Peer pressure and its impact on college selection

Parent Cafe
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<p>My older daughter, a high school senior, is a very focused kid who set out a number of criteria for selection early in the college decision process. She researched schools which fit her criteria, we visited a number of those schools, and she decided that she truly loved her safety--far more than the match/reaches she was considering. We thought she was making a reasonable decision, particularly in light of the fact that her school of choice was rated at the top of the field she wants to pursue, but more to the point, we thought she was making a decision based on consideration and thought, whether we (or others) would/could disagree with the conclusion. When she told us in the late summer that she was going to submit only one application (note: she was an automatic admit on the numbers, so there was no chance involved), we told her that was her choice, and we respected her decision.</p>

<p>Senior year started, and her friends began to discuss college plans. My daughter's peer group is filled with kids who have done extremely well (as has she), and who were applying to Top 10-25 schools with very realistic chances to get in. She started getting questioned about her choice, which is in the 50-100 range in the US News rankings, and why she wasn't applying to more prestigious schools that she would have a good chance to get in. At first, she explained that her choice was at the very top of her intended area, but as time wore on, her list began to expand. In mid-Decenber, right after a bunch of her friends were accepted ED into very prestigious schools (Harvard, Penn, 2 Stanfords, 6 Northwesterns, 4 Wash Us, etc.), and a whole bunch more were accepted rolling admissions to Michigan, Wisconsin, and Illinois, she started to lean away from her original first choice.</p>

<p>Fast forward to the week after Christmas. My daughter gets a letter from her safety advising her that she has been designated as a special scholar in her area, which gets her a whole series of things including money, internships, a dedicated faculty mentor in her specific area of intended concentration, and, perhaps most importantly for an 18 year old, placement in an air conditioned dorm with suite rooms and a swimming pool in the complex. This is followed by admission to the Honors College, and a cascade of recruiting letters (including a Christmas Card) from the school. She tells her friends about this, and now the tone changes--everybody tells her she's be nuts not to go to the original first choice, because of the opportunities presented. She decides to change her plan to visit another school over Presidents' Day weekend, and substitutes another visit to the safety. Last night, she tells us that she knows she's going to her original first choice no matter what her choices ultimately are.</p>

<p>As I said earlier, she's an extremely level-headed kid as a general rule--if she's subject to these kinds of mood swings and peer pressure with respect to her college decision, it's a little scary to think what will happen when my son (an 8th grader, whose next non-anguished decision will be his first) goes through the proceess. </p>

<p>Have others had similar experiences?</p>

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<p>I have 3 sons and it was not an issue for any of them, although we don't live in a high pressure area. My guess is that this may be more of an issue for girls than for boys, but I could be wrong.</p>

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<p>Since, in the end, she's stuck to her original decision, I'd say she wasn't especially swayed by peer pressure, just caught up somewhat in college application hoopla.</p>

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<p>My d went through some of the same stuff. When she was a junior, we visited a school that she loved, and she told everyone that she was applying there ED. When push came to shove, although she still really liked the school, she decided against the binding application. As she put it, "It's easy to say ED when it's theoretical. But when it's real, I'm just not sure enough and I want to see if I have other choices." This was not as a result of peer pressure, just of the growth process.</p>

<p>I think there'll always be some degree of "buyer's remorse" - now your d has had another chance to see what her real, not theoretical, options are, and has made her own decision.</p>

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<p>This is a great story, because it shows that her friends are basically level-headed and respectful, too.</p>

<p>I don't think there's any question that peer pressure factors in to my son's decisionmaking, although in this case "peer pressure" and "conventional wisdom" are pretty much one and the same. Realistically, my son may be called on to choose among 2-4 schools, and as of right now his ranking would be unconventional (but not stupid or irrational, although also not particularly throughtful). His peers would rank the schools A B C D; he ranks them C A D B. His sister predicts that, if it comes down to that, he will ultimately choose A over C or B over C or D, largely because of peer pressure. We (the parents) don't care much about A B or C, all of which are super, but my spouse cares a lot (also not so thoughtfully) about B versus D. So she is counting on a little peer pressure.</p>

<p>I'll see what happens. What I care about is that he make his decision based on some actual analysis, and not on USNWR rankings or proximity to home. To the extent peer pressure reflects general reputation, I don't think it is illegitimate at all as an element of analysis, as long as it's not the only element of analysis. After all, one of the things a kid is looking for from college is a credential, and social perception of the relative values of the credentials available is something to take into account.</p>

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<p>That kind of peer pressure bothers me. I think it often comes from the peers' parents who insist on a prestigious school for whatever reason(s).</p>

<p>It's not too bad around here, but lots of people have asked me why my son isn't applying to any Ivies, but only to small LACs few around here have heard of (even though they are all in the top 100 USN&WR with 2 in the top 50 and 6 in the top 20). BTW, USN&WR rating are not how I judge school quality, but still...</p>

<p>If people are asking me this, I assume they're asking my son also. I heard him telling his best friend that he'd toyed with the idea of applying to one or two Ivies just to see if he'd get in, even though none of them felt like a good fit, but finally decided it was silly.</p>

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<p>I agree with the poster who said it seemed to influence girls more than boys. At least it seems so in our neck of the woods.
At my S's school (and all the others in our district apparantly) it seems that 90% of the girls are deperate to get into our flagship state u, a very well respected one. Many of these girls have no idea what their major will be and have never even set foot on the campus but that doesn't deter them at all. It's almost like it's the cool thing to do to say you're applying/want to go to this school. </p>

<p>The worst part is that many (like my best friend's D) are so focused on the one dream school that they apply to a few others but really have no interest in them. Then when they get rejected or deferred from the dream school, they are left to attend their safety that they never even wanted to attend or desperately start searching for somewhere else to apply before the RD deadline. Everyone at school knows who got in and who didn't and it sometimes comes between friends and makes parents bitter.</p>

<p>My friend's D took her deferrment this weekend pretty well (which tells me that it might have only been her dream school because everybody else said so) and is now looking into other options at schools she would not previously have considered.</p>

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<p>I don't know if I would attribute it to peer pressure, but I think boys are every bit as likely to fall subject to the lure of the "prestigious" schools. I know in our family our daughter couldn't care less about the prestige of a school as long as the music and academic program was appropriate for her. My son was a lot more interested in reputations and the snob appeal, as were his friends.</p>

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<p>From where I sit, this is a huge problem. My eldest daughter, currently a senior, attends a private school with an (unfortunately) incredibly bright class -- or so they are always being told. My D is a hard worker, but an average student and a poor standardized test taker. Although she has done fine in school grade-wise, the college process has been very hard for her because it's all her classmates seem to talk about and this year, it seems to be all-Ivy all-the-time. I think this is a kid who could really thrive in a 2nd tier LAC, but her list is top-heavy, and she's swayed by the name game. Now, the admissions committees may well make her choice for her, which would probably be the best in the end. But I remain worried she'll end up at a school a bump up from where I see her, and spend the next four years once again feeling like she's not as smart as everyone else. If she does end up at one of her safeties, she says she'll feel as though she has "settled," and it "won't be what I've busted my butt for the past four years."</p>

<p>In addition to the gender debate on this issue -- I would add geographic. My nieces and nephews in other parts of the country have not experienced the same insanity as we have here on the East Coast.</p>

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<p>I don't think my kids fell for any peer pressure. They both looked at schools that most of their friends had never even heard of, and ended up attending ones that were unknown to most people. What I'm suprised about is how NONE of their friends are attending the same college. Everyone really spread out in state and out of state. Well, one of my daughters friends attends the same college as one of my son's friends but that's about it. </p>

<p>I know I'm a broken record about this "East Coast" thing but our school (99% Waspy kids, highest housing prices in county) is very, very, low key about ivy league and brand name schools. Get out of the East Coast cities and private schools and I don't think you'll see any more pressure then any place else in the US.</p>

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<p>IvoryK, just want to reassure you that if your daughter is admitted somewhere that you think is a stretch for her.... some folks who see a lot of kids and applications have determined that she can do the work.</p>

<p>Now, some judgement needs to come into play. I wouldn't encourage a kid to do engineering a school that was a real reach, unless the kid had an iron-clad sense of self and wasn't going to let some C's depress him/her; I wouldn't encourage a kid to go to a school that was a bad fit just because it was a major reach and miracle of miracles, the kid got in, but by and large, kids who work hard and who are determined can do much better than their naturally gifted peers once they get to college.</p>

<p>I felt underqualified when I got to Brown; my guidance counselor told me it was a waste of $20 or whatever it cost to apply and that I'd never get in..... and I didn't care if it was, I didn't want to go through life wondering if I could have been admitted. I had 4 great years there; I worked hard but had time for many non-academic things that were mind-opening and gratifying; I made wonderful friends and was inspired by fantastic professors. I didn't struggle academically but I definitely worked a lot harder than some of my friends, and I did all the nerd things like go to lecture, see professors during office hours for extra help, meet with the TA before exams.</p>

<p>Maybe your daughter will "find herself " in a more demanding environment than you think she can handle... I know I did.</p>

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<p>OP...
S had a problem very much like this last year. He was a NMF and close to top of his class with state wide leadership credentials.
He based his college apps on his very focused choice of major,which is not a traditional path for kids in his "category".His GC and the principal gave him a hard time and tried to steer him otherwise.
He wound up with 7 out of 7 acceptances,all with merit $$.After visits he had a clear #1 (different than his #1 prior to visiting) which was considered less prestigious.But its a top 4 choice for his major, and gave him an unprecedented opportunity,with a true free ride,computer,study abroad funding and great mentoring in his chosen field. He seems happy as a clam after the first semester.
But even at the graduation ceremony the principal had something to say along the lines of..why is S going to THAT school?
Tell D to stick to her guns and laugh "all the way to the bank".She'll have great opportunities with all the perks they are giving her,and sometimes its fun to be at the top of the heap so to speak.</p>

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<p>I don't get it. At my daughter's highly competitive school, kids are THRILLED when one of their classmates chooses a college that would ordinarily not be on a highly academic kid's radar screen in order to pursue a special interest. The reason: this takes the special-interest kid out of the competition for spaces at the schools preferred by the general-interest people. </p>

<p>One of the most brilliant academic students in my daughter's class, who would have been a very legitimate candidate for HYPSM if he chose to apply there, instead has decided to major in music and has chosen colleges with top professionally oriented programs in that field. There's not an Ivy or a top LAC on his list (although he is applying to Oberlin and Northwestern). From the point of view of the other kids, this is great. He would have been formidable competition if he had not taken himself out of the game.</p>

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<p>agree with cathmee - and I think there are quite a few students like this out there. My son was also NMF, and National AP Scholar with high grades, tough courses and strong ECs. He tried one Ivy since it had a strong program in his intended major (didn't make it in though). Lots of his peers went for multiple ivies and some of them made it. After much thought, he chose an honors college at a our good state U - with many perks and study abroad opportunities and a top program in his major. Some understand what a wonderful opportunity this is. Others think our son was out of his mind and that we're cheap parents (he turned down some top 30 privates with merit $). Well. he LOVES it and is doing well. I'm happy he didn't get caught up in the "prestige" craze - and he's happy he'll have dollars saved for grad school.
People around here love to name drop though - Ivies and other top privates are touted as superior and state schools are looked down upon in many circles. The snootiness around here is hard to take! ( Yes, were in an east coast suburb or a big city). Bottom line - there's a lot of peer pressure on parents too and some fall right in the trap and put undue pressure on their kids.
For the OPs D, I think it's normal to change preferences through the process. MY son loved small schools in the beginning of the process (junior year into early senior year), and thought they were boring by the time the acceptances came in. Go figure. But, as I said, he's doing just fine now that's he's settled at his school Good luck!</p>

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<p>My experience mirrors bethievt's. Not only did my D, who probably had a shot at an ivy, not apply to any ivies --- she didn't apply to the flagship state u every "smart" kid in our state applies to. On top of that, no one has heard of any of her choices (except that school in Indiana that gets confused with the similar-sounding school in Chicago --- then they say "oh" when told it's the one in IN, not the one with the good basketball team). </p>

<p>Fortunately, D has great sense of self (and of our financial situation). She found great schools SHE likes, all highly rated (just not "known"). She can envision herself being happy at any one of them.</p>

<p>She attends a solid private prep school, but ivies are not the be all & end all. Her counselor is actually kind of excited, because no one has ever applied to several of her choices.</p>

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<p>Here's the dilemma my D faces regarding peer influence. She attends a private, very competitive school on the east coast, yet ALL of her peers are staying within our state or states that border ours. They CANNOT understand why she would want to go down south or out west. These are kids who were raised with plenty of money (and opportunity for travel). So I am encouraging her to stick to her guns despite all of the comments from friends like, "Why would you want to go so far away?" They just don't understand that she wants to experience something different from where she spent the past 17 years...</p>

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<p>I think everyone has there own point of view on what they want and then they interpolate to the others around them. I think this board is skewed towards the higher achieving students and we look at everyone else’s data and start to think, I’m not good enough, or I’m as good as that person, I could go there too.</p>

<p>In my little corner of the world my high school might send a few kids each year to the most prestigious schools. Two years ago the top two students went to Yale and Brown. The next eight students all went to public schools.</p>

<p>I decided to explore some private schools below the most prestigious level (non Ivy or Ivy compatible) and a few tier 2 privates as well as my local public flagship institution.</p>

<p>Because I’m currently ranked first in my class and won a number of awards people assume I’m applying to Ivy League schools. It doesn’t bother me; I usually explain that I have chosen a different path. I’m looking a little further away than the Ivy northeast corridor.</p>

<p>My point is that I made up my own mind. My friends have all chosen their own paths as well. We are very respectful and supportive of each other’s choices.</p>

<p>Regarding other posts as to whether boys or girls are more swayed by peers. I’d say it really is about the same. It might seem like more girls get influenced, as in my school eight of the top ten students are girls.</p>

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<p>sunshadow</p>

<p>We get that too, like surprise and almost pity that our S might go to college in the Midwest. Their loss, I guess, if they don't know how good some of these schools are. But we only have one child and flexibility to travel. With other family situations, I can see why parents want their kids closer to home.</p>

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<p>Yes, that's true. But I am surprised at the KIDS. When I was in high school, I couldn't wait to get away and explore the world. These kids don't want to leave the comfort of familiar surroundings, and cannot understand those that do...</p>

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<p>My D hasn't seemed to allow peer pressure to do anything except sway her away from applying to the colleges that all her friends are applying to. I think she wants to go someplace totally away from everyone she currently knows.</p>