Paying for Ivy League?

Paying for College
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<p>I'm in sort of a sticky situation. My parents made the decision early on that the most they would pay per year for my college education was 20k. Obviously, that is only a fraction of the cost that an Ivy League education costs. We did a preread and our EFC was right around 35-38k.</p>

<p>Now, my parents are trying to get me to go to our state school, which is average at best, by offering to buy me a car and pay for off-campus housing as an upperclassman.</p>

<p>I guess I have two questions:</p>

<p>Is it worth it to graduate in debt (around 50k) from an Ivy over graduating debt free from an average school?</p>

<p>And does anyone know of any scholarships that someone with good stats can qualify for? I have a lot of leadership, academic, and athletic accomplishments that I feel should qualify me for some sort of scholarship. I realize it is vague to say 'good stats' so if you need more info, feel free to ask. </p>

<p>I've heard some buzz about Ivy league offering alumni scholarships that are merit scolarships but aren't directly from the school, so they are still legit.. any truth to that?</p>

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<p>You’ll have more than $50,000 in debt. Even if your EFC is $35,000 a year, that will leave you with $60,000 to make up in your EFC - if it’s $38,000 a year, then that leaves you with $72,000. And that’s not including the loan component of your aid package. I believe most Ivies still have a loan component, which often requires you to take out the max in Stafford loans over your four years. That’s another $27,000 right there. Your debt could very well be over $90,000 after you graduate.</p>

<p>As to whether it’s “worth it,” that depends entirely on you, what you plan to do after graduation, and what is of value to you. All in all, if you are a driven, motivated, ambitious, and high-achieving student, where you go to school won’t really matter much in the long run. However, I graduated from college a year and a half ago (a mid-range college) and have seen the power that a name brand can have, too. It’s not that it doesn’t matter - I don’t think it matters as much as people think it does, but it does count for something. Like I said, I went to a mid-range college and I go to an Ivy League graduate school.</p>

<p>If you want to go to graduate or professional school your undergrad doesn’t really matter. If you want the freedom to pick any kind of job you want after graduation, and don’t want to worry about a $1,000 per month loan payment in your first 10 years after graduation (if you graduate with $90K, that’s how much it will be - even with $50K it’s almost $600/month), then it may be more worth it to go debt-free. If you want to work on Wall Street or some other kind of industry where the name recognition of your undergrad degree counts (there aren’t many - just the tippy top), then you might want to go for the debt. If you want feel a chill every time you remind yourself about where you go to school, and enjoy all the resources a bigger name school has to offer, then you might choose the debt.</p>

<p>I must say, I love my Ivy League graduate school and it would’ve been a dream to go here for undergrad. Not that I mind the way it worked out - I graduated with minimal debt because I was in the same dilemma as you, and I chose the scholarship from the mid-level school - it’s like #66 or so on the U.S. News ranking. Not bad at all, and I will definitely be able to pay off my debt in 5 years or less even if I get a mediocre-paying job.</p>

<p>The application season has barely begun. Apply first and apply widely - to your state school, to the dream Ivies, and to some schools in between where you may be able to get substantial merit aid. Look for colleges at which you are in the top 10-20% of their applicants and that give good merit scholarships. This is a decision that can more easily be made in April when you have all the facts in front of you, including aid packages.</p>

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<p>It looks to me as though you will graduate with $120K of debt (50K/yr cost of attendance vs. the 20K/yr parents will pay, times 4 yrs). That is not worth it. You get from college what you put into it. If your record puts you in the running for the Ivies then there are many very good schools which might offer scholarships. Look at the stickies at the top of this forum for listings.</p>

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<p>They can be but they can also affect the package that you get from the school. These are not just at ivys.</p>

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<p>Here is a big question. How will you GET loans (for whatever amount)? You will not be eligible for loans in your own name…without a cosigner…except for the Stafford loans. Any additional loans would either need to be taken out by your family or YOU would need a cosigner for those loans.</p>

<p>You don’t say what your state university is. Most state flagship universities are fine. They have a wealth of majors, and many also have honors college programs for students with high stats and such. You can always apply to and attend an Ivy for grad school.</p>

<p>As you know…the Ivy League schools do not award merit scholarships.</p>

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<p>If OP’s EFC is $35K, and his parents pay $20K, then he is left with $15K per year, or $60K total.</p>

<p>You say your parents will pay for a car and upperclass housing at a state school. What do you think that would be worth, $20K or so? You could ask them to apply that to Ivy tuition instead, leaving you with $40K debt. While still a lot, it is probably do-able if you really want it and are pursuing a high-paying career. Working summers and part-time during the school year could chip off another $10K or more by the time you graduate.</p>

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<p>Only if the school gives FA all in grants, which they don’t. There will be WS, student contribution and most likely loans, unless he gets into HYP.</p>

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<p>Even with HYP it’s only loan-free if your family makes like $80,000 or less (in some cases $60,000). If her EFC is $38,000, then her family very likely makes more than $80,000 a year.</p>

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<p>I’d negotiate with your parents as Bay suggests. Yes, some loans, IMO, would be well worth attending an ivy over an average school.</p>

<p>No, there are no merit scholarships at ivies coming from anywhere. And outside scholarships will first reduce your need. If there were merit at ivies, imagine what it would take to get it as they routinely reject 4.0/2250s.</p>

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<p>We were asked where we wanted to apply D’s outside scholarship: 1-- student’s contributions 2-- work study expectation 3-- loans (which were waived due to our low income anyway). So, the outside scholarship reduced our expected family contribution, and added to the total financial aid package.</p>

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<p>“Even with HYP it’s only loan-free if your family makes like $80,000 or less (in some cases $60,000). If her EFC is $38,000, then her family very likely makes more than $80,000 a year.”</p>

<p>^^That is not true, it is loan free for everyone, but the 10% rule only applies to incomes less than $180,000 (for HY, P doesn’t have a cutoff but has similar financial aid)</p>

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<p>franglish, you were very fortunate. In most cases, outside scholarships (even at these tippy top schools) will not reduce the EFC.</p>

<p>With an EFC of $35K, this student’s family income is probably in the $90K to $140K range. Typically EFC is about 1/4 to 1/3 of the gross annual income. The variation would depend on the assets.</p>

<p>Remember too, that these generous schools DO expect, in most cases, a student contribution and that increases each year. </p>

<p>Again…how I ask…how does this student plan to secure his/her loans?</p>

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<p>My aunt would be my cosigner, I’d be paying the loans off myself but she would be there to support me and help me get the loan since I don’t have a credit score.</p>

<p>I’m confused about how I’d end up in at least 90,000 in debt with an EFC of 35k and my parents paying 20k. Wouldn’t it be 60,000 plus interest? Unless is interest really going to be 30,000?</p>

<p>I’m glad you mentioned loans being a part of the aid package, because that means the financial aid package isn’t really giving me the money, just loaning it. which is stressful.</p>

<p>My in-state school is Ohio State, it’s not a bad school but by no means great.</p>

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<p>OK…not wishing to get into a dispute between the value of OSU and the Ivies…but Ohio State is a terrific school. It is a research university with every possible imaginable major, and plenty of opportunities for the students. If you are a competitive admissions student for the Ivies (don’t know if this is true or not), you would be competitive for OSU’s top scholarships and their honors college.</p>

<p>I have to say…I think Ohio State University IS a GREAT school. </p>

<p>What would make you say it isn’t…except that it’s in YOUR state. The grass seems to always be greener…as they say.</p>

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<p>I agree with Thumper that OSU is a very good school. You should definitely consider that or some other schools that are less difficult to get in.</p>

<p>And you could owe more than the $60K you calculate because (I believe) only HYP don’t offer loans as part of their meeting need [waiting to hear about any other Ivy schools that don’t offer loans]. At the least I know there are some Ivies that do have loans (Cornell for one).</p>

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<p>I don’t believe Dartmouth packages loans for low income students. BUT I’m not sure a student with an EFC of $35,000 would be considered “low income”…I guess that depends on the income.</p>

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<p>Does anyone know how the Non-custodial profile impacts the EFC? Do they calculate it based on the custodial parent and the non-custodial parent and then use the higher EFC? Do they combine both sets of information into one big lump? In that case would they have to consider step-siblings as part of the children in college.</p>

<p>There are many EFC estimators out there but I don’t think I have found one yet that factors in the impact of filling out the CSS Non-custodial parent Profile</p>

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<p>franglish’s DD and my son both attend Brown and have had the same experience. No loans have been offered in my son’s package. Brown’s policy is no loans if income is under $100,000. Under $75,000, there is some other benefit but I forget what it is. My son WAS eligible for loans this semester to cover higher than normal expenses associated with a study abroad program (Brown only covers what it costs to go to Brown so if study abroad’s room/board and travel/personal expenses are higher, they will offer you loans to cover those additional expenses). </p>

<p>Our son used outside scholarships to replace his student contribution and to pay for a computer (they increased his COA that year so didn’t reduce his need/grants). When our kids started, ALL freshman on FA received grants in place of work-study (so freshman could take time to adjust). Not sure if that’s still true. BUT I THINK I read that Brown lets you replace work-study and some other contributions now with outside scholarships (in addition to reducing student contribution). So, if Brown is on your list, apply to outside scholarships that are not need based.</p>

<p>With a high EFC, you might not qualify for the NO loans policy but I THINK I remember reading that Brown limits the amount of loans offered, depending on income. For incomes under $100K, no loans in package. Incomes 100K-125K, the max loan offered is $3000/yr for a total of $12,000. Incomes 125K-150K, the max loan offered is $4000/yr for a total of $16,000. Incomes 150K+, the max loan offered is $5000/yr for a total of $20,000. I would confirm this as my memory may be wrong or the policy may have changed again, but this is pretty good. Keep in mind students are still expected to contribute about $2500/yr from summer earnings and have work-study. BUT outside scholarships can reduce those amounts. Brown also offers grants to replace summer contribution for kids who don’t have summer earnings (free internships, volunteering, etc). I think you have to apply separately for those grants.</p>

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<p>OP…my daughter is in exactly the same boat. And I’m making the same arguments. I NOW have a higher income bracket. But that doesn’t negate the rest of my life where I had nothing. I’m single, “above middle aged”, with no retirement savings yet, etc. So money is EVERYTHING to us.</p>

<p>That said, she does have the stats for a stellar school. But, FAFSA will “think” we have the funds to pay for it. We don’t. I have health issues, I’m self employed and pay all our own health “insurance” plus out of pocket etc etc.</p>

<p>So, THE dilemma. Where is the breaking point for each person? To take out loans? I’m willing to do that. But I’m NOT willing to ruin her future by allowing her to graduate with more debt than she can ever pay off. </p>

<p>Like you (and very nearby!..think west)…we have some fabulous state schools where she would go cheaply, or possibly for free. So here is one of the things I reminded her, and maybe you should think about - for kids at your academic level (obviously high if you’re thinking Ivy): Are you considering graduate school? If you ARE…where will THAT money come from? If you go to undergrad for FREE…then maybe you’ll work summers and save, and/or your parents could contribute to graduate school instead. If you spend EVERYTHING … “and then some”…and want to continue your education…you’re already in a hole that is hard to get out of.</p>

<p>I’m not trying to talk you out of it, just telling you the thoughts running around our house. I KNOW why the “better” schools are more expensive. But they can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. In other words, a “lesser” student who can afford it, will get a great education, that’s for sure. But YOU can use the perfectly fine undergrad education at your fingertips and REALLY excel there. THEN…you’ll have the undergrad stats that maybe you can get a scholarship to grad school too! My neice did this. She went free to our state school, turning down an expensive admit to an Ivy. Then, SOMEHOW, she was admitted to an Ivy for law school, so she had the money to pay for that. She also had a free ride at a neighboring state’s law school…but opted to use the money for this level of education. Just something to consider. Think of the WEIGHT on you when you graduate, versus … “That’s it! I’m FREE and educated and in NO debt. Whoohoo!”. There was a movie called Lions for Lambs. Have you seen it? It’s running around cable right now.</p>

<p>There is an African American and Hispanic student, attending an elite school on scholarship. They opt to join the millitary, and use THAT money to go to grad school. Their thought process is something like “An African American and Hispanic student who went to undergrad for free, were militarily trained, and will come out of grad school with NO debt too?..NO ONE COULD STOP US THEN!”</p>

<p>OK, for those who saw the movie you know it didn’t have a great ending for these characters. But…it was a very far-sighted approach for such young men.</p>

<p>Good luck, whatever you do.</p>

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Does anyone know how the Non-custodial profile impacts the EFC?[/qupote]</p>

<p>At most schools they will expect the same amount of contribution using the same rules as they expect from the custodial parent. They will count all of those in college. Also don’t forget they will look at income/assets of any step parents at most Profile schools.</p>

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<p>Work on her really loving the affordable options. Colleges only care about now. Think about it–they can’t start parsing everyone’s past income flow.</p>