is undecided for major and really doesn’t care about ranking as far as I can tell, in spite of the fact that most of the schools on the list are reaches.

For a high stats student who ends up majoring in physics, does school have a significant impact on career prospects? If all schools on the list are somewhere in the top 100 (most toward the front half and the state flagship safety more toward the back end), they all ought to be “good enough,” yes?

I’m not looking for physics rankings as I can find that myself. The question is more about whether it matters, whether to expect a significant variation in quality of programs such that it might be a factor making the list. And my thought is that for physics, it won’t matter to any significant degree and so we wouldn’t even worry about that.

5325

I think it depends on the career itself. Looking for a PhD and then into academia? There are for sure stats about which programs generate the best results there and it will almost certainly matter where you do your undergrad (I know @NiceUnparticularMan has posted these types of stats). HS physics teacher? Guessing “any old T100” physics major will be fine. Lab-based physics? Not sure.

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5326

Ok, makes sense. Since kid is undecided for major, considering career prospects coming out of a particular major is perhaps a bridge too far looking through the crystal ball, if you all don’t mind mixed metaphors.

I guess, then, my question would be with regard to employment in industry rather than academia (lol no, I have not googled types of jobs that physics majors tend to take).

Secret worry: kid will decide in spring/summer that they want engineering. Seems possible from the safety, so I guess it’s all good, though I should quietly look at the possibility of internal transfer to engineering at the other schools. Possible at some but not others. (Sibling is an engineering major so I have some idea.)

5327

It may indeed be a bridge too far, though maybe someone else with more experience may have some insight into jobs for physics majors :slight_smile:

We may have a physics major on our hands (self-described “math and physics kid”) so I too would be interested!

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5328

I don’t think the undergraduate institution itself matters that much, presuming that there is graduate school in the mix.

I say this as a person that grew up in Los Alamos, where everyone’s parents were PhDs in hard sciences. My own father did his undergrad at Texas Tech, which is ranked in the low 200s. You do well wherever, and then go to grad school.

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5329

ED was a huge relief for my S23 as well, but there was an unexpected side effect: apathy. After his mid-December acceptance, his enthusiasm for anything high school related nosedived. Even his main extracurricular, which had been his passion since elementary school, bored him. He was just anxious for the school year to be over and to transition to the next phase of his life and meet new people. But, in my opinion, it was a small price to pay for a stress-free spring semester.

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5330

I suspect senioritis comes for them all, regardless of whether they’re done with the admissions process by Jan.

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5331

True. The difference being those seniors who had been deferred or were still awaiting decisions couldn’t give in to seniorities. While my kid was calculating how many classes he could skip and maintain his grades, his friends with no acceptances, and especially those deferred from REA schools, were still striving for acceptances.

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5332

So for various reasons I do have a little personal insight into Physics. And I think Physics can be challenging for next-steps if you really want to stick with Physics, as there is only so much funding out there for basic research. Industries used to fund more basic physics research, but not as much anymore unless it is really tied into something very specific they do.

On the other hand, a Physics degree is basically a math degree with a big side helping of science knowledge, and such math/science people are often highly valued and so can do almost anything. Like, lots of people with Physics degrees go on to med school or other health professions, law school, into business including banking/finance, and so on.

Given this context, I think a Physics degree from any of your typical good liberal arts and sciences colleges, private or public, will tend to be a good degree as long as you are flexible about what you do next. If you instead really want to get a Physics PhD that will be worth something, well, that is a lot more challenging.

And the usual rules apply to that–first and foremost, you need to be an outstanding student in your undergrad program. Including getting the support of one or more professors in that program. And a general reality is that while there are professors who went to top PhD programs themselves across a wide range of colleges, they generally have to be careful about how often they can really go to bat for an outstanding student, with the ones at less selective colleges generally having to be more judicious about how many people they do that for in a given period of time.

And so that is probably the one area in which college choice can matter in the sense that a college which places more PhD students in Physics likely will continue doing so. But then the competition to be one of those students will likely be high, so you have to be confident you can be an outstanding student there.

But again, if you are not trying to go the PhD route–you maybe don’t need to be quite that outstanding, although you do maybe want to be careful about your grades for things like med school or law school.

OK, so with all that in mind, here is a handy list of PhD feeders for Physics:

https://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/dataverse/top-feeders-phd-programs#physics

My two cents is the total list is useful for identifying publics and other larger research universities with “good” Physics departments, and the per capita (aka Adjusted) list is good for identifying smaller colleges including LACs that also have “good” Physics departments.

Of course a few colleges are high on both lists–Caltech, MIT, and Chicago, for example. Here is a shocker, those are good places for Physics. But there are some others like that I am not sure everyone would know about, like Rochester. Or Arizona–not on the per capita list including because it is a huge school, but really strong in Physics.

But again, if you don’t actually want to do a Physics PhD, many more colleges will probably be good enough. But if nothing else, these PhD feeders are colleges where you know there will be at least a decent percentage of Physics students who are actually into Physics (not just taking it, say, as a pre-med or engineering class). And also with at least a decent number of engaged undergraduate Physics professors, in the sense of caring enough about their outstanding students to help them get into PhD programs if that is something they want.

So personally, I think if a kid was looking at some otherwise well-fitting schools but had a possible interest in Physics–why not check out how they did on these charts? And indeed, such a kid might get some ideas about where else to consider if they were not already on their list.

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5333

Super helpful. Thank you!! (…)

5334

If you requested the score to be sent to a school when you signed up for the ACT score (free), I’m not sure if it’s cancelable. The school probably already received it.

If you are sending the scores after the fact ($18/school), then you can select which score or super score to send.

If you send a super score, then they will send ALL test results that were used to generate the super score.

I’m not sure if there are schools that require ALL scores anymore. ACT does allow the student to permanently delete test scores. If you have a 25 composite score in your 10th grade you want to remove from your record, you can. You just need to email ACT with the request.

5335

That’s really cool! I don’t want to keep talking your ears off, but I will just re-emphasize that in my mind, this is really good general praise. Like whether or not such a kid goes on to a career in Physics, whether or not they ever take another Physics class in fact, the sort of person who has a gift for Physics at that age is very likely to be the sort of person who is also going to be valued in many different classes and careers.

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5336

I believe Georgetown requires all scores.

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5337

I think you’ll find great programs at unknown schools and some not so great programs at known schools.

Rank / pedigree doesn’t necessarily equate to - how is the quality of education, the mentorship, etc.

To answer your question, @AustenNut nut posted a table on another thread - and you see schools that’s aren’t necessarily ranked high - like Arizona (#115) and Lawrence U (#75 LAC). While you don’t want major rankings, you’ll find schools like Arizona and CU Boulder often in them for the major.

As for career prospects, you can ask each school for their outcomes or look on their career pages. But physics is listed amongst the better paying and more employable majors - and while my kid didn’t major in physics but close enough (MechE), he was loaded with interviews (too many he said) and had 5 great job offers by Christmas at #170 Alabama and works with kids from higher ranked schools, including one he turned down (Purdue).

I think ranking matters to US News people and students who think they matter - but an employer likely doesn’t care if you went to #40 Rutgers, #47, #73 Tulane, #86 Clemson, #115 Utah, #142 Oregon State, or #216 WVU - they just don’t.

Now - there may be some major specific - where the “lower” ranked may outperform the higher - as is the case with physics - and of course every school will have it’s “relationships” and perhaps in physics a Lehight, RPI or WPI - while not your regular type school - might excel.

But I would find the right school at the right price - that fits your student - because they have to be there every day, for four years.

But I don’t think bottom 50 of the top 100 or #179, etc. matters.

And I’m not sure that any of the rankings will give credence to quality of the program.

I go back to my days at Syracuse and the journalism school was right at the top. And the education - not good. My friend dropped out due to money and finished up at Montana. They had 20 kids. Whereas maybe 90% of those in my class never sniffed the industry (but some made it big), Montana placed all 20 into good jobs and Becky is a news director to this day.

I assure you they weren’t on anyone’s radar.

My daughter’s college is, for the most part, providing an excellent education - and it’s ranked in the regional universities so not even a national (College of Charleston). Small classes etc. that may not have happened at Clemson or U of S Carolina…I don’t know…but that might be something to investigate.

One final thing - today, moreso than ever and even at the Ivies as the Cornell career dashboard shows, students are finding jobs on linkedin, indeed, handshake postings (the colleges linkedin). It’s a reality - yes, there are companies targeting schools and professors can help and all that - but it’s a lot less than prior…a lot less. Covid and Zoom helped change that.

So my kid with 20 interviews and 5 offers - plus his internship the year before - done this way at school #170. My daughter found her internship with the state that way and had 7 offers for a fall internship in DC - and is at a top think tank - and yep, found this way…at Southern Regional University #9.

So the where - honestly - is far less important - so that’s the jobs question.

But I don’t think as mentioned you can necessarily equate ranking to quality - because there are many smaller or lesser known/ranked schools that will give potentially a better education.

So find the right fit…go through course offerings - who has the electives or specialties of interest - whether space/astronomy or nuclear based, etc.

Find that program that feels right to the student and if it’s one you can afford - that’s the one they should be at - no matter what US News says…which by the way is different than what Forbes, WSJ, or other rankings will say. Plus, those rankings are using a methodology that isn’t necessarily relevant to what your student or any student wants in a school.

Good luck.

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5338

Thank you! This is helpful. I’m still working my way through that other family’s thread.

5339

Yeah, to listen to some people, anyone who doesn’t go to a “T-whatever” is essentially unemployable and wasted their money.

Meanwhile, actual studies repeatedly show that most people who go to a non-profit four-year college (including after first going to a two-year college) get a big demonstrable benefit out of it. Not that college is right or necessary for everyone, but when it is right for you, then it can be one of the most helpful things you will ever do for yourself.

But this necessarily means this is not just happening at a few dozen colleges. It is happening across a very wide range of colleges. Meaning the typical improvement in prospects from attending a non-profit four-year college is broadly, not narrowly, distributed.

Which doesn’t mean I would quite suggest you should pick your college out of a hat. But I do think people should understand that going to such a college in general is often a great idea–for the right kid, assuming it is comfortably affordable. And then which college to choose is also a valid question, but not because you will only benefit if you make the perfect choice. Rather, you will probably benefit at all the places you would reasonably consider, so your choice can be about more nuanced things, including things that have nothing in particular to do with your future career.

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5340

How to delete ACT scores from your record.

5341

I feel for the kids especially. Every adult (in every encounter) asks them what their first choice is and where they are applying. My son has taken to answering “I’ve got a good list that I’m happy with.”

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5342

Yes, I suppose you can circumvent the report all tests requirement by eliminating undesirable scores (as long as you aren’t using any of those sub scores as part of a super score). If you have already sent an official report to a school, though, they’ll be notified that you are doing this - I’d guess that won’t look very good to a school, like Georgetown, that wants to see all tests.

5343

I think a lot of people just expect to hear - I’m headed to (the state flagship) or the local public, etc.

So I don’t think anyone has ill intent.

Plus many may not realize the calendar - and may even assume - you can just go where you want to.

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