Peabody Application

College Majors Music Major
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<p>It is why you have to be careful about online posting in general, it is like online reviews on store websites or reading book reviews on Amazon and B and N…because it is online and anonymous, people can and do game things to promote a point of view (What, you mean everything on the Internet isn’t true??? I am shocked!). </p>

<p>A lot of the people posting on here have been here a while, and have seen the range of posts, those ranting against a program, those making it seem like God opened the heavens and created it. Students in programs they feel are unfairly targeted as being ‘not so good’ will post about how great their school is and how overrated the other schools are, people who didn’t get into a particular program can make statements how the process is rigged, you get the drift. On the positive side, those who say a particular program is of course “the best” are playing the hierarchy game,where to them the ‘prestige’ of their school is all that matters; with teachers, I have read comments from people about a teacher that I know about somewhat well and thing they are shading things too far one way or the other (a long while ago, someone posted this glowing message about a certain violin teacher, how they were so fantastic, such a good teacher, nice and caring about their students, how they just love them, and I happen to have been a recital where several of this teacher’s students played, and I was kind of shocked about how badly many of them played…).</p>

<p>When you see a post from someone who hasn’t posted much, and they are so over the top one way or the other, ask yourself why. In my experience (in all my years…help me, I am starting to sound like my parents <em>lol</em>) very few things you run into are that bad or that good, and it tempers how when I read what other people write about teachers and schools what I think about it, the same way that I hope people recognize my posts for what they are, writing from my viewpoint that isn’t going to always be objective. </p>

<p>It would be a lot easier if in this crazy world (let alone music) there was a away to laser in on the truth, the problem is that a lot of this is filtered by perceptions and also by bias and by other factors, and you have to be careful to sift fact from opinion. Put it this way, Juilliard and Curtis are both outstanding music schools, with some really top notch faculty and so forth, but I would never, ever say they are ‘better’ then other schools, because what is better depends on a lot of factors as have been discussed ad nauseum on this board. A particular school comes down to a variety of factors, strong points and weak points, and what is best depends on the student, a combination of financial factors, availability of good teachers in your area, what the rest of the students are like, faclities, location, networking, performance opportunities, all weigh in. You could get into a Juilliard, for example, and get a teacher in the department who isn’t a match or who frankly isn’t that great relatively (and be paying full freight), you can get into a program with a great teacher but find that the playing opportunities are limited, it all adds up, and in many cases, they add up in ways unique to each student. </p>

<p>And to quote the late, great Graham Chapman of Monty Python “Right, this is getting too silly, by orders of the Ministry of Defense, we are shutting this down…” (I suspect the younger members on this board are like 'who the h*** is Graham Chapman and what is Mony Python…:)</p>

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<p>musicprnt, that was a great post! And now for the cheese shop skit… :D</p>

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<p>I’ve been reading all these posts with interest. I understand where the posters who have been around for awhile are coming from - however, my first thought when I read Juilliard2013’s post was that she must have some experience with Peabody. And in fact, I was correct. Although a little more specifics would be nice about what exactly she was referring to, it seems a shame that everyone jumped on her and just assumed that she only joined so she could put down Peabody. If I went to a specific college and was unhappy with how unorganized it was, and people were asking about something related, I would probably want to speak up too. And I don’t think posters should be afraid to do that.</p>

<p>It also occurred to me that people might have thought I originally just joined this summer in order to say only good things about Florida State University. Some posters were asking questions about FSU, and I responded, telling people about my positive experience there. It never occurred to me at the time that people might be suspicious of what I said because I only had one or two posts back then. </p>

<p>I think it would be nice if, instead of assuming the worst, we asked thoughtful questions (i.e., so WHY do you think that way - what is your experience with this situation to make you feel this way) before we attack someone for no good reason. I know that I felt very badly for Juilliard2013. I hope he/she will continue posting and give us more specifics about her particular experiences with Peabody - I think it’s always good to hear about someone’s own experiences - whether they are good or not. Then we can all make our own decisions. I do that whenever I buy something - I read all the good and bad reviews and then make a decision - sometimes totally disregarding any bad reviews. :)</p>

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<p>I do not believe that it is up to others to play twenty questions with the poster. I think it is the job of the poster to support their statements. For instance it would have been easy for the juilliard2013 to mention that there may be a preception of Peabody being easier to get into because Peabody unlike most conservatories of its level actually discusses on its website its admission stats to some degree. In the past a statement on the website said that if an applicant was all state, their chances of admission were good. That statement is no longer on the website. Moreover, in the discussion of the easy A, there could have been a reference to how Peabody grads do in getting into grad programs. It would seem to me that if Peabody was such an easy A, other grad schools would take this into consideration. But my perception is that Peabody grads get into the best programs. So how does that work given the easy A. I do not have a dog in this hunt. I have no connection with either Peabody or Juilliard. I just would like more support for bare assertions regarding a school.</p>

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<p>I just want to welcome Juilliard2013 to the music forum and say that I hope you will stay here and find what you need in terms of information and support, while you apply to grad schools and/or wait to hear, and while you choose where to go.</p>

<p>I think you were smart to be a little cryptic in your first post. It seemed to me to be a hint or nudge so that others could look into things more. This forum is online and we all need to be conservative in how much we say on it. Feel free to use the PM feature once you have enough posts- that is a great way to find out or to share more details.</p>

<p>Good luck to you and to the original poster too. Noone should rely too much on another’s opinion and I am sure that the original poster will make his or her own judgments, but with Juilliard2013’s caution somewhere in the back of his or her mind. Thanks for trying to help.</p>

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<p>It is my hope that juilliard2013 gains admission to every program desired. I also hope that as the acceptances come rolling in, juilliard2013 will seek guidance from the many on this forum that have had experience with the schools to which juilliard 2013 has been accepted. I would also encourage first time posters to use the introduce yourself thread as a means of entry. Not much need be said, certainly no schools need be named. An important rule in life is not to burn bridges. This is so very important in the small world of musicians and compoers. Much thought needs to be given to sign-on names and the content of posts especially when the poster is a student applying to schools. I am sorry for any role I may have had in compelling any poster to say more than they were prepared to say. This does not diminish my desire for a higher level of discourse, but it causes me to rethink how I approach that goal. Peace out.</p>

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<p>It is true you have to be careful online and yes, music is a small world, which is why what you say can be very, very important. I will point out that what Juilliard2013 wrote about Peabody,being as negative as it was, triggered the reaction it did because it was so negative. Among other thing, it implies that if you go to Peabody that they simply pass music students through without training them properly and that the administration and such don’t give a crap about the students, and both without backing come off as someone with an axe to grind rather then someone trying to inform others, this is what they call in the political arena “bomb chucking”…and quite honestly, this is so negative that the person cannot claim that giving details would hurt them more, since if online posts can come back to haunt you, what they already wrote quite frankly has done a lot of damage. Put it this way, whatever Peabody’s reputation is or isn’t, given that students from Peabody get into top level grad programs and move on to become musicians, says that this isn’t a complete picture. I Peabody was the kind of place where students got in there easily, and then were allowed to routinely coast through, that wouldn’t happen, and Peabody would have the reputation of the community music school of Nowheresville, USA. Music is a small world, and believe me, with music schools a school if it were that bad would soon find themselves in serious decline, which my take on Peabody is it isn’t.</p>

<p>When someone chucks bombs like saying “get your easy A’s”, and then doesn’t comment further, they have already made themselves look bad IMO. I don’t think Juilliard is lying or necessarily out to screw Peabody, I think what they report is their experience…even in the best schools, there are teachers who quite frankly either have given up trying to instill excellence or are too far over the hill to be able to do it, you can run into indifferent administration when faced with real issues and so forth…maybe the instrument Juilliard2013 is on the department isn’t so good, who knows? The statements they made were so over the top it isn’t hard to think they are someone doing a chuck and run…</p>

<p>I think Juilliard2013 could make things clearer without giving away specific details…for example, what with the administration is screwed up? Did they not get transcripts to programs they were applying to? Did they foul up financial aid? Did they when a dispute arose with a teacher not do anything? In terms of the Easy A’s, was it they felt that the teachers there don’t push the students? Do they feel they aren’t admitting quality students in the first place? Are juries such that they rubber stamp giving all kids A’s? That would be valuable…and if Juilliard is worried about someone knowing who they are, it would be wise to change their screen name, because if someone from Peabody wanted to figure out who they are, saying they are going to grad school in 2013 at Juilliard is gonna make it really easy to find them…</p>

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<p>Well said Musicprnt!!</p>

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<p>Funny you mention screen names…when I first joined, I had a difficult time deciding on one. My D is a soprano, but there were so many screen names with “soprano” in it, that I decided against that. So then I went with something that describes me - but now I regret it, because let’s face it, I’m not on here for me, it’s all to help my D. But I guess it’s too late now. So when you see my screen name, you can just all think, “Oh, yeah, that crazy sax lady with the D who sings!”</p>

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<p>That’s a great duet to have in the house though!</p>

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<p>Yes, my initial post was actually intended to be somewhat negative. I make no apologies for that. What I posted can’t hurt me, because quite frankly, most people there, unless they have their heads in the sand, are also aware of the problems. Yes, Peabody is in decline. It’s pretty common knowledge that the institute went bankrupt in the 1970’s and Johns Hopkins had to bail the school out in order to continue. </p>

<p>With response to:</p>

<p>“I think Juilliard2013 could make things clearer without giving away specific details…for example, what with the administration is screwed up? Did they not get transcripts to programs they were applying to? Did they foul up financial aid? Did they when a dispute arose with a teacher not do anything? In terms of the Easy A’s, was it they felt that the teachers there don’t push the students? Do they feel they aren’t admitting quality students in the first place? Are juries such that they rubber stamp giving all kids A’s? That would be valuable”</p>

<p>All of the above except for the last point. No, not everyone gets an A on their jury. I never brought up juries??? I was referring to basic coursework at the school. I actually had to study in high school, so I remember what that was like as a comparison.</p>

<p>I’m not worried about someone at Peabody coming and finding me. Everything I’m writing has been expressed by other students and faculty alike. Does anything get done about it though? </p>

<p>Let me ask why we’re even having this conversation in the first place? What were the first few topics about? I’m not sure why this has all come down to a crucifixion of my user name, length of service on here, and the quality of my first post, which was all of about a couple sentences. </p>

<p>I can focus on some good stuff there if you want. Maybe that will make you feel easier. There is some sporadic, great talent there. Musicians are generally nice to each other and not as cut throat. The environment is fairly stress free for the most part. I like the school’s old buildings and the little park out in front. I like to go there and sit when I’ve gotten the run around or my things have gotten lost in some office.</p>

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<p>I’m with Musicprnt and Monty Python. Best of luck juilliard2013. I hope you find the place that’s perfect in everyway for you.</p>

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<p>Just a reminder of the start of this thread:</p>

<p>"Does anyone know why the Peabody application is still not up on their website yet? The website used to say it would be up in mid-October but now it says late October. Anyone have any information on this? "</p>

<p>And Juilliard’s response:</p>

<p>"Administratively and academically there are a lot of problems at Peabody. You should take this as a sign because it denotes much chaos ahead. "</p>

<p>I believe that Juilliard was trying to be helpful, and was then challenged, even attacked.</p>

<p>In the last year, I have felt embarrassed for this forum too many times. I encourage people to stay positive and focused on helping young people and their parents. I encourage people to stick to what is helpful and not have drawn out arguments here that are not relevant to the topic at hand.</p>

<p>The music forum is beginning to resemble other forums in this way.</p>

<p>To Juilliard, apologies and I hope you will stick around. There are many people on this forum who are great resources.</p>

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<p>I agree, compmom. Individuals should be free to post negative experiences as well as positive ones. Peabody is one of the schools my daughter is applying to, and we wondered why it took so long to get the application online. Although, as I previously wrote, the admissions office was very helpful, the application was not available until very late, after Nov. 1.</p>

<p>Personally, I found the NEC admissions office to be the most difficult, and it even gave us wrong information several times. It makes me think that all of the music schools have some quirks, problem employees or other issues, just like any business. I’m not trying to equate them all; I’m sure some are worse than others.</p>

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<p>Info from Admissions Depts can be very dependent upon whom you talk to! If you don’t feel comfortable with what you hear, try e-mailing the director or assistant because it might be that you were connected with a student intern who doesn’t have everything at his/her disposal or even someone who was just filling in while others were in meetings when you called. Admissions reps may be out of the office at college fairs or helping on early audition days too, so a follow up e-mail is fine.</p>

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<p>I found that the admissions officer for composition at NEC was very helpful and polite. Just goes to show that different experiences can be had at the same school.</p>

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<p>I think it is okay to publish negative things about schools or negative experiences, that is part of the learning process about schools, to help form an impression.</p>

<p>With Juilliard’s post, I think the reaction was caused by several factors, some fair, some unfair. First of all, his post was very broad based, if Juilliard was responding to someone’s frustration with the website, then posting something like “the administrative side of Peabody is often pretty chaotic from my experience there” I don’t think anyone would say boo, but the problem was the way it was written, it was a broad blanket condemnation of Peabody’s program, and a lot of it was both generic and quite strong without examples. Saying a program gives easy A’s, that if you go there you can breeze through and not have to work, which was the implication of his/her original post, is what we have seen before on here, hit and run statements…with no details. If he/she had said “I went there, and I found that the courses in music theory and such were not challenging, that they seemed to be admitting kids not as talented as I would expect” it is more specific, and sounds more like giving negative feedback, rather then dropping a bomb.</p>

<p>I think also some of it was unfair (myself included), that what filtered what we read was because Juilliard was a new poster, it smelled like the typical hit and run posts we see here, whether it is someone proclaiming how “school x is the best music school” (guaranteed to get a reaction) or “school Y sucks, it has this great reputation, but school X is much better” (needless to say, school X is where said poster goes) and that was responsible for some of the reaction.</p>

<p>I think whether writing criticism or praise, it is valuable, but I think it also needs to be backed up with why the person feels that way. I am not talking about specific teachers or things you wouldn’t want on open discussion, but rather the things that make the person feel the way they do. For example, if someone writes “the music theory classes at school X suck”, it sounds like sour grapes or maybe that the person doesn’t know the school but is saying it because they heard it or want to put the school down. If the person writes “I went to school X, and I found that the music theory classes were too easy, they were taken way too slow, the material was watered down and the kids openly cheated” it gives perspective. If someone writes that they found the level of students in the program didn’t match expectations in terms of playing level, that is more specific and helpful, saying 'the program sucks" doesn’t…</p>

<p>Likewise, saying “the violin program at school X is the best” is useless, saying “My experience with the violin program is that the teachers try to encourage the kids to be well rounded while sharpening their technical skills and the kids in the various studios were collegial rather then adversarial” it is helpful. </p>

<p>I have seen people get dumped on for positives, those proclaiming a certain school is ‘the best’, posting a USNWR ranking of music schools and saying “This shows where I go is best”, or those saying “the violin department at school Y is clearly the best, because joe Schmoe won the Ipsalanti concerto competition”, are going to get trashed, too. It is more about the way they are said then the content, if it smells like dumping or partisanship or whatever, people are going to get knocked for it, which in part is what hit Juilliard; there is no blanket ban on negative posts, the way there is none on positive ones, it is that people are reacting to the way something is presented.</p>

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<p>I shouldn’t prolong this, but Juilliard’s first post was:</p>

<p>“Administratively and academically there are a lot of problems at Peabody. You should take this as a sign because it denotes much chaos ahead.”</p>

<p>That’s it.</p>

<p>Shortly thereafter, no less than 3 people challenged/attacked Juilliard, and at some point Juilliard was pressed to provide more details, which created more responses.</p>

<p>I think it is time to let this all go, and unfortunately, welcoming Juilliard doesn’t feel possible at this point, though we can try.</p>

<p>Let’s remember we are dealing with young people. In this case, a young person trying to help, which really doesn’t happen that often. Usually, either a parent is seeking help or a student is seeking help, but it is rare that a student offers help, and I think it should be appreciated. And students at schools are, afterall, the ones who really know the straight skinny, as my boss used to say.</p>

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<p>The critics of the original post did jump the gun, I suspect because of the tone of the piece combined with it being a new user, which is usually the MO of trolls and those looking to promote something or whatever.</p>

<p>It was his/her second post that highlights my point,what i mean.</p>

<p>“Sorry that I speak the truth. When you get there, you’ll know exactly what I’m talking about. Students are friendly, and you’ll most likely get your easy A’s from teachers, but don’t ask me to say that it’s up to par with the other conservatories because it just isn’t. The current dean is in hot water and doesn’t help you at all when you go in to see him. Scheduling is often a mess. When you go to just about any office and request help, they’ll tell you anything to get you out just so they can get on Facebook. I’ve seen it!!! Get mad all you want at me, I’m just telling you like it is.”</p>

<p>First of all, it jumped from the original post, which was about bureacratic screwups, to being a broad based condemnation of Peabody. Using terms like ‘speaking the truth’ and “I am telling it like it is” comes of extremely strong; and as far as Peabody being on par with other conservatories they have no way of knowing that…btw, I have no horse in this race, my S is not applying there, I didn’t go there (not a musician), but I also know that kind of statement has problems (for example, Peabody may have a rotten woodwind department but might have a strong violin department, as a totally hypothetical example). When later on Juilliard said he found the academics easy, that is a lot more concise then saying you get easy A’s there…and among other things, if Peabody was as bad as they claim, they wouldn’t be sending students to top grad programs, which they do (including juilliard himself/herself).</p>

<p>As far as being a young person, Juilliard is not a 17 or 18 year old, they are 22 years old, are an adult. Hopefully Juilliard will elaborate more about what their experience was, it is valuable to hear this, my point simply is that anyone posting on here should be aware that how you phrase stuff makes a difference, that saying ‘the school sucks’ is going to elicit very negative responses, while saying what they found bad won’t.</p>

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<p>Can we agree that this horse is, if not actually dead, at least pining for the fjords, and move on? :)</p>