I think what @MommaLue is saying is the key. If you are looking for T20 schools, getting extremely high GPA is given. Based on what I understand, the class rank is more important than the raw GPA number.
If you have 3.86 UW GPA + 36 ACT, but your class rank is 1/500, then 3.86 wouldn’t matter much. AO knows your school is tight with grades.
If you have 4.0 UW GPA + 36 ACT but class rank is 10/350 (my nephew’s actual number) then EC will matter a lot. He had good EC including being a class president but not exceptional. He was accepted to only 1 Ivy school.
I get it, but I do think the private schools are in their own world. S24’s school does not weight and does not rank. No-one is graduating S’s school with an UW 4.0 and nearly everyone is graduating into a good, great or amazing college.
If I had to guess, S’s grades likely place him in either the top third or top quarter of his class (obviously 11th grade matters a lot). We weren’t considering Ivy League or anything in the top 20. But it would be nice to know whether a 3.7 forecloses a school like BU (yes I know it’s a reach) or a public like Wisconsin.
I’m sure we’ll know more next year, but I can’t help but feel frustrated by a system that views S negatively for getting mostly A- (90) when someone else’s school calls that same grade a 4.0.
(FWIW, this isn’t our first go-around, but our daughter attended a very different high school and is now at Barnard. Can’t really compare the two situations).
One thing CC definitely teaches me: given his school’s grading system, there is little upside in S applying test optional. He’s going to need those standardized scores, one way or the other.
The colleges will likely use unweighted GPAs for comparison, possibly even only applying certain courses, and then using their own/consistent weighting for Honors, AP/IB.
They’ll also get the grading system of the high school from the guidance dept, e.g., how is an A represented numerically.
PS Congrats to your daughter attending “Barnumbia”
Lot of Schools do not have a School Rank. Our school does not Rank. They only give GPA of Top 10% GPA of the next 10% and so on and they do not use the weighted GPA for this list so this also does not give full picture as rigor differs.
In some sense, AO can still rank your kid since they have history of students from your school, current and past.
Say they have a student with 3.8 from your school whom they accepted. They saw this person performing well and graduated on time. If they see your kid with 3.9UW GPA, even if there is no official class rank, they know how to rank your kid.
Based on what I have read, the AO has 2 primary goals. Select students who will graduate and select students who fits the profile of student body college desires.
I think AP scores are getting more attention because there is a trend for test optional or test blind.
I would argue that if they are getting rid of SAT/ACT because equity, they should get rid of AP scores first. Not all schools offer same amount of AP courses and there is a fee associated with AP test. I don’t understand the logic of keeping AP scores in the application, if they are not looking at SAT/ACT scores.
This uncertainty is my frustration also. I would love to get more clarity since all these uncertainties create stress for the family. I would really hate to have S24 to apply 20+ schools because we don’t know how it’s going to turn out. so much time and resource wasted because of it.
Check if your school has tools like Cialfo or Naviance. S24’s school changed to Cialfo last year and it tracks the past history of your school and it can give you some rough guidance.
For BU, I see the average of students accepted at BU from S24’s school last few years is 4.23 W GPA, 3.83 UW GPA, 1430 SAT or 31 ACT. I’m guessing if you have that number, you have a shot.
No one below 1250 SAT, 3.35 UW GPA, 3.75 W GPA were accepted. The biggest cluster is at 3.9 UW GPA + 1500 SAT.
But then I see a few 4.0 UW GPA + 1570 rejected… either bad data or admission is really a crapshoot.
I don’t think AP scores will have that big of an emphasis. Unofficial convo with someone who is involved in admissions. The reason for this is not all schools offer the same amount of APs. And then you get into the wealth disparity discussion. They will look at course rigor based on what the school offers the students and assess if the student took advantage of the classes offered.
Wealth disparity shows up in EC as well. EC is directly vary with family income more than SAT/ACT. Summer program for SAT prep costs maybe $1-2k? A plain vanilla club soccer costs min $3-4k per year then add a few thousand for traveling cost for various tournaments and private training. But it’s probably still cheaper than many other EC.
If you look at the list of EC, then AO should be able to gauge family income easily.
However, AO can’t say they will look at EC that doesn’t cost a lot of money.
I wonder what AO will look when they get rid of everything that’s not equitable.
Yes I agree they will look at past data and try to rank you based on that but it will be more like top 5% top 10% and not exact rank like 1/500 as we have many students who have perfect GPA with AP scores 5 and Near perfect SAT scores. The school only school shares only letter grades not the if they got 98% or 95% to get an A.
I think that is true of many schools these days. Our school doesn’t rank but they do show class weighted gpa’s by decile so colleges will know where kids fall. I think with the number of kids getting a 4.0 being valedictorian is no longer such a big deal -I’ve heard of schools where dozens of kids are tied for the top spot.
Yes true there are too many kids around the same GPA. I wish our school did Weighted GPA but they don’t. When asked in a meeting the GC said that we don’t want the kids to feel that they have to take all AP classes in 11th and 12th to get the highest GPA possible. So they only do unweighted GPA so there is some balance.
@RadM That’s ok because colleges have their own system and they look at the course rigor on the transcript of each student. They can see this and if the common data set is true, they do put a lot of weight on course rigor and GPA. And then your essays gotta show them who you are and why you’re a fit for their community.
Our high school also adopted the decile system, with the expressly stated intention not to add even more stress for the top 10 kids (or maybe their parents ) on who happens to be “named” Valedictorian based on some third decimal.
The principal said that the top kids had a pretty good idea amongst themselves anyway, and during awards night, you certainly noticed a handful of kids returning repeatedly to the stage for “perfect score” awards for ACTs, SATs, APs, and for departmental awards, and for “A” grades in every single subject for 4 years.
Naming “one” super-best among those was indeed rather pointless.
Covid finally got us in NorCal. My D26 came down with a mild fever and headache. An at-home test showed positive while all other family members are showing negative so far (finger crossed).
Last night was the worst for D26 with 101 fever but she is already doing better this morning, demanding ice cream for breakfast. Overall, I’m hopeful that she is done. She is fully vaccinated and has been pretty careful.
Be careful and stay healthy! Merry Christmas everyone.
) on who happens to be “named” Valedictorian based on some third decimal.