Just for folks reading Imptime and other posters comments on “apply because you never know”-
I have siblings, cousins, and other folks I trust who have told me that their NPC’s at Harvard, Princeton, MIT, Middlebury, Cornell were within $400 give or take of what their actual award was (Princeton’s was off by $5).
I cannot speak for the merit schools. And these numbers would NOT be accurate for divorced parents, someone self-employed, etc. But for a two earner, plain vanilla family (two W2’s at the end of the year; assets mostly in a retirement plan or 529 for college, and a money market account/savings account/modest mutual fund account) the actual aid awarded is going to be very, very close at this tier of school to what actually gets awarded.
So do not apply to a need-only school if your NPC shows a number which is absolutely and without a doubt out of the question not affordable. If you think Brandeis is going to look at your award from Harvard and say, “Heck yeah, we’ll match that!” that’s not happening. If you think that your own state flagship is going to look at your award from Princeton and say, “Gosh, we should have been more generous” that’s not happening. You can ALWAYS go back to any of the need-only schools with a change of circumstance, loss of a job, hurricane blew your house down.
But the need-only, generous schools put a lot of time into their financial aid policies and strategies. And getting in- but not being able to afford to send your kid- is not the boon that some on here seem to think it is. Not for the parents, not for the kid. Better to target the realistic colleges which look affordable- even with a moderate stretch-- and then choose from a range of possible options. Next April you can debate the finer points of getting an extra $1500 out of a college which seems to really want your kid. But get an extra 35K from a need-only school if your financials don’t warrant it?
That has happened exactly zero times in the modern era.
I am 100% supportive of having a child choose merit money over prestige - because that’s what worked for Kiddo #1. However, I did let her apply to a super-reach that we knew based off the NPC would not work out. I put my foot down and told her that a visit would happen only if she was admitted and given a package that surprised us and made it affordable. She just needed to see whether she could get in. I was confident that she completely understood and would be able to turn it down if she got accepted (which is what happened). She’s the kid that will say, “I turned down Top 10 School to be here” in a positive tone; not be the kid that says it wistfully or with huge regret. Some kids do need to try just because not knowing is worse than having to say no.
Haven’t read through the thread, but wanted to weigh in with our experience in case it may be helpful (and to boast!) Daughter was premed and some of our friends all told us we were making a huge mistake by sending her to a school outside the top 20 with a full tuition scholarship rather than paying for a “top” school.
Outcome: 4 really fun years, no debt and full COA merit scholarships to two top 10 research med schools, as well as full tuition to a top 5 Again, she followed the money over prestige.
First off, the whole premise of this thread is flawed and unrealistic. The OP doesn’t have any money saved for college and can’t afford “prestige” schools that don’t give merit so there is no decision. They have to follow the money. Period.
Secondly, going to a top prestige school can be a life changing experience for some, learning from top scholars in their field, studying with extremely bright and talented student body, fantastic internships possibilities, incredible alumni network, and some fields and industries hire predominantly from these schools, giving you a better chance to land coveted jobs after college.
With that said, most students, by definition, won’t attend a top college and can/will be successful and happy with their career and personal life and if they don’t have any undergraduate debt, that is a bonus, especially if planning on going to graduate school.
Every family situation is different. Here are a few reasons why families may not save from early childhood:
High cost of living in the area (taxes, housing, etc.)
Daycare cost consuming high proportion of family income
Salary increases each year not keeping up with increased costs for health insurance
Medical expenses
No pension, needing to fund retirement plan
Loss of jobs at any point during the 18 years prior to college starting
Costly repairs to homes or cars
$150K is a very nice living in rural Mississippi, but it is barely enough to get by for a family of four in San Francisco. $150K is nice if you have one parent working - but if both parents are working, and you are paying for two kids in daycare, there’s not a lot left over to save anything. It’s all relative. $150K isn’t the same from family to family.
Saying just save a little bit, it all adds up isn’t helpful either. I see people here saying, even $25 here and there helps! Does it really?
Here’s an example: For our in-state flagship university, tuition is $37K per year. To have saved that much money, a family would need to put aside $525 per month, every month from birth until 18 to have enough to cover the 4 years of tuition assuming you were able to get 3% interest, compounded monthly over the life of the account. That’s a pretty tidy sum of money for most people. Especially if the parents are also trying to swing daycare at the same time. When my son was in daycare 16 years ago, the rate was $275 per week for an infant. I can’t imagine what it is now! It’s not up to anybody but the family how to spend their earnings.
Let’s just assume that all parents are doing the best they possibly can for their children. Let’s not nitpick about who took a vacation, or who suffered the most to give their kids college. There are many valid paths to getting a college education. There’s no single right way to do it.
@ucbalumnus - Pew research puts $150K in San Francisco for a family of four solidy in the middle class range around the 48% percentile - not even in the top half. In rural Mississippi - you are in the upper quartile in the top 14% of earners.
The salary needed to buy a home in San Francisco is at $161K per year right now.
The point I was trying to make was that “rich” is relative.
The EFC for the San Francisco family is likely to be the same as the Mississippi family - even though they don’t have anywhere near the same amount of discretionary income.
@elodyCOH thanks for the reply and i do understand everyone’s situation is different. With that said, some people that decide to have kids start setting up a college savings plan immediately and when you start saving early over 18-21 years, it’s not as difficult to have a nest egg for college. The very reason you plan and save early is because if you lose a job or have medical expenses, some of the college money has been saved already for many years. You don’t wait until they are in HS to start saving and then claim college is too expensive.
The same can be said for saving for retirement. The first day you get a job as as adult, you put 5-10% (pick a number) of every paycheck into a retirement account. The stock market and housing market has been on a tear for several decades (with a few minor hiccups along the way). Any diversified mutual fund made a lot of money over the last 18 years, for example.
It just saddens me that some parents don’t do these things and then their kid is a senior in HS and the kid has to pay for college with merit scholarships (if they are good students) and/or loans and part-time jobs while going through school just to afford the bare minimum.
It’s real easy to make excuses for not saving “a dime” but it’s a lot harder to have a plan and execute that plan over many, many years.
@socaldad2002 Even saving from birth, many families could not save up enough. You were able to do it. Congrats to you. But don’t sit on your privileged pedestal judging others when you don’t know their personal situations. Its not black and white. Additionally, there is nothing sad about merit scholarships.
Really? It “saddens you” that different families have different expectation than your own? Not everyone lives in your reality.
My kids have been told since day one that there is no magic money tree or tuition fairy, we made choices early on to be a single income family because it was more important for us to raise and school our children at home and be a family. It was our CHOICE please don’t feel sad for us that we were able to spend 18 years of quality family time with our kids and then they had to “settle” for full rides or near full ride merit scholarships. Oh woe is me!
DD16 had to “settle” for a near full ride at OU as a Meteorology major instead of going to a lower rated school at full Pay?
DS18 will attend UTD on a full ride as a comp sci major accepted into the honors program and the computing scholars program and the Clark Summer Research program instead of going to UT at full pay?
DS20 is very likely to follow in the path of his siblings.
I am very PROUD of my kids and feel no reason why you should feel sad for them.
3scoutsmom “I just shared your post with DH and he asked which full ride merit scholarships you are “sad” that your kids were offered?”
I think you are missing the point, no one knows if their kid will qualify for a merit scholarship until they are in high school, but the parents have not saved a dime for college. What happens if little Suzy is an average student, does she have to attend a community college because no one has saved any money for college for her? Just trying to understand the strategy and logic here?
Is it that some parents feel the expense of college is 100% someone else’s responsibility?
And yes, sad that the only way a student stays in college is to maintain a certain GPA to continue to receive that merit scholarship money each year. What kind of pressure do you think is on that kid as there is no back up plan (i.e. no college savings to fall back on).
@socaldad2002 Those are your priorities and values. Not all families share those goals. If a student is not strong enough academically to be awarded merit scholarships, why is attending a local university or CC a tragedy? Not every student is an academic superstar who needs to go away to a 4 yr college.
Then, there are students who could go away if they wanted and yet opt not to. Plenty of kids choose to go to their local U. Both of my sister’s kids had college funds and could have gone away (one did and then transferred back home). They wanted to live at home and commute. Ironically, then one took her art history degree from a small directional U, decided to move to NYC, and is now a sr exec with a high profile career…life is not a fixed set of sequences with predetermined outcomes based on playing by other people’s preconceived rules. Other skill sets can play far more into career outcomes than just a 4 yr degree. CC is too focused on just 4 yrs when in reality life is way more complex.
I agree with @3scoutsmom. Don’t feel sorry for our kids, either. They have (had) wonderful UG experiences and have achieved their personal goals. They have been very successful both academically and in their careers bc that is who they are. (Fwiw, they have had zero stress about maintaining their GPA for their scholarships. Their GPAs have been way beyond what has been required.) And if they had had to live at home and commute to the local U bc scholarships were something that did not exist, we still wouldn’t have changed anything. They would have attended the local U, have pursued every opportunity there, and have still gone on to be who they are anyway. Internal drive to succeed will take people where they want to go. And the ones who don’t have that internal drive, well, they tend to be happier in low key environs anyway.
Of course there are lots of different situations. Statistically though I understand that a majority of students who are accepting big merit scholarships tend to come from wealthier households, who have minimal financial need in terms of affording to send their kids to college. Hard to “feel sorry” for them given that reality. In many cases there are a lot better ways to set your children up for success in life then choosing a more expensive college option when the ROI isn’t there.
The CC crowd aside, in the real world people tend to follow the money more often than not.
Really? Parents have no idea of their children’s potential for merit scholarships until high school? I was pretty sure dd16 would be on track for a merit scholarship by the time she was in first grade and I started to suspect ds18 wouldn’t have an issue with merit scholarships when he was three years old, by the time he was four I knew he wouldn’t have a problem with merit.
First of all you are assuming there was money to be saved, as many have pointed out this isn’t always the case and second there is nothing wrong with going to a community college. I went to a community college and worked and then got outside merit scholarships and attended FSU.
No one is forcing schools or outside organizations to offer merit scholarships and there is nothing wrong with students pursuing them. Some schools offer merit scholars to attract top students, some professional organizations offer merit aid to attract top students to their field, some employers offer merit based scholarships to employee’s children as a job perk. Are you saying that these scholarships are some how wrong and students shouldn’t take them?
It’s “sad” that student have to maintain a certain GPA? Many (most?all?) schools require ALL students to maintain a certain GPA to stay in school or in a certain program (scholarship or not). Both DD and DS only have to maintain a 3.0 for their scholarships and if their GPA falls below that there is a probation period and chance a chance to bring their grades up. They don’t feel pressure at all. In fact I have heard of parents with full college saving requiring their children to maintain a certain GPA as a condition of paying for college. Do you think those parents are putting to much “pressure” on their children? Should these parents continue to pay for low grades, if so for how many years?
There are many ways to pay for college, my father joined the Navy to pay for medical school, my nephew took a job at a college so his kids would get free tuition there, some kids take tons of AP/DE/CLEP credits and graduate early to reduce the expense of college, many families take out loans, my kids go after merit. Different strokes for different folks.
It’s great that you have been able to save enough to fully fund all your children’s college expenses. Not everyone can or chooses to do this just like not everyone can or chooses to go after merit scholarships.
@socaldad2002 I knew my D would be competitive for merit scholarships from the time she was around 3. When I talk to families with young kids, I do caution them that they need to know their children in planning for college and do what they can to save if possible. The Stamps Foundation is paying for my D’s bachelors and first masters degree. She has a high GPA requirement to maintain the scholarship, but it isn’t an issue for her. There is no added pressure. Her natural drive and hard work that have gotten her this far continue to propel her towards her goals. And guess what? She’ll be pursuing merit scholarships for any further graduate study. I fail to see why we should pay just because I can (and you think I should) rather than seek out merit scholarships. We’re not cheating the system or forcing others to pay for my D’s education. We are accepting what is being enthusiastically offered. You chose a different path and that’s your choice. It’s not a more righteous one.