Peer pressure and its impact on college selection

Parent Cafe
61

<p>Our district hs is fairly low key about the college admissions thing. They will list the colleges students are attending but w/o any student names. They also list the total amount of scholarships awarded but not a further breakout of the numbers. I do know that the guidanace office like its seniiors to report any merit scholarship offers, so I suspect that this is the source of the total. And because it is voluntary, I doubt that it is very complete. I do know that it totalled about $5,000,0000 for our son's class or about $35,000 per student attending a 4 yr college.</p>

<p>They do like to recognize hs academic achievement and have cords for all honor societies and a gold medal signifying high honor roll for all 4 years. Immediately following the graduation ceremony and the requisite pics my wife ended up wearing those. They also have the senior honors banquet where students in the top 5% of the class attend with their parents and a faculty member of their anonymous choosing. Given the amout of recognition that hs athletics receives throughout the school year, its nice to see the academic achievers get some recognition as graduation nears.</p>

62

<p>Our GC office also requests reports of all scholaship offers. It is reported in our local paper which school in the district accumulated the most $ in offers. </p>

<p>Only NHS members wear special collar thing at graduation. Our school has started giving each graduate a gold colored school medallion on a ribbon to wear at graduation and keep as a momento. </p>

<p>The senior honors banquet sounds nice. Never heard of that before. S1 was in top 10 of his class and only recognition of them was to have their name called on senior awards night, not even a mention in the graduation program or our small town paper. S2 is an athlete but not a scholar and has had his name in the paper lots more times. It's an age old debate.</p>

63

<p>
[quote]
Sooo when you see one person got into one school and other got into seven...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That should be true of every kid who applied ED and got in. :)</p>

64

<p>I remember reading Andi's account of how miserable it was to be around all the celebrating families and being asked where her brilliant, high-achieving, amazing son was going next year and he hadn't been accepted anywhere. I'm glad to be reading this thread as we enter what my son calls the "cone of silence". I'm going to be more careful about if and how I approach this topic with parents and with kids.</p>

<p>Our hs just lists which schools their students have been accepted to with no student names attached. Our GC did hook us up with some grads when we were doing campus visits, but got permission first. We have a separate awards ceremony a few days before graduation. I attended one a few years ago because my son's chorus was singing. It seems to me they managed to highlight something special about every kid (maybe got teacher input on this). It was really nice as I recall.</p>

<p>countingdown</p>

<p>Your son sounds so much like mine. He's learned to take pride in being different, fortunately. He also wants to try out a new part of the country rather than running with the pack (admittedly, his pack is pretty small). Though we'll miss him terribly, I am so excited for him. I remember how wonderful it felt when I arrived at college and was surrounded by people who understood me. Doesn't get any better than that.</p>

65

<p>My son applied to 9 schools, accepted at 7, deferred at 2. He was a solid B student. When you see that he was accepted at Millersville, Champlain, Allegheny, Towson, Roanoke, (one more) and York I don't think you would say, "Wow! what a student!". You would just think," boy he applied to a lot of schools. " It's not going to be a suprise at the end of the year that the top students were accepted into some great schools. Just because someone is accepted into more then one school doesn't mean that much. </p>

<p>I wanted my son to apply to several schools because he was very wishy-washy about what he wanted to do and aid was important to us. I figured he could apply anywhere that he thought he would attend, had a good chance of getting into, and would be affordable for our family. Once we had the financial aid packages, then he could decide where he wanted to go.</p>

66

<p>My son's hs had special cords for honor societies, gold tassel and special sash for NHS, and recognition at graduation for the top ten grads. At the awards assembly, however, the biggest ovation went to the 4 boys who had joined the military. Otherwise, except for the val and sal, the name of the college each student would be attending was not mentioned unless they had received a scholarship pertaining to their school. There was a poster set up with the names of all the colleges and a tally of the number of students attending each school. The last school newspaper was a seniors' edition that listed each student, their school, military, or undecided. There was also a senior awards banquet, but only the students attended.</p>

67

<p>The AP English teacher at my daughter's HS has a paper posted in her room, where kids write where they've been accepted. From my daughter's perspective, it's been a way for her to know who got in where (as opposed to relying on gossip). Last year, the freebie newspaper in town published the names of all the seniors and what they were doing -- it never occurred to me that feelings might be hurt. They'd never published that list before. In retrospect, I could see how that list could be damaging.</p>

<p>However, unless you know where the kids applied and didn't get in, there's no way the public would know whether a kid's college was the first or last choice. For example, everyone seemed very happy about one kid's college destination -- and I only learned months later from a mutual friend that this kid had been denied by eight other schools and was attending their safety. Another kid got into some top schools, and attended that same school --on full scholarship, and was quite happy with the decision. In our small community, I don't think anyone points fingers at the top kids and wonders why they aren't going someplace better. In fact, no one really knows who the top kids are until graduation day -- rank is just not discussed. In the graduation program, the "valedictory group" (GPAs above 3.9) are listed along with their colleges.</p>

<p>Ironically, my daughter has had a different reaction to her ED acceptance. She's a modest kid, one who doesn't trumpet her achievements and has never received a single honor at an assembly. She tells me that some people were really surprised at where she got in, in a sort of 'I had no idea you were that smart' kind of way.</p>

68

<p>At my son's high school NHS members wear cords at graduation. All students who graduated with a 4.0 or better are designated as "Top Seniors" and get medals to wear at the ceremony. A picture of the "Top Senior" group is printed in the paper, but no mention is made in the paper of what schools individuals are attending. The funny thing is that my son would not wear his medal at the graduation ceremony, he said he felt silly.</p>

69

<p>My son only applied to one school, Yale, and when he found out he got in, he had no interest in applying anywhere else. He's already sent in his postcard; he's done. His best friend applied early to Wharton, was accepted, and he's done as well. Luckily, our school doesn't post all your acceptances. At the end of the year, the school newspaper simply lists the seniors and where they're going (though some will say undecided or decline to state) -- but you won't know whether they got into their first and only choice, or whether they applied to a dozen schools.<br>
His school did have a "shared mentality" about what schools were the hot choices, don't know if it's "peer pressure" or just similar kids finding similar schools preferential. In a graduating class of 290, 27 applied early to Penn and 25 to Yale, that's a big chunk of shared interest!</p>

70

<p>why the need to publish the destinations of students? just so nosey people can get the news</p>

<p>it is no ones right to have this information and there is peer pressure to put the destinations in</p>

<p>and it is not the "top kids" who will get pointed to, it is the students who are not going right away, going to schools that others might see as lesser (CC in some cases which to me is just fine, but to other judgemental people, who snub their noses or wonder why,) etc</p>

<p>I still don't understand the need to put this information in the newspaper</p>

<p>Who does it benefit but some people who need to know others personal business</p>

<p>Do you really need to know the destination of each and every graduate? No</p>

<p>I don't get it at all and how do any of you know no one was hurt by the lists...you have no idea what wounds can be brought up, what anger, what personal dramas, what financial problems, etc, just so some people can get their jollies being in others business</p>

<p>As a mom who has personally seen the hurt this has caused in the past and who is currently working to change school tradition, I am suprised that parents who seem so intuitive are so clueles that indeed these kinds of lists can do some harm</p>

71

<p>cgm</p>

<p>I agree with you. I just hadn't thought about it before.</p>

72

<p>I completely don't get your sensitivity to this, cgm. I know a few kids (very few) for whom the college process has not had what they considered an OK outcome, and I am sure that lots of things towards the end of the year are stressful for them, when 99% of their friends and classmates are celebrating their futures. That is unavoidable to some extent, and usually their friends are pretty sensitive to how they are feeling, so that mitigates things.</p>

<p>But publishing a list in the last school paper, or in the alumni magazine next fall? If that adds anything to the hurt of a bad outcome, it's infinitessimal. One of my daughter's friends, a top student, like Andison didn't get accepted anywhere. Was that hurtful and embarassing? Of course! Did people gossip about it? Of course! Did people who hadn't heard the news ask inadvertently hurtful questions? Of course. But did she gnash her teeth when "gap year" appeared next to her name on the teeny-type, 500-name-long college list? Maybe, but the vast majority of the hurt had already happened and been processed. She had her stock set of answers down pat by then.</p>

<p>And she wanted to know where everyone else would be, too. Sure, it's not necessarily "her business" if she don't go out of their way to ask each kid and to record the answer somewhere so she could remember it. But who cares? You, I guess, but hardly anyone else I think. Not I.</p>

73

<p>I am only interested in seeing two groups of data. Where the students were accepted, and where they decided to attend (no names necessary). For example, it was interesting to see 16 admitted to Stanford, but only 9 choosing to attend. It was also interesting to see that 135 (or so) chose to attend flagship State U.</p>

<p>On the public announcement front, kids at S's school made a wall of rejection, where kids, on their own, tacked up their rejection letters. S reported that kids without them felt left out. Principal tried to take it down, but the kids protested, so it was left up. Made the whole process much less pressure. Kids can be clever.</p>

74

<p>JHS how int he world do you know no one is hurt, seriouslly, are you in the bedrooms where they are crying, are you next to them when the cringe at the nosey questions</p>

<p>yes the vast majority of hurt already happened, so lets just put of this list of the kid can be reminded, in public</p>

<p>and why do you need to know this information, JHS...is your need to know more important than others feelings?</p>

<p>it is this attitude, well, I don't know anyone personally who is hurt by the lists, so guess no one is?</p>

<p>guess I think about how a publication can hurt kids, while others feel well, "who cares if they are hurt, so long as I can feed my need to know"</p>

<p>just because your small circle hasn't seen the hurt in public, doesn't mean it isn't real</p>

75

<p>If something like that (having a list of college choices published) is the worst hurt a kid experiences in high school, good for them! CGM- to me this is a case where the benefits outweigh the risks of some little pang that might occur way late in the whole process. I just don't see the expectation of privacy about a college- or NON college choice- but I guess if I was worried about privacy I wouldn't be on this forum with my family's experiences.</p>

76

<p>At my daughter's small, high-achieving, high-aspiring school a list of colleges where the graduating class will matriculate is published in the fall, without the specific student-college pairings identified. I can think of many students who would be hurt or upset if detailed lists itemizing each student's acceptances, scholarships, etc, were published in any forum. </p>

<p>Students who were denied at their first choice of college X, don't need to see which of their classmates were accepted to X - some of whom have decided not to attend X. Students who receive financial aid from colleges known only to give need-based aid, don't need to have it advertised that they received need-based aid. Students who were accepted to multiple highly selective colleges where their friends were denied don't need to have their acceptances rubbed into their friends' faces.</p>

<p>Naviance provides detailed data to mine when trying to predict the following years' applicants' chances - specific names of the applicants aren't necessary.</p>

77

<p>idad,</p>

<p>I like how the kids publicly posted their rejections -- you're right, it's a great way to take the insanity down a level.</p>

<p>Both my kids' school papers print where kids are going; from what I understand, this is a voluntary thing, and there is a wide range of schools, work, military and travel. DS1 is in a class of nearly 900; if they announced each kid's honors/acceptances/plans, we'd be there for days!</p>

78

<p>No, cgm, obviously I'm not close to everyone. I've been close enough to a few to know about the tears in the bedroom, and to know the cycle of it. I assume there are a million stories in the naked city, etc.</p>

<p>And if you read what I wrote, I didn't claim any "need to know" -- certainly not for myself (hardly more than idle curiosity), and not really much for the classmates or other students (if they really need to know, they have lots of ways to find out). What it is, is nice, and convenient. It's nice and convenient to have a handy-dandy reference.</p>

<p>And against that -- what? Maybe someone will feel hurt? 1%? .5%? .05%? Every third year? And how much marginal hurt? A little? Hardly any? Certainly not a lot -- the big hurt is the substance, not the fact that acquaintances (and people you don't know at all) can read that you're going to Brand X U. All the crying I've ever seen is about the colleges' decisions, and what to say to people who were going to ask anyway, and why did Susie get in and not me . . . not about publication of a final list months later. This is NOTHING compared to the humiliation of being obese or scarred or unfashionably dressed at a prom, or of being obese or scarred or poor and NOT being at a prom. If we're trying to shield kids from all hurts, let's start there, and we'll get around to the college lists in 10 or 20 years.</p>

<p>And even some of those who might hypothetically be hurt might hypothetically be helped instead. In the "Andison"-type case, a list that says "gap year" tips off caring people (i.e., almost everyone) not to say "When are you leaving for New Haven?" but rather "Hey, cool! What are you doing for your gap year?"</p>

<p>Part of what makes a community is people being in each other's business without a need to know sometimes, at least insofar as big, boldstroke life events are concerned. I've never been part of a community where this kind of information was private. Everybody always knew. A kid may feel humiliated and upset by what the colleges or his parents did to him, but one of the life lessons he ought to learn is to deal with it and to hold his head high. To trust people to respond the right way when you give them the right cues, rather than cutting yourself off. I like more community, not less.</p>

<p>Edit: I want to make clear that I'm talking about one final list of where everyone's going (or what else they're doing). I would not publish a list of acceptances/decisions, or a list of scholarships, except maybe for those awarded publicly by the school itself. And certainly not rejections.</p>

79

<p>How about making the list voluntary, like the school telephone directory? List every graduate alphabetically, along with college or future plans only if the student wishes to share that info.</p>

<p>College matriculation & admissions data can be presented with no student names on the school website for people who want to evaluate a school's track record.</p>