Penn CAS or Wharton?

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Prospective Major: Math</p>

<p>Class Rank: 4/812, salutatorian
GPA: 4.00 unweighted, 4.95 weighted
SAT: 2320 (Math 750, Reading 790, Writing 780)</p>

<p>SAT Subject Tests:
Math 2: 800
US History: 770
Chinese: 770</p>

<p>AP Tests: Calculus BC, Chemistry, Economics, Statistics, Psychology, US Government, US History (all 5s)</p>

<p>Extracurricular Activities (in-school):
Math League President
Science Olympiad
Political Science
Odyssey of the Mind Captain
Chinese Club Founder and President
French Club
Philosophy Club</p>

<p>Extracurricular Activities (out-of-school):
Teen Advisory Board President
Youth Group Leader
Hospital Volunteer (over 300 hours)
Neuroscience Lab Research</p>

<p>Competitions:
Lehigh University Math Competition, 3rd place
Bloomsburg University Math Competition, 1st place
Delaware Valley Science Fair Competition, 3rd place
Lehigh Valley Science Fair Competition, 1st place
National Piano Auditions, National Winner with Superior Plus Rating</p>

<p>Summers: math classes at CTY and Lehigh</p>

<p>Recommendation Letter from the Chair of the Math Department at Lehigh.</p>

<p>Additional Information: Last summer, I wrote a proposal to change GPA system and presented it to the school board. I then worked with the administration to create a new system for calculating GPA that would be more fair to students. I wrote about this in the "Why Penn?" essay.</p>

<p>Do I have a fighting change of getting admitted to Wharton or should I apply to Penn CAS instead?</p>

<p>The problem is that most of my ECs are oriented toward the sciences and math, not business, and I want to know how much this will hurt me if I apply to Wharton.</p>

2

<p>Bump…</p>

3

<p>It’s hard to say until you answer the question “What do you want to be when you grow up and what are you most passionate about?”
Your application definately would make someone think Penn CAS because of your focus with math, BUT if you are really passionate and aspire to go to Wharton you will only have the oppurtunity if you apply.
The real question is this worth risking your chance at acceptance considering how competitive Wharton is?
Considering I’m not a student at Wharton (or even Penn for that matter) and this is the “College Search and Selection” thread most people probably aren’t either.
Maybe you should consider moving this thread to the actual Penn forum and see what kind of response you get?</p>

4

<p>Why either (non-Wharton) Penn or Wharton?</p>

<p>Penn is not very strong in mathematics, relatively speaking…</p>

5

<p>I want to get a PhD in Econ. However, if I don’t get into a top Econ program, then I’ll probably want to work on Wall Street instead.</p>

<p>I know Penn’s Math program is pretty weak, but how about it’s Econ program?</p>

6

<p>^^^ A cut below HYPSM + Chicago…</p>

<p>If you want to pursue a PhD in economics, try to get into the most theoretically-based program possible. My impression is that Penn econ is more business-oriented than HYPSM + Chicago.</p>

7

<p>^ That’s a common misconception (that “Penn econ is more business-oriented”). Penn’s Economics Department is in its School of Arts and Sciences, and is completely separate from the more business-oriented Wharton departments of Finance, etc.</p>

<p>Furthermore, Penn’s Economics Department has long been ranked among the top 10 in the country in rankings of “theoretically-based” Economics Ph.D. programs, albeit, as you indicated, “a cut below” HYPSM + Chicago," which are generally ranked as the top 6.</p>

<p>One big advantage of Penn’s undergraduate Economics major is that, unlike HYPSM + Chicago, one can supplement his/her liberal arts Economics courses with more business-oriented Finance, etc. courses in Wharton, if one wants exposure to some of that. Penn also encourages its undergrads to take courses in other undergraduate, graduate, and professional schools within the university, such as the law school, which might be of great interest to a broad-minded, interdisciplinary young Economics major. :)</p>

8

<p>^^^ No one is denying that Penn has a strong economics department. But the fact of the matter is, the cream of the economics crop is indeed: HYPSM + Chicago.</p>

<p>A “top 10” ranking is highly subjective if not arbitrary because there are about a dozen or so schools that are in the next tier below HYPSM + Chicago.</p>

<p>Considering that the OP is interested in advanced work in economics, interdisclipinary studies is probably a fringe benefit he or she can do without. PhD programs are not asking for “broad-mindedness”; in fact, they are specifically looking for a narrow and in-depth focus on the part of their applicants.</p>

9

<p>I should think that Math is at the core of Ph.D. level Economics. </p>

<p>The MBA classmates I saw go on to lucrative finance careers were the physics, chem, math, engineering majors, and <em>not</em> the econ/history/english/polisci majors. Exceptions of course but Wall St. LOVES rocket scientists.</p>

10

<p>sp1d3ysense: It’s actually HPSM Chicago</p>

<p>Yale is not considered as elite for economics as those 5 and penn and northwestern probably match yale for econ. rankings are forced to follow a strict methodology and so often miss out on subjective factors which make a program good. Usnews econ rankings are based heavily on peer assessment, which again is broadly a decent measure, but often lags behind the times. Columbia for example is still ranked low, despite having faculty, resources, nobel prizes and research to match HPSMCh, because Columbia 10 years ago wasn’t nearly as good of an Econ dept, they’ve done some aggressive hiring, their faculty has recently become filled with heavy weights but peer assessment has not caught up because it takes a longer time for perceptions to change.</p>

<p>here’s a ranking using data: <a href=“http://www.arwu.org/ARWUSubject2009EconomicsBusiness.jsp[/url]”>http://www.arwu.org/ARWUSubject2009EconomicsBusiness.jsp&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>Either way all this about the creme de la creme econ schools is irrelevant for undergrad, your world renowned professors make a difference for graduate school. Someone at dartmouth, williams, swarthmore could receive a fantastic undergraduate education, and would compete seamlessly with Chicago econ majors at a top econ phd program. These schools have no/few incredible world renowned economists, and if their econ departments were peer assessed they’d probably receive a 2-3/5.0</p>

11

<p>If you want a Ph.D. in economics, the best preparation is almost always a degree in applied math or math, or applied-math economics.</p>

<p>At least, that’s what my friends at UChicago for econ PhDs have told me.</p>

12

<p>

Ph.D programs look for such focus within their own advanced programs, NOT within the 8 or so Economics courses that one takes as an undergraduate Economics major. If high school seniors, such as the OP, believe that at some point they’ll want to pursue a Ph.D. in a field such as Economics, there will be plenty of time for narrow and in-depth focus once they reach graduate school. Undergraduate school–even at the top Economics schools–is not when such in-depth specialization occurs, and top Ph.D. programs don’t expect to find it in the undergraduate curricula of their applicants.</p>

13

<p>Good response, 45Percenter. My kid chose to apply to CAS instead of Wharton after agonizing over the issue and is extremely glad he made the choice he did. I would go CAS if I were you.</p>

14

<p>The problem is that I’m still not sure. What if 3 years down the road I decide that I want to work on Wall Street more than I want to get a PhD in Econ?</p>

<p>I guess the question is really this: which would open more doors, Wharton or CAS?</p>

15

<p>Well, right now there are a lot of Wharton seniors not getting jobs. It’s pretty scary out there. The 3.8 and 3.9 GPA kids are landing the few jobs that remain in this economy. The others are seriously scrambling. A lot of CAS kids are going to grad/law school. My CAS kid has a job offer. (thank you, God)
Generally, I would say Wharton offers more doors in NYC. No doubt there. Outside of NYC, CAS will serve you almost as well except for the real finance-oriented positions.</p>

16

<p>what is this nonsense about HPSM+chicago…???</p>

<p>the top 2 econ programs are chicago, MIT followed closely by princeton and stanford. harvard, pfff, not impressed.</p>

17

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<p>Then you take your Penn CAS degree and go to Wall Street, just like all the other Ivy Leaguers with non-business degrees do. Why this is so hard to comprehend I will never know</p>

18

<p>^because wharton places better than penn cas on wall street.</p>

19

<p>^lol why did this even need to be said? bagels sounds bitter about something.</p>

20

<p>MyBlsflHrt wrote: "I guess the question is really this: which would open more doors, Wharton or CAS? "</p>

<p>CAS Math, then CAS Physics/Chem/Science, then Wharton. That is an educated guess based on what I observed in business school.</p>