Part VI: Ignore the Rankings and Focus on the Data (Selectivity)

College Search & Selection
1

<p>In continuing the series of threads that focus on individual slices of data, here is the relevant information that many will use to evaluate a school's selectivity. Sorting has been done according to the percentage of students that graduated from high school in the Top 10% of their class. </p>

<p>Rank , % of Top 10% students , Mid-point of 25/75 SAT range , Mid-point of 25/75 ACT range , Acceptance Rate , School</p>

<p>1 , 99% , 1325 , na , 24% , UC Berkeley
1 , 99% , 1250 , 26 , 49% , UCSD
3 , 97% , 1470 , 32 , 13% , MIT
3 , 97% , 1295 , 27 , 26% , UCLA
5 , 96% , 1200 , 25 , 53% , UC Santa Barbara
5 , 96% , 1185 , na , 60% , UC Irvine
7 , 95% , 1490 , 32.5 , 9% , Harvard
7 , 95% , 1485 , na , 9% , Yale
7 , 95% , 1450 , 31.5 , 21% , Wash U
7 , 95% , 1155 , na , 68% , UC Davis
11 , 94% , 1480 , 32 , 10% , Princeton
11 , 94% , 1430 , 31 , 18% , U Penn
13 , 93% , 1435 , 30.5 , 12% , Columbia
14 , 91% , 1440 , 30 , 14% , Brown
15 , 90% , 1450 , 31 , 16% , Dartmouth
15 , 90% , 1315 , 29 , 47% , U Michigan
15 , 90% , 1310 , na , 39% , Lehigh
18 , 89% , 1440 , 30.5 , 11% , Stanford
18 , 89% , 1445 , 31.5 , 23% , Duke
20 , 88% , 1520 , na , 17% , Caltech
20 , 88% , 1385 , 31 , 32% , Emory
20 , 88% , 1325 , 28.5 , 37% , U Virginia
23 , 87% , 1435 , 32 , 24% , Rice
24 , 86% , 1370 , 30 , 25% , USC
25 , 84% , 1385 , 30 , 25% , Cornell
25 , 84% , 1395 , 31.5 , 27% , Notre Dame
25 , 84% , 1390 , 29.5 , 22% , Georgetown
25 , 84% , 1190 , 25.5 , 68% , U Washington
29 , 83% , 1410 , 31 , 30% , Northwestern
29 , 83% , 1410 , 30.5 , 27% , Tufts
31 , 80% , 1425 , 30.5 , 38% , U Chicago
31 , 80% , 1390 , 30 , 27% , Johns Hopkins
31 , 80% , 1340 , 29.5 , 32% , W&M
31 , 80% , 1335 , na , 29% , Boston Coll
35 , 79% , 1375 , 30 , 34% , Vanderbilt
36 , 76% , 1295 , 27.5 , 34% , U North Carolina
36 , 76% , 1360 , 29.5 , 36% , Brandeis
38 , 75% , 1395 , 30 , 34% , Carnegie Mellon
39 , 72% , 1250 , 26.5 , 48% , U Florida
40 , 70% , 1325 , 28.5 , 45% , U Rochester
40 , 70% , 1245 , 26 , 49% , U Texas
42 , 68% , 1330 , 28.5 , 67% , Case Western
43 , 67% , 1310 , 29 , 36% , NYU
44 , 66% , 1315 , 28 , 69% , Georgia Tech
45 , 63% , 1320 , na , 43% , Wake Forest
46 , 62% , 1320 , 27 , 67% , Rensselaer
47 , 58% , 1280 , 28 , 58% , U Wisconsin
48 , 55% , 1290 , 27.5 , 65% , U Illinois
49 , 51% , 1323 , 29 , 38% , Tulane
50 , 45% , 1225 , 26.5 , 51% , Syracuse
51 , 37% , 1180 , na , 58% , Penn State</p>

2

<p>Why did you arrange this based on high school rank which has huge variations between high schools instead of SAT scores (which is a uniform measure) or acceptance rate?</p>

3

<p>Why? Because the public school partisans always complain that they don’t get enough credit for the quality of their student bodies and this sorting places them in a better light. </p>

<p>If you like, I can repost in a different sorting. What would you like?</p>

4

<p>Yeah, ignore the high school rank because private schools emply a more holistic admissions process than the publics. Also, most private school kids take more challenging courses in HS than public school kids. This is important to consider because private schools look at “Strength of Curriculum” a lot more closely than public schools. In the UC system, I believe that a student won’t even be accepted to some of the UCs if he/she isn’t in the top 10% of a graduating class. Ridiculous.</p>

5

<p>I’d say the 75th percentile of SAT scores will give the best assessment for objective strength of student body. A larger undergrad class will have a larger range of the middle 50% SAT and at big sports schools athletes can drag down scores. Imagine how much higher Cal’s average SAT score would be if you took out the football team?</p>

6

<p>I doubt that Cal’s football team of 85 players makes much of a dent in Cal’s SAT numbers for a student population of 23,000+. LOL.</p>

<p>Anyway, here is the data for 75th percentile:</p>

<p>Rank , SAT 75th Percentile , ACT 75th Percentile , College</p>

<p>1 , 1590 , 34 , Princeton
1 , 1590 , 34 , Harvard
3 , 1580 , na , Yale
4 , 1570 , na , Caltech
5 , 1560 , 34 , MIT
6 , 1550 , 34 , Dartmouth
7 , 1540 , 33 , Stanford
7 , 1540 , 34 , Duke
7 , 1540 , 33 , Columbia
7 , 1540 , 34 , Rice
11 , 1530 , 33 , U Penn
11 , 1530 , 33 , U Chicago
11 , 1530 , 33 , Wash U
11 , 1530 , 33 , Brown
15 , 1500 , 33 , Northwestern
15 , 1500 , 33 , Notre Dame
17 , 1490 , 32 , Cornell
17 , 1490 , 32 , Johns Hopkins
17 , 1490 , 32 , Carnegie Mellon
17 , 1490 , 32 , Georgetown
21 , 1480 , 32 , Tufts
22 , 1470 , 33 , Emory
22 , 1470 , 32 , Vanderbilt
24 , 1460 , 32 , USC
24 , 1460 , 32 , Brandeis
26 , 1450 , na , UC Berkeley
27 , 1440 , 31 , W&M
28 , 1430 , 31 , U Virginia
28 , 1430 , 31 , Case Western
30 , 1425 , 31 , Tulane
31 , 1420 , 31 , U Michigan
31 , 1420 , 30 , U Rochester
31 , 1420 , na , Boston Coll
31 , 1420 , 29 , Rensselaer
35 , 1410 , 30 , UCLA
35 , 1410 , 31 , NYU
35 , 1410 , 30 , U Illinois
38 , 1400 , na , Wake Forest
38 , 1400 , na , Lehigh
38 , 1400 , 30 , Georgia Tech
41 , 1390 , 30 , U North Carolina
42 , 1380 , 30 , U Wisconsin
43 , 1370 , 29 , U Texas
44 , 1360 , 29 , UCSD
44 , 1360 , 29 , U Florida
46 , 1330 , 29 , Syracuse
47 , 1310 , 28 , U Washington
47 , 1310 , 28 , UC Santa Barbara
49 , 1290 , na , UC Irvine
50 , 1280 , na , UC Davis
50 , 1280 , na , Penn State</p>

7

<p>If you look at the top 75% score at top publics and lower ranked private schools, you see that they’re around the median SAT scores at top privates helping assert that the strong students at lower ranked schools are just as strong as the average student at top ranked schools.</p>

8

<p>

</p>

<p>Why reinvent the wheel? USnews does this for you and the online service allows for a quick sorting according to selectivity. </p>

<p>The top 10% is a misleading figure as it includes school that admit based on small out of state enrollment and a restricted pool, Of course, for many schools it is also the PA’s best sidekick to accomplish the goals of Morse and his friends who need to “level” the playing field.</p>

9

<p>Hawette, I can understand why you would break down the components of the Selectivity ranking, but why have you not first listed the universities in terms of overall selectivity?</p>

<ol>
<li>Harvard University</li>
<li>Yale University</li>
<li>Massachusetts Institute of Technology</li>
<li>Princeton University</li>
<li>Columbia University</li>
<li>Washington University-St Louis</li>
<li>Brown University</li>
<li>California Institute of Technology</li>
<li>Dartmouth College</li>
<li>Stanford University</li>
<li>University of Pennsylvania</li>
<li>Duke University</li>
<li>Rice University</li>
<li>University of California-Berkeley</li>
<li>Cornell University</li>
<li>Emory University</li>
<li>Tufts University</li>
<li>University of Notre Dame</li>
<li>Georgetown University</li>
<li>Northwestern University</li>
<li>University of California-Los Angeles</li>
<li>University of Southern California</li>
<li>University of Michigan-Ann Arbor</li>
<li>Johns Hopkins University</li>
<li>University of Chicago
…</li>
</ol>

10

<p>

Oh please, you conveniently forgot private schools practice AA and admit URMs. That’s why they have lower % of students in the top 10%.</p>

11

<p>Or they have more people who aren’t ranked at all? Students from schools with no rank?</p>

<p>How does that work?</p>

<p>You really think that URM’s are making that big of a dent?</p>

12

<p>How about (1600 - Median SAT) * Acceptance Rate?</p>

13

<p>On what basis is UMichigan more selective than JHU or UChicago?</p>

14

<p>Alexandre,
It is exactly because people object to the sub-weights that USNWR uses that I did not accept their selectivity ranks. Many people believe that certain segments should be weighted more than others. My objective here is to provide the data, ignore the USNWR rankings, and let the reader make his/her own interpretations.</p>

<p>xiggi,
You’re right about the USNWR data, but I’m providing this for those without access to this online feature as well as maybe sometimes providing some non-USNWR data.</p>

<p>In that vein, in evaluating relative strength via standardized test scores, using the 25/75 data may not be the best way to compare schools. Instead, look at the data below that shows the percentage of students that score above a threshold level by test (SAT CR, SAT Math, ACT). I think that this might be a more precise way of measuring the strength of the student body at a college, albeit using the blunt instrument of comparing via standardized test scores. </p>

<p>Rank , % of students scoring 700+ on SAT Critical Reading , School</p>

<p>1 , 77% , Yale
1 , 77% , Cal Tech
3 , 73% , Princeton
4 , 68% , MIT
5 , 67% , Columbia
6 , 65% , Dartmouth
7 , 64% , Brown
8 , 63% , Duke
9 , 61% , Stanford
9 , 61% , U Chicago
11 , 60% , Wash U StL
12 , 57% , Rice
13 , 56% , Tufts
14 , 54% , U Penn
15 , 53% , Northwestern
15 , 53% , Georgetown
17 , 48% , Emory
18 , 47% , Notre Dame
19 , 46% , Vanderbilt
20 , 45% , W & M
21 , 42% , Cornell
22 , 41% , Brandeis
23 , 40% , J Hopkins
24 , 36% , USC
24 , 36% , Tulane
26 , 33% , Carnegie Mellon
27 , 32% , UC Berkeley
28 , 30% , NYU
29 , 29% , U Virginia
29 , 29% , Wake Forest
31 , 27% , U North Carolina
32 , 26% , Boston College
33 , 25% , Case Western
34 , 24% , U Rochester
35 , 23% , U Michigan
36 , 21% , UCLA
37 , 19% , Rensselaer
38 , 18% , Georgia Tech
39 , 15% , U Wisconsin
39 , 15% , U Illinois UC
39 , 15% , U Florida
42 , 14% , U Texas
43 , 13% , Lehigh
43 , 13% , UCSD
45 , 11% , U Washington
46 , 10% , UC S Barbara
47 , 9% , Syracuse
48 , 8% , UC Davis
48 , 8% , UC Irvine
48 , 8% , Penn State
na , na , Harvard</p>

15

<p>[Graphic:</a> How To Get Into A School Like Amherst](<a href=“http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_09/b3973092.htm]Graphic:”>http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_09/b3973092.htm)</p>

<p>If 15% of the class does not break top 10%, the link above will tell you why. The admits that fall out of the top 10% are athletes and URMs.</p>

16

<p>For SAT Math</p>

<p>Rank , % of students scoring 700+ on Math , School</p>

<p>1 , 96% , Cal Tech
2 , 92% , MIT
3 , 77% , Yale
4 , 76% , Wash U StL
5 , 75% , Princeton
6 , 71% , Carnegie Mellon
7 , 69% , U Penn
8 , 68% , Duke
9 , 67% , Stanford
10 , 66% , Brown
11 , 65% , Dartmouth
12 , 63% , Northwestern
12 , 63% , Rice
14 , 60% , Columbia
14 , 60% , J Hopkins
16 , 59% , Cornell
16 , 59% , Tufts
18 , 57% , U Chicago
18 , 57% , Notre Dame
20 , 56% , Emory
21 , 54% , Vanderbilt
22 , 51% , Georgetown
23 , 50% , USC
24 , 48% , Rensselaer
25 , 46% , UC Berkeley
26 , 45% , U Illinois UC
27 , 44% , Georgia Tech
27 , 44% , Case Western
29 , 43% , U Michigan
29 , 43% , Brandeis
31 , 40% , Boston College
32 , 39% , UCLA
32 , 39% , Lehigh
34 , 38% , Wake Forest
35 , 37% , U Virginia
36 , 36% , NYU
37 , 32% , W & M
38 , 31% , U Rochester
38 , 31% , U Wisconsin
40 , 30% , UCSD
41 , 29% , U North Carolina
42 , 25% , U Texas
43 , 23% , Tulane
44 , 21% , U Florida
45 , 19% , UC Irvine
46 , 18% , U Washington
47 , 17% , UC Davis
48 , 15% , UC S Barbara
48 , 15% , Penn State
50 , 14% , Syracuse
na , na , Harvard</p>

17

<p>For ACT scoring:</p>

<p>Rank , % of students scoring 700+ on ACT , School</p>

<p>1 , 88% , MIT
2 , 82% , Princeton
3 , 81% , Wash U StL
4 , 80% , Notre Dame
5 , 70% , Stanford
5 , 70% , Emory
5 , 70% , Vanderbilt
8 , 69% , Northwestern
9 , 68% , Rice
10 , 67% , Dartmouth
10 , 67% , Tufts
12 , 66% , U Penn
13 , 64% , U Chicago
14 , 61% , Duke
15 , 59% , J Hopkins
16 , 58% , Georgetown
17 , 57% , Cornell
18 , 55% , Columbia
18 , 55% , Brown
20 , 54% , Carnegie Mellon
20 , 54% , USC
22 , 53% , NYU
23 , 49% , Brandeis
24 , 46% , W & M
25 , 43% , U Michigan
25 , 43% , Case Western
27 , 35% , U North Carolina
28 , 33% , U Rochester
28 , 33% , U Illinois UC
30 , 30% , Georgia Tech
31 , 29% , UCLA
32 , 26% , U Wisconsin
33 , 24% , U Florida
34 , 23% , U Texas
35 , 19% , UCSD
36 , 17% , U Washington
37 , 16% , Rensselaer
38 , 9% , UC Davis
na , na , Harvard
na , na , Yale
na , na , Cal Tech
na , na , UC Berkeley
na , na , U Virginia
na , na , Wake Forest
na , na , Lehigh
na , na , Boston College
na , na , UC S Barbara
na , na , UC Irvine
na , na , Penn State
na , na , Syracuse
na , na , Tulane</p>

18

<p>Some minorities some athletes? </p>

<p>You didn’t say athletes. Maybe you’re right. Maybe not. </p>

<p>That’s still poor evidence to form said conclusion.</p>

<p>

</p>

19

<p>What is the ACT cutoff? you typed 700.</p>

20

<p>

Oh please, don’t be so presumptuous. I wasn’t even in the top 20% of my HS class I don’t think and I still got into Duke, Cornell and Michigan Honors as well as being waitlisted by Penn Wharton, Columbia CAS and UChicago. I’m neither a URM or an athlete. There are plenty of kids like me out there who compensate their lower grades with high test scores, strong extracurricular involvement, good essays, etc. I’m convinced I wouldn’t have even gotten into Michigan if my ACT score was too much lower, even though I took a much more challenging curriculum than the vast majority of my peers and my school had great grade inflation.</p>