parents, ya'll know everything...please help me edit my list!!

Parents Forum
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<p>I posted this thread earlier today in College Search and Selection and I have gotten some helpful responses but the more time I spend on CC the more I come to realize how much more informed the parents are and how much more comprehensive and helpful ya'll's (...what a 'word') advice is. </p>

<p>So right now my list is pretty long. I have decided to apply to 10 schools (I know that's a lot!) but I need advice on what I should cut out or any suggestions for schools I should add.</p>

<p>I only have one safety because I would be truly happy with it and I am already in (Texas top 10% rule).</p>

<p>I'm a really indecisive person, so if you think my list looks like its all over the place...it is. I would rather apply to a bunch of places and then decide if and when I am accepted what kind of school I will truly be happy with.</p>

<p>My list is a little topheavy with reaches, but I think that's OK because I really would be happy with my safety...so I figure there's no harm in trying. While my list does "scream prestige-whore," a lot of it is because Ivies would help me with need-based aid.</p>

<p>A quick overview of my stats:
Hispanic female from Texas
top 2% of class (about 500 kids at public HS)
Natl. Hispanic Merit Scholar, Natl. Merit Commended
SAT: M650 W800 CR800 (2250 composite)
-varsity sport 4 yrs., student body VP, VP of another club, Speech/Debate team with many awards, couple other ECs with a lot of involvement, about 400-500 hrs. of unique community service, plus a job (15 hrs/week)
-essays and recs should be excellent</p>

<p>Safety:
University of Texas- Austin</p>

<p>Reaches/maybe a few slight matches/I don't know how to qualify these:
Amherst
Bucknell
Clemson
Dartmouth
Duke
Harvard
Lehigh
Middlebury
Princeton
Stanford
University of North Carolina- Chapel Hill
USC
UVA
Yale
maybe maybe maybe Notre Dame </p>

<p>Remember that I am aware that my list is all over the place and also that I am OK with it being topheavy with reaches. I need to cut my list down drastically though...my basic requirements for a school are that it has:
-marginal focus on undergrads
-East Coast or California
-social life
-can help me get into a top law school</p>

<p>Note: I CANNOT AFFORD TO VISIT ANY OF THESE PLACES (except UT-Austin). My GC and parents have helped me come to the conclusion that I should wait until I am accepted (on the off-chance that I am) to any of these schools and THEN we will visit. </p>

<p>Any advice or comments are appreciated! Thank you so much in advance.</p>

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<p>Okay. If you did not get into your "dream school" how happy would you be to be attending UT-Austin? If you were very happy, you could drastically prune down your list to include mostly reaches. Harvard Yale, Princeton and Stanford are reaches for everybody. But you do have a good chance everywhere because of your profile. So cut down on those schools you've included without being keen on them.</p>

<p>Next is how important are certain factors to you? For example, Amherst and Dartmouth are quite cold and rather isolated (2 hours each from Boston), in a very small town, as opposed to USC which is in sunny LA. The Boston/Cambridge area is also quite different from suburban Princeton. </p>

<p>What about size? How important is it to you to have close relations with your teachers or to be at schools with graduate programs? Small classes? </p>

<p>Most schools on your list will help you get into a top law school; it will depend on your performance in classes and on your LSAT rather than the school itself (though graduating from Harvard Yale, Princeton or Stanford does help).</p>

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<p>The only thing that I don't like about UT-Austin is that probably 10% of my graduating class will go there. If I do go, I will apply to Plan II (and based on discussions with my GC, I should probably gain acceptance), so I won't be "just a number." </p>

<p>I love Austin. It really is one of the coolest places to live as a college student in my opinion. I would be happy with UT-Austin.</p>

<p>I am applying to schools in crazily different locations (sunny USC and snowy Dartmouth) and sizes (Amherst and UNC) because I haven't really decided what I want in a school, which is why my list is so all over the place.</p>

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<p>Since it sounds as if you would be happy at UT-Austin, you can prune your list by eliminating less selective schools, unless they have something you are really keen on (e.g. sports). Dartmouth and Middlebury are quite similar in terms of location. I'd go with Dart. I'd eliminate Bucknell and Lehigh.</p>

<p>What about finances? You need to look into financially affordable schools. This means either 100% need-based aid or merit aid. Have you calculated your Estimated Family Contribution (EFC)? There is a calculators available on the College Board you can use.</p>

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<p>Double 800s verbal and 640 math? Hmmm ... you don't mention math classes/grades. You want to get out of Texas, right? You want to be East Coast or West Coast, not stuck in the middle? I don't suppose lawyers need to know much math; they can hire it done. You probably deserve some URM consideration, but I hope your GPA/class rigor is good. Yeah, your choices so far are all over the map; as Marite suggested, thinking more about demographics would help you narrow it down. Do you like to party? Enjoy learning? How important is your sport to you? What does your GC think? Your family? Friends? </p>

<p>Any good school, from tiny LAC to UT-Austin can prepare you for law school. Sounds like you have a gift for verbal argument.</p>

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<p>Hey, c'mon, celloguy. Give this young lady a break. She asked for input in a polite and respectful fashion. We should all treat her the same way. It's OK to be unsure what you want when you are 17, especially if you don't have the resources to travel all over to see things for yourself. Don't blame the rosebud for not having the perfume of the rose.</p>

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<p>bookiemom, did I sound disrespectful? Totally unintended. I'm just asking for more input, because I think that will help her narrow her list.</p>

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<p>You did not list SATIIs. Harvard asks for 3 (any) and I believe Princeton, Yale and Stanford also ask for at least 2. Have you taken them?</p>

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<p>Marite is hitting all the nails on the head, J07. First thing you need to do is to see what you will get from financial aid. Too many times, kids think that they are going to get a nice package from a college that guarantees 100% of aid, only to find out that their very average middle class family that has always been on a tight budget has an EFC of say $25-30K. Which means aid in the amount of about $15-20K, sometimes a bulk of it in loans and work study. So you need to figure out what your family need is, by family definition and by EFC and by Profile, as many of these schools tap resources that the FAFSA does not touch.<br>
If you are in a situation where you need and qualilfy by calculators for substancial financial aid, look at the colleges that give generous packages, that are not loan filled. You can get some idea of this through the USN&WR Ultimate guide that gives average breakdowns. If a school is a "dream" school despite info that is unfavorable, leave it on the list because the info is on averages.<br>
The next thing you might want to do is to eliminate those schools where you would not go, should you get accepted to UT. Would you really go to Bucknell, Lehigh or Clemson, all difficult destinations logistically from UT. The charm of the LAC might be a deciding factor over a large school such as Texas, as well as the wintery weather so you may want to keep a couple of those on hand to compare. Also Trinity in Texas is an idea if that is the type of school you like and want to stay in state. You are applying to some high flying schools here so you are going to have to put some time into filling out those apps to put your best foot forward as there are no automatic ins at many of these schools. Also demonstrated interest can be important in some of the colleges listed, and you will have to put some time into letting those schools know your situation, and why you are not visiting along with a good reason why you want to attend the school. If you cannot write a convinciing argument as to why to want to attend such a school, you may want to rethink having it on your list.</p>

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<p>Although the most selective of the schools don't care about demonstrated interest (because their yield is so high, they know a huge % of admitted students will come), I think cptofthehouse has hit upon a good way to narrow down the list:</p>

<p>You will have to write a "why Stanford/Dartmouth/Lehigh...." essay for virtually every school on your list and it should show sufficient in-depth knowledge of the school to show why it is right for you and you are right for it. So, take a stab at that essay for each school ( they can usually be short) - if you can't write a good one/aren't convinced yourself, drop the school.</p>

<p>I wonder if you will enjoy or won't enjoy a geographic area which is vastly different from yours as to culture (leaving aside climate for the moment). Do you care if there is Spanish food/music/radio/TV around? Do you like the idea of being at a school and in an area where your status as a URM is very noticeable? Or would you prefer to be in an environment where diversity reigns?</p>

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<p>Cpt: "Too many times, kids think that they are going to get a nice package from a college that guarantees 100% of aid, only to find out that their very average middle class family that has always been on a tight budget has an EFC of say $25-30K. Which means aid in the amount of about $15-20K, sometimes a bulk of it in loans and work study."</p>

<p>This is soooo true. There is nothing more shocking than finding out that one's EFC is a lot more than what can be afforded, so (higher interest) loans are needed to meet the EFC. THEN, you find out that the college's F/A package includes (maybe) a small grant, work/study and even MORE loans to make ends meet. So.... you didn't "receive" much in "free money" and your undergrad education is going to be paid for mostly by loans. And, then, of course there's grad school.... loans for that, too. If you can, try to minimize loans for undergrad.</p>

<p>OP: You say that you aren't going to visit any schools. Does that mean that even after acceptances come in that you won't visit? Are you just going to arrive in the fall 07 at a school that you've never seen??? Is the reason that you aren't going to visit financial? If your parents can't afford to pay for school visits, how will you fund your visits back home for Tgiving, Christmas, spring break & summer?</p>

<p>BTW... Are you worried that 10% of your current classmates are going to be at UTA and you don't want to see them "all the time"? I doubt you will. UTA is huge and everyone will be scattered -- different classes/buildings/schedules. And... it is nice to occasionally run into a familiar face! Also, won't some of the top 10% be going to Tex A&M??? or elsewhere????</p>

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<p>In terms of financial aid:</p>

<p>I did the Princeton EFC calculator using my family's tax returns from 2005 and my EFC was expected to be about 9k-10k. My dad recently got a new job, so this may go up, but my parents have already explained to me that they are willing to take out heavy loans to finance a private school education. My parents have essentially squandered many opportunities in their lifetimes. My father was the first in his family to attend college and he passed up a full ride to Berkeley because his parents didn't really understand what that meant and were suspicious of the huge amount of money he was being offered. My parents want me to be the first in my extended family on either side to break the mold of settling for what's easy and go beyond a state university.</p>

<p>I'm not visiting for financial reasons, though. My family is not destitute but my parents don't want to spend money on plane tickets to visit schools that are faraway. After I am accepted, on the slight chance that I am, then we will surely visit before I agree to attend.</p>

<p>Lehigh, Bucknell, and Clemson were all schools that I semi-randomly added to my list to make it SLIGHTLY less reach-heavy. While I would be happy at UT, I would like to gain acceptance to at least one other school on my list. </p>

<p>In terms of being far away from my culture...I think this is something that I'm going to have to learn to deal with. My dad is Mexican but my mother is white, so I am not completely alienated in largely-Caucasian cultures, but it will be difficult not having Mexican food everyday and things like that. I'm ready to deal with it though. I want to experience culture other than Texas..."broadening my horizons" if you will.</p>

<p>And to whomever questioned? I am re-taking the SAT in November to pull my math score up. My first time taking it I had not prepped at all, and I literally mean not at all. I have confidence that I can pull my math score up to at least a 700 from a 650, giving me a 2300 composite since most of the schools on my list look at best component. I have not taken SAT IIs yet but I am scheduled to take 3 in October and based on my practice tests I should be OK for scoring at least a 700 on all three of them.</p>

<p>I don't know if I listed this in my original post, but my GPA is a 4.2 weighted (I don't know what it is unweighted) and I am ranked 14 out of 468 taking the absolute hardest courseload possible.</p>

<p>In terms of criteria for a school...I would like a place with a good social life. I don't want to be sitting in my dorm room on a Saturday night looking for things to do. Also, I would like a school where people actually enjoy learning and are intelligent and concerned with the world around them. I'm not sure how anybody will be able to gauge that without actually attending a school, but I figure some parents have children that attend some of the schools on my list. </p>

<p>Thanks for the suggestion of Trinity, I have visited before and for some reason I just don't like it very much.</p>

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<p>I will also add that I am an IB Diploma candidate.</p>

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<p>Would Rice be on your list?</p>

<p>S's roommie is from TX and misses spicy food. He douses hot sauce on everything with sometimes funny results, according to S.</p>

<p>If you like Harvard or Yale, apply SCEA. Also consider applying ED to Princeton. Obviously you can only apply ED or SCEA to one school, so pick your top choice.</p>

<p>At each of the three, there's tons of things to do on campus; you would not run the risk of sitting by yourself with nothing to do. At Harvard, there's lots to do as well off-campus, which means that there are fewer campus-wide events than at some other schools. If you are a keen sports fan, the Ivy League may not be your top choice when compared to Duke or USC or Stanford.</p>

<p>In the NE, being a Hispanic from TX in an IB program will give you a significant advantage. I don't know how that would play in CA schools.</p>

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<p>I would move USC up on your list. But I am partial, since my son is a freshman. Seriously, it has very good Financial Aid packages. If you ever have a chance to visit, you will fall in love with it. Good luck to you, and may you be very happy and successful, wherever you go.</p>

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<p>I would agree that you should eliminate any school that you wouldn't attend over UT Austin, or that is not as good as UT Austin academically. After that, if I were you, I would read about the cultures of the different colleges and see if you want to eliminate any of them on that basis. But after that, especially if you can get a fee waiver on your applications, I wouldn't eliminate any college or university on the list where you think you could be happy just for the sake of having a shorter list. Because most of the colleges on your list are so selective, rejecting many fully qualified applicants for reasons that just can't be predicted, and also because the size of the financial aid packages you're offered may vary considerably, I think you'd be smart to maintain a long list as long as you are able to complete each application very well. Although you won't be able to rank order perfectly, after reading more and perhaps talking more with your GC if she is knowledgable, try to roughtly classify the schools according how much you think you'd like to be there. Then make sure that your top choice applications are completed (although not necessarily sent in since you might come up with something new that you like later in the process) early on, just to be sure you don't run out of steam before you get to a favorite. If you find yourself in the position of having several excellent options with solid financial aid packages, then you can visit and make a more educated decision. Best of luck!</p>

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<p>Hate to add to your list, but since you're keen on the East Coast or California, and since Amherst and Middlebury, excellent LAC's, are on your list, I wondered if you'd considered the Claremont colleges, ourside of Los Angeles. Because a number of small colleges are clustered together in Claremont, sharing a library and other facilities, you have the advantages of a small LAC coupled with the resources you'd associate with a much larger institution. Pomona is the most demanding and rigorous of the group (apart from Harvey Mudd for math/science, which I take it you aren't planning to pursue), but there are several other excellent options there. Pomona has a tradition of need-blind admission, is committed to diversity, and has an extremely good track record with graduate and law school admissions. Take a look online.</p>

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<p>I would agree that you should eliminate any school that you wouldn't attend over UT Austin, or that is not as good as UT Austin academically. After that, if I were you, I would read about the cultures of the different colleges and see if you want to eliminate any of them on that basis. But after that, especially if you can get a fee waiver on your applications, I wouldn't eliminate any college or university on the list where you think you could be happy just for the sake of having a shorter list. Because most of the colleges on your list are so selective, rejecting many fully qualified applicants for reasons that just can't be predicted, and also because the size of the financial aid packages you're offered may vary considerably, I think you'd be smart to maintain a long list as long as you are able to complete each application very well. Although you won't be able to rank order perfectly, after reading more and perhaps talking more with your GC if she is knowledgable, try to roughtly classify the schools according how much you think you'd like to be there. Then make sure that your top choice applications are completed (although not necessarily sent in since you might come up with something new that you like later in the process) early on, just to be sure you don't run out of steam before you get to a favorite. If you find yourself in the position of having several excellent options with solid financial aid packages, then you can visit and make a more educated decision. Best of luck!</p>

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<p>What are your HL subjects? Next, what is your rank within your IB program, and will the other kids be applying to many of the same schools? What will your teacher recs say about you?</p>

<p>You haven't yet answered the city vs rural question..thoughts? And what EC's are you hoping to pursue in college?</p>

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<p>I am testing HL in English, History, and Spanish. My school doesn't rank within the IB program...I am ranked against the entire senior class (14 out of 468 as of August 2006, but that should go up maybe one or two spots), but within the IB program we don't receive ranks.</p>

<p>My high school has never sent more than 5 students per graduating class to a top 15 school. Out of the class of '06, two students gained admissions to Harvard, one to Dartmouth, and one to Columbia. Very few even bother applying to Ivies or highly selective schools. The majority of the senior class who is attending college will attend a state school or my community college. </p>

<p>Out of the 24 of us in the IB Diploma program, I would say that probably 8 of us will even apply to top-15 schools seriously. Probably 4 or 5 will apply to Princeton and Harvard, a few people will apply to Penn (I'm not applying there though, so it doesn't really matter) and then some people who are not in the IB Diploma program will apply to Ivies "just because." </p>

<p>The reason I have not answered the city/rural question is because I enjoy both for different reasons. I don't want to choose between city and rural when mailing out applications and then decide in April that I really would have preferred to be living out in the country someplace. That's why schools like USC and Dartmouth are on my list...I'd like to have a spectrum.</p>

<p>I will probably pursue Student Government and Debate in college, but they won't be my defining factor for choosing a college. I am only truly competitive in swimming in one event and I don't want to swim in college except for intramurals or club swimming, which I do plan on doing. </p>

<p>My teacher recommendations will be great, hopefully. My AP/IB English teacher from last year is writing me one. She knows how badly I want to break the mold of settling for what's easy and shoot for a top-notch school. English is my best subject and I received excellent grades in her class, I was active in class discussion and debate, and she and I were and still are very close and have discussed my "future" and things extensively. She would love nothing more than to see me get accepted to an Ivy League school and she will put her heart into a recommendation for me. My AP/IB Bio II teacher is also writing me a letter of recommendation and although I haven't known her for very long (I've only had her as a teacher for 6 weeks), we plan on having a few "conferences" so that she can get to know me better as a person. Thus far she has privately communicated to me that she is impressed with my intelligence and work ethic and that she knows that I take great pride in my work. She thinks I am a complete overachiever...but I guess that's not always a bad thing. Since she doesn't know me very well, I have decided to submit a supplemental letter of recommendation and I am deciding between 2 teachers for that one: my debate coach of 3 years who also taught me English freshman year or my Theory of Knowledge teacher who taught me IB Psychology last year and who knows very well how I think, how I perceive the world around me and what I aspire to be.</p>