Big part of the reason he was accepted by Harvard in the first place was his political activism and perceived “leadership” quality. When that disappears, it’s only logical to rescind the acceptance. For an opportunist, what goes around comes around.
We don’t know it was his “perceived leadership quality.” We don’t know how he presented in his app. But had he claimed hate comments, you can bet they wouldn’t see that as leadership.
It doesnt matter if someone thinks another college “should” take him. This is about H rescinding.
@DeepBlue86 before the concerns about disruption among others, there would be concerns about this particular individual and whether he, himself, matches the core traits H wants to build into their class. Or whether he is a loose cannon, in the first place.
That includes maturity, a sense of when restraint is expected, having mature judgment, kind concern for others, and more. It doesn’t matter if anyone can cite some kid they know who didn’t have that and got in/stayed in.
Folks, this isn’t about his gun advocacy. That potentially adds to campus “discussion,” when done respectfully. The issue is his repeated hate comments, what they show.
Harvard isn’t summer camp in thinking skills. Tell me why they should want a kid who spews hatred, unfiltered. What campus discussion enhancing attribute is that? He didn’t write a satisfactory apology, with “show, not just tell.” And he blamed his actions on, “…private among equally immature high school students.”
None of this is the level of thinking, maturity, or self persective a tippy top expects. And screens for. Remember, this is not an isolated incident.
Nor is this about whether you were half baked. That’s not this case. It’s not an attribute a tippy top looks for. Accidentally doing something or other is one thing, with a proper explanation, etc. Repeated is a red flag.
That’s the problem. To some they show he’s the next Grand Dragon. To some, everything you say, you believe deep into your heart. To others he’s just a “dumb kid” who said something stupid in a private exercise. To others, you can say things to be an idiot and not necessarily believe them.
Now where’s my pitchfork?
I remember being less than a quarter-baked teenager. I did A LOT of stupid things. I mean A LOT. I still do. 
BUT, I NEVER said the N word nor did I say to kill people. And neither do my kids either.
As for being ACTUALLY truly Jewish, I kinda doubt it. Assuming his mom was Jewish and he actually had a Bar Mitzvah, then he certainly ain’t observing the Torah. His parents should be ashamed of themselves.
I think you’re saying the same thing I am, @lookingforward, just in a way that renders it less obvious how the sausage is made and creates a sense that there’s an ineffable, Harvard-worthy quality that I don’t think comports with the facts.
I would submit that the only thing everyone has in common at Harvard is that they can all do the work needed to graduate. The “core traits Harvard wants to build into their class” are that you’re really valuable to Harvard as a member of its community for any of a thousand reasons and combinations of reasons; that’s why they chose you out of over 40,000 applicants. Everyone who’s admitted has a unique collection of attributes that makes them appealing to Harvard, and each person was admitted holistically, as an individual who brings certain specific, valued things to the party and, critically, whose perceived liabilities are small enough not to keep them out of the club.
Anyone who’s spent any time at Harvard (and any of its peers, to be clear), knows that there are a certain number (actually, plenty) of kids who are obnoxious jerks and loose cannons, and who the admissions office had a reasonable idea would be so when they were admitted; their other attributes outweighed that fact. Get too toxic, though, and however valuable you are in other ways will matter less and less (although, as an aside, check out the illuminating stories about Meg Whitman’s sons at Princeton as examples of just how far a Harvard peer will stretch if your family is valuable enough).
Kashuv had some valuable attributes as someone who seemed likely to distinguish himself and make an impact on society, but the liabilities that he was going to bring after his previous writings were disclosed diminished his net value to the point that he was less valuable to Harvard than the person to whom they’re now going to give his spot. That person’s attributes may be completely different from Kashuv’s and benefit Harvard in other ways; with 1,600+ kids in the class, there are many different kinds of usefulness.
But the majority on here think there was no explanation that could EVER be satisfactory, that his words have no explanation, that at 16 he thought through everything he tweeted and is responsible for those words. Forever.
I wish my kids were that perfect. I wish I were that perfect and never said something I regretted, especially things I said when I was 16.
A few years ago, there was a kid who was a member of the KKK because his family were all members and he was raised to hate. His family was the Dukes, as in David Duke. He spent his high school (home schooled) years ranting and raving publicly about all the minority groups, non-Christian religions, foreigners. He was going to be a high official in the KKK too. Then it was time for college. New College of Florida gave him a chance.
He changed. He truly believed all the KKK hatred and teachings but he changed. https://www.heraldtribune.com/news/20181209/why-did-tale-of-reformed-white-supremacist-not-survive-in-sarasota
I don’t think Kyle believes his rantings but no one thinks he can change (or that he has changed) his views. Guess NCF is more progressive than Harvard.
@twoinanddone In my opinion, there truly is no good explanation for what he said. But as I said earlier his explanation was full of excuses and putting the blame on others (it was the company he kept, it was ok since Harvard owned slaves in the 1600’s, etc). There was also the fact that the apology only came after he was faced with his acceptance being rescinded. It’s not like this happened at 16 and he has since spent some time working with Holocaust victims or working as a Big Brother for the Boys and Girls Clubs to try to repent. He issued an apology AFTER he was caught. He reached out to the Office of Diversity AFTER he was caught.As I said earlier, my kids are not perfect but they sure as heck know not to use language like this.This was a kid who grew up in a Jewish household, not a house of Nazi sympathizers. He has family that was killed in the Holocaust. He knew how terrible his words were and he still found it “funny” to say them.
For those so sympathetic to Kashuv or those who think Harvard made the wrong decision, do you think his apology was contrite, remorseful, sincere? Do you think he handled the aftermath of being rescinded well, maturely?
IMO, his reaction confirms that the Harvard decision makers made the correct choice for the school’s best interests. Put yourself in their shoes and ask if you’d make a different decision given what is at stake.
People can be bigoted against their own group or heritage. Also, is it known for certain that he is Jewish?
Well, as has been noted here many times, NCF (like every other public institution) is constitutionally prohibited to exclude a student based on the student’s speech. Maybe that makes all of them more progressive than Harvard, maybe not.
Although Harvard is clearly not bound by any constitutional limitation on punishing speech, it is equally clear that it has repeatedly taken a position with respect to admissions that certain types of speech can and should be penalized by the university. And that does not jibe well with the free-speech absolutism some people espouse. No one on either side of that debate believes that it’s perfectly OK for a Kyle Kashuv to do what he did at 16. The free-speech absolutists will say that the remedy for bad speech is more good speech, and they can point to Derek Black as a win for their side. But there is plenty of evidence to the contrary as well, and even the article linked in #225 concludes that the effort to expel Black may have contributed to his change of heart as much as any discussions did.
Also, the point made by Hanna and many others remains valid: It’s nice and all to believe in redemption and giving the Kyle Kashuvs of the world a second chance – I think almost all of us believe that – but it’s maybe not so nice to put a disproportionate part of the cost of that on the backs of minority students who struggle with grand and petit racism day in and day out. For them, a mere slap on the wrist of someone who has publicly been a racist bully represents a slap in their collective face, and not a small one. NCF didn’t have the luxury of taking that into account, and perhaps had less of an ongoing problem to begin with involving Black students being told that they didn’t belong and wouldn’t be accorded the respect generally given students of other races.
Yes. He said he is Jewish in a tweet from 6/3/2018
He also said he is jewish and mentioned praying weekly on that Fox interview a few days back.
@twoinanddone, your argument proves too much. You say that Harvard should admit Kashuv because maybe he’ll change. After all, some teenage racists disavow their previous racism.
But this proves too much. If Harvard should admit teenage racists because they might change, then it should also admit bright slackers because they might change. But no, it doesn’t work like that.Harvard judges you by your high school years. One slip, and you’re out of the running.
Other schools are more forgiving. Harvard doesn’t have to be forgiving.
Do you think that Harvard would have admitted Kashuv if they’d known about the racist slurs? Do you really think they should have admitted Kashuv if they knew about the racist slurs, on the ground that some racists change? Is it your position that a history of issuing racist slurs should make no difference in college admissions?
@twoinanddone, did you read Hanna Stotland’s commentary, cited several pages back?
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/06/kyle-kashuv-harvard-admission-redemption.html
New College of Florida is a public school and couldn’t legally bar Derek Black despite his KKK for kids radio show and other repulsive speech based behavior. He still believed all that when he began attending and continued to engage in vast amounts of hate speech. As you note though he went somewhere where he was exposed to other people and thoughts. And this was a wonderful thing. Probably because he was A guy who had a personality that drew him to like people he met and over time he genuinely changed. . It’s really a remarkable story. By the way, the Dukes aren’t exactly his family. But his godfather is David Duke and his mother was married to Duke then married Dukes best friend ( wow these people are really tolerant of their exes while being intolerant of vast swaths of people). I agree that Kyle is nothing like this kid and doesn’t have the excuses he did for his behavior.
The story of Derek Black is extraordinary—meaning outside of the ordinary—and his story is well worth knowing and discussing. Growth like his is not, however, a path that can be predicted for everyone who uses incendiary hate speech as a young person.
“Everyone who’s admitted has a unique collection of attributes that makes them appealing to Harvard, and each person was admitted holistically, as an individual who brings certain specific, valued things to the party and, critically, whose perceived liabilities are small enough not to keep them out of the club.”
@DeepBlue86 Not everyone is expected to be completely unique, there are common traits they do seek. It’s not just about standing out as different. If you come to doubt a kid’s core thinking and decision-making skills, that’s no small problem.
(Granted, the CA is imperfect as a vehicle.)
Harvard’s decision could be purely from a risk-management perspective. If someone has said, “kill the Jews” publicly, and Harvard knows about it, and then that student goes to Harvard and kills Jews, wouldn’t Harvard be exposed to liability? I’m sure they consulted with their risk-management people.
Thing is, Harvard’s been bitten before, by app scammers, reckless social media comments, etc… They are very cautious when they recognize a legit issue. Yes, I’m sure they spoke with RM and several of their attorneys. I’d bet they have a behind-the-scene detailed policy in place.
I don’t necessarily think this kid will harm others physically. Not as the main issue here. But what I call the unfiltered spewing of hate is contrary to the sort of thinking, maturity, good will toward others, openness, and more, that a top private college can expect. They set their bar.
The NCF student was raised in a closed environment that revolved around white supremacy. He didn’t know anything else. When he learned other ways of thinking, he changed. In contrast, Kashuv was raised in a normative community and attended public schools. He CHOSE hate. He was not homeschooled and raised in an environment in which he knew of no alternative.