<p>So, I’m freaking out because I accidentally missed the postmark of this big scholarship (well, more like scholarships. 1 app = like 30 scholarships, but not qualified for all of them) and now my parents are threatening to call Brown and tell them I can’t attend because of financial issues. 1) My family is Upper Middle class, ive already gotten ~8000-9000 dollars of scholarship money on my own. 2) My brother had just as much, if not, lower amount of scholarships, but he wants to go to law school. I want to get my Ph.D. in math or geoscience (not decided yet). My parents say they don’t feel comfortable signing off my loans without going into law school or med school. I love Brown, but im not willing to go if it means being happy for 4 years and then hating the rest of my life in law/med school. So, what can I do to convince them I will be able to pay off ~20,000 dollars or loans/year after i get out of college, concentrating in math/geoscience/any science (considering my paths may lead me to another concentration)???</p>
<p>omg i have not a clue what to do in your situation but i feel soooo bad for you! im so sorry</p>
<p><so, what=“” can=“” i=“” do=“” to=“” convince=“” them=“” will=“” be=“” able=“” pay=“” off=“” ~20,000=“” dollars=“” or=“” loans=“” year=“” after=“” get=“” out=“” of=“” college,=“” concentrating=“” in=“” math=“” geoscience=“” any=“” science=“” (considering=“” my=“” paths=“” may=“” lead=“” me=“” another=“” concentration)???=“”> </so,></p>
<p>All right, so promise them you’ll want to go into a high paying job. BUT… If you find out you can’t do it or if your GPA isn’t good enough, TRANSFER out of Brown into an easier and a lot cheaper school. I don’t see any other way to do this. If you have to do 4 years at brown and risk not getting a high enough GPA for med school then wth I don’t know how to help you.</p>
<p>what i don’t understand, and im trying to explain to them, is that there are still many scholarships. I’m still working on this one right now trying to somehow miraculously make the deadline, but it’s so unlikely. If I can get this in, though, then I won’t have a problem. I think I’m gonna have a problem… Oh, and if I’m forced to do what I don’t want to do (like law or med school), i’ll just go to a state college. They offered me a lot (full ride +10,000, honors program, enter as a sophomore or junior (my pick)), so I would just attend there, get my diploma, and somehow hope and pray to god that Brown would somehow accept me into grad school…</p>
<p>How can you be forced to follow a career path? You don’t even need to create a major for a couple of years. As a parent, I cringe when I see other parents trying to “force” (by threat, or otherwise) career decisions. Selecting a spouse for a child is only a few feet down the slippery slope. Neither of my children, one a junior at an elite LAC and one a first-year at Columbia, has any clue what he will do in his “career.”</p>
<p>Why not simply tell your folks that you will do your best to create a career path they find acceptable (just as you will do your best someday to choose a spouse they’re not ashamed of)? You may find that, after a couple of years at Brown, your goals may jibe with theirs. Or they won’t. It’s just too early to tell.</p>
<p>I agree with pbr. Its also possible that their motives are more about forcing you into the career of their choice than the money itself.</p>
<p>Some ideas specific to your situation: if you want to get a PhD in math and geoscience, then in grad school you won’t have to pay tuition, and likely you’ll get a large enough stipend that your housing will be covered. So the only problem would be that your unsubsidized loans (but not any subsidized ones you get) will still be being capitalized, so by the time you’ve got a doctorate your 80,000 in debt is likely to be about 100,000. Whereas if you go to Law or Medical school, you probably won’t get any financial aid, and will have to pony up 50,000+/year. Meaning your debt out of law or med is likely to be 120,000+, not counting undergrad debt. On top of an undergrad debt of 80,000, it’d likely be closer to 200,000+. And doctorates in general average a very good salary, and there’s no guarantee that as a lawyer or doctor you’ll actually make that good a salary. You’re much more likely to do better in something you love than something you’re just doing for money.</p>
<p>I agree with pbr though. My dad wasn’t especially keen on me going to Brown because of the debt I’d take on. But after a semester, and his visiting, and my explaining how good this place is for me, he’s come completely around and is now gung-ho for Brown too. As an undergrad, explore all your options. Maybe you will decide that med or law school is for you. But if not, there are plenty of other respectable, good-paying professions that you’ll be happy in, and that hopefully your parents will approve of.</p>
<p>The weird thing is that they love Brown (my brother goes there too), but the problem is that they’re so stingy and don’t think that taking risks is possible. They think I’ll be at 200,000 dollars in debt as soon as i get out of undergrad. i just got absolutely scolded at for asking my mom for a grilled cheese sandwich because i wasn’t doing scholarships. My mom said that she’d help me with an essay scholarship about Realtor and all she told me was that they were ethical. No examples or anything when she promised me she would (she got her real estate licenses a couple years ago, but quit cuz she didnt like it). i thought she had better ideas. when i said can i have an example/do you have anything else, i got screamed at as if i just murdered someone again. now im grounded for the rest of the weekend because I don’t want to be a lawyer nor a doctor. This is absolutely ridiculous. If they ever knew I’d post this, I would probably be beaten or something cuz they’re perfect and anything on the internet bad about them, even anonymous, would get me in trouble.</p>
<p>Wow. I was (SORT OF) understood some of your feelings until you called your parents stingy. So I’m gonna say it - you have NO CLUE what that amount of money is, NOR do you understand the economic situation today. No matter how much you say you do. Until you are in the position where you aren’t sure if you can feed your children next year…you’re still at a place in your life where your parents make your decisions. Hopefully, that’s with your input. But I can see from your last post that you still need much guidance. Law School and Med School are PROFESSIONAL schools. Virtually guaranteed a job, with a great chance of paying that back. Many undergrad schools are extended high schools. A necessity today, just like a high school diploma used to be, but it guarantees you NOTHING in terms of job security. Like you, I am upper middle class, and I CANNOT afford to pay for a Brown education for my daughter either. She applied anyway. If she’s lucky enough to be admitted, her acceptance of the offer is dependant upon what aid package they calculate…as it is for MOST families. I required that she applies to her in state Uni, and she has been admitted there. We know that’s her financial safety. She ALSO has ivy dreams. But they are NOT a financial reality for many kids. Sometimes you will not get everything you want. “Swim”…should I assume you’re a recruited athlete? Because I honestly cannot understand an ivy acceptance for someone so shallow as to not understand this, and say these things about their parent. Sorry if you think this is harsh, it’s just truth. Situations change. This are worse for nearly everyone on this board than they were a year ago, or two. Yet college costs have SKYROCKETED far beyond the cost of living inflation, while nearly everyone’s income has remained flat IF they’re lucky.</p>
<p>it’s a sucky time to be averag and 18, that’s for sure. Competition is at an all time high. Kids who would have slid into Ivies before are getting shut out at first glance. BUT…in those times you ALSO had to have a LOT of cash. Now that Ivies are using endowments to ease that pain for some…there has appeared a sense of entitlement - one of my least favorite words.</p>
<p>Go cook dinner for your parents tonight and thank them for everything they’ve done for you in the past. Tell them you’re trying to understand the situation, but the numbers are bigger than your ken. Ask them to understand YOUR position…that all you want is some time to see about scholarships. And apology for all the bad things you’ve said about the people who’ve given their last 18 years for you and your brother. Jiminy Crickets.</p>
<p>Professional schools do not guarantee a job. Math and geology are both incredibly sought after degrees, even with just a bachelors. A bachelors in math could get you into actuarial work, all kinds of business and finance, computer science, etc etc.</p>
<p>If your goal is a Phd and become a researcher or professor, you’re likely to make more your first year coming out than a lawyer.</p>
<p>[PayScale</a> - Lawyer Starting Salaries, Average Salary for a Lawyer](<a href=“http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Attorney_%2F_Lawyer/Salary]PayScale”>http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Attorney_%2F_Lawyer/Salary)
[PayScale</a> - Professor, Postsecondary / Higher Education Salary, Average Salaries by State](<a href=“http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Professor%2C_Postsecondary_%2F_Higher_Education/Salary/by_State]PayScale”>Professor, Postsecondary / Higher Education Salary in 2024 | PayScale)</p>
<p>Realize that science professors make much more than social sciences/humanities.</p>
<p>Law school and med school = huge bucks and debt. Graduate school in the sciences = breaking even.</p>
<p>If your brother is at Brown, you realize that his financial aid package is going to virtually DOUBLE with you in school and you should be receiving the same/similar package.</p>
<p>There are many lucrative jobs out there that are not at all connected to professional school and anyone saying otherwise is full of it.</p>
<p>I do apologize for what I did say about my parents. I’m still a 17 year old kid who seems to get a little frantic when he’s faced in a dilemma like this. I will not defend my actions for they were wrong and I sincerely apologize. I talked to my parents for a good 2 hours and nothing has really changed except for the fact that i will probably not attend Brown next year. I will contact Brown’s career department and they will, hopefully, help me, even though I’m not a student, but an accepted one. If I can prove to my parents that I can pay off 200,000 dollars of loans in 15 years after graduation from grad school, I can go. I again really do apologize for what i said about my parents. I just felt my dream slipping through my fingers after being accepted. </p>
<p>Today was not a very good day to say the least. It was exhausting mentally and emotionally.</p>
<p>You are welcome to listen to Melody call me full of …it. We’re going to agree to disagree. A “professional” education WILL earn more dollars for you. Maybe not on day 1…but in the end. </p>
<p>That does NOT mean anyone should force you into a profession in which you don’t want to go. I don’t think that’s what they’re saying. They just understand what the education is for, and they’re saying a quarter of a million dollar debt is NOT something that you can handle-especially for an undergrad education. Search all over CC and you will find this same thing repeated again and again and again. Unless parents are paying the full monty…NO time is a good time to get into that much debt for undergrad…THIS time it is not either. I’m not going to give any hint of salary but I will tell you that any child and all colleges will believe I can pay the full fare for my child. I cannot. WE know what we can pay. It’s not selfishness or stinginess. I brought my child up since day one alone. And I’ve known VERY slim times, and better times. I know my future earning potential, my savings situation, my expenditures. I’ve given her every thing I possibly could, and given up everthing in my life for her. But it would be a foolish choice indeed, to go into this kind of debt. I TOTALLY understand how you feel. She feels the same (different college). But know that you are SURROUNDED by kids in the same boat. Most never even allowed themselves to dream of an education in this league, others’ hopes have been dashed. Lots and lots and lots have no one paying anything for them and they’re at community college. Highly qualified students like my D are at state Unis. Everyone is moving backward right now and it is a very difficult situation to be in. But keep it in perspective and understand that you are not in this situation alone, and others in the world have much bigger problems. You’ll be sad, devastated even. For awhile. Then man up and get on with your education. </p>
<p>Bottom line - NO ONE should take on debt like this at your age. Go make a budget on what you think you’ll earn just out of school. Then calculate this loan (and I can tell you I have a $200,000 mortgage and it’s $1400 a month for 30 years!). And SEE how “happy” you’ll be then, versus selecting another school and being debt free. Sometimes the smart decision can be very very hard. Good luck.</p>
<p>Thanks R124687.I appreciate it. I definitely will go to graduate school: Brown or not. I’m aware of that debt and, hopefully, won’t come to that. As of now, I think that it’s completely on the fence. I withdrew my UF application, but was accepted to the FSU honors college. I need to send in another app for the honors college on the 10th. I’m still on the fence, but we’ll see what happens in the end.</p>
<p>I suspect there is more to this than you’re leading us to believe judging by your first sentence in the OP. Did you miss a deadline for an important scholarship and now your parents feel you have no regard for their “hard earned money”? Remember, you are not owed a paid college education. I suspect they are furious with you for caring so little about their money that you did not even bother to try for the scholarships. I am dealing with the same in my own home and I have made my D apply to the local state U where she will get a full ride–books and all. I am tired of nagging. If she doesn’t get the scholarships after trying that is one thing, but if she misses the deadlines because she was not willing to put forth the effort to try–she is on her own. Deadline tomorrow.</p>
<p>Maybe I’m missing something, but my understanding is that the OP’s sibling is at Brown. OP’s parents are happy to pay, or watch the sibling pay, Brown tuition because the sibling is apparently pursuing a career path that the parents bless. If those are the facts, then I feel sorry for the OP, not the parents.</p>
<p>I stand by my comment. The OP’s brother goes to Brown and they like it. I am sure they would like it for him as well, but he has to realize his intended profession does not allow him to go 200K in debt therefore he needs to do the responsible thing and try for those scholarships. The OP keeps writing about how he is not going to have time to get them done. Why did he wait until the 11th hour to do something so important? I doubt his parents truly want him to reconsider his major, IMO what they want is for the student to be mature and responsible. That is what I think they would say here if they knew this thread was going on…If he is so pressured to get these done in time why is here on CC? Trust me I have been living in this same scene. Get focused on those applications to get some assistance. Don’t miss those deadlines–if it’s not too late already, and your parents will help–that’s what I think.</p>
<p>Try to work on that scholarship and I would suggest you give Brown a try for freshman year and see how everything works out just so won’t have "what if"s in the future. If u’d still be faced with a load of debt after Brown’s aid and the scholarships you had, then just transfer.</p>
<p>If the scholarship is a big one then there’s going to be an administrative gulf between the mail handlers and the application readers. Plus, all of these big scholarships want more applicants so that they can be more selective. Just get the scholarship application in a few days late. and DO NOT call the scholarship people and ask them if you can submit the application late. Just send it in and you will probably be fine.</p>
<p>The difference of a few days is not going to hurt anyone.</p>
<p>okay. Let me post an update because I was just kind of hoping this thread would die lol. So, I somehow miraculously turned in the scholarship on time. In order to go to Brown, I MUST apply to 10 scholarships/week until I exhaust all of them out and more come. So, for now, I should be okay. you guys have no idea how hectic my house was this weekend. literally WW3 at my house lol.</p>
<p>btw, i never wanted to imply that my brother is a favorite or anything if it came out like that. He just has a more financially secure career plan ahead of him than I do.</p>
<p>Keep applying for the scholarships and do what you need to do. But, don’t for one minute let anyone convince you that the career plan that seems to be ahead is actually going to work out. Especially these days, careers are shaky and the whole world is changing. I know several Yale educated lawyers, MBAs and other very well-educated people who are currently out of work. That is just what is happening now. There are no guarantees in life, and as a mom, it is my advice to you and others, including my daughter, to follow your bliss. I know that is not going to make your life at home any easier, but if you do your part in trying to secure financial help vis </p>