<p>I'm trying to decide where to apply ED and I'm having a really hard time.
Initially I decided I wanted to apply to Wharton ED but Ross was my top choice because I love the campus at michigan and their sports culture. I have a low shot of getting into Wharton, but I would take Wharton over anything.</p>
<p>But I also really like Vanderbilt and I like Northwestern but they don't have business but I know they have econ and at vandy you can minor in managerial studies. Also if I really like Penn I can apply to CAS econ with a better chance of getting in ED, and hopefully try to transfer to Wharton if I have the GPA.</p>
<p>I have to apply to these schools ED because for me applying regular would be very difficult.</p>
<p>I know that Ross is EA so I can apply regardless, but I know it is very selective there too.</p>
<p>Basically I just want to be able to be in a good spot for the finance industry after undergrad and get a good starting job and I know there is top recruiting at Wharton and Ross.</p>
<p>I just don't know what is best for me. I've had straight A's since freshmen year and have taken the hardest classes possible but I have a 32 currently and am retaking. My subject scores were strong - 770 Math 2, 780 US, 740 Chem. A priority for me was a sports culture like Michigan's with their tailgates and sports teams but Vanderbilt has that too and Northwestern has sports. Penn not so much, but they have fun. Just I've worked so hard in high school (like everyone else here) and I don't want it to go to waste. </p>
<p>If your goal is a Wall Street job, try on the various school forums to find out what Wall Street recruiting is like at each school. I.e. do they take 30-40% of the graduating class (e.g. at Princeton), or do they put students through a super-selective recruiting process and take just a few (e.g. at Berkeley), or do they not recruit at all (e.g. at most schools)?</p>
<p>If your goal is a PhD in economics, look for a math-oriented economics department (with intermediate microeconomics and econometrics courses with math prerequisites higher than frosh calculus and/or advanced mathematical economics courses) and good math and statistics departments.</p>
<p>Ross is at least on par with Upenn CAS and is definitely ahead of Northwestern Econ in terms of recruiting for high end finance and consulting.</p>
<p>The real list would be more like:
Wharton > Ross > Upenn Econ > Northwestern Econ > Michigan Econ = Vanderbilt Econ</p>
<p>That said, I don’t even know what this discussion is about. Why are you applying ED to ANY of these schools when you indicated Ross was your first choice? If Ross is your first choice, apply EA there, an RD to everywhere else. Honestly, I wouldn’t even bother with Vanderbilt if I were you. </p>
<p>You want sports and excellent recruiting. Ross couldn’t be a better fit for you.</p>
<p>I agree that Penn is the clear #1. And a concern with Ross is that there are very few preferential admits – most students apply after freshman year. I know a couple of people who wanted to study business, went to UM, and then did not get into Ross. You can still study economics if you don’t get into Ross, but an economics major and a business major are different.</p>
<p>I think you can apply to Wharton ED and send an application in early to UM which (I think) is more of a modified rolling admission.</p>
<p>You might also consider Notre Dame if you want excellent academics, excellent sports, and a school which has direct admits to the business school.</p>
<p>Northwestern does have “business” program for undergrads. It’s just not a degree-granting program; nonetheless, it is MORE rigorous than any bachelor program in business. The “business” there is either financial economics or managerial analytics. The core courses are all graduate level courses; the pre-requisites are quant-heavy:</p>
<p>I second Sam; take a look at the Kellogg CPU program. It equips you with the right knowledge and prepares you well for recruiting; and it won’t compromise your liberal arts education (if in WCAS). Also, Northwestern has one of the best economics departments in the world, while Penn and Michigan’s are very solid too.</p>
<p>Obviously, Wharton is on a class of its own - but otherwise, I would put Penn econ, NU econ, and Michigan Ross on the same level (Vanderbilt very slightly below).</p>
<p>If Wall Street is the OP’s goal, I agree with Pat1120’s order, except I would put Northwestern Econ over Penn Econ. Wharton is the clear choice, with Ross being the clear #2. Northwestern Econ would be 3rd and it would be a third way tie for fourth place between Michigan, Penn and Vanderbilt Econ. </p>
<p>It should be noted that a motivated and resourceful student at any of those universities should be able to land a Wall Street job upon graduation, but the process is made significantly easier for Wharton and Ross students.</p>
<p>I don’t know if i’d put one over the other. A big thing is that Penn Econ could be supplanted with Wharton classes, as our friend 45 Percenter often likes to note. I suppose Sam would note, as he has above, that NU students could get the Kellog certificate to supplant their econ. I think a good argument could be given each way to put one over the other. To have a meaningful discussion, though, we’d need to find out how well Penn CAS students do compared to Wharton students compared to NU Kellog students compared to NU’s version of CAS.</p>
<p>I looked at the data a couple of years ago. The majority of Penn CAS students who were placed in Wall Street firms were part of the Huntsman Program (i.e., Wharton students). As a rule, and Penn is no exception here, most undergraduate recruitment activity will take place at the Business school at universities that have undergraduate business programs.</p>
<p>UPenn’s career data indicates that regardless of what you study , you still have a shot at a finance/consulting job. Even those with sociology/psychology/French Studies degrees get such jobs</p>
<p>I generally tend to believe people who attended a school than those who did not.</p>
<p>With respect to Alexandre’s comment, I am in the middle of the fence. I saw a couple of people get jobs in finance who were not in the business school (were most recruiting occured). They studied Math, sociology, government e.t.c</p>
<p>However, 99% of my classmates who were not in the business school had never heard of investment banking and had no interest in working in banking. Those who applied, and prepared for it, got opportunities at least at lower tier banks.</p>
<p>I guess it would the same at Penn. Recruitment activity does not occur just predominantly at the business school. Just that the level of interest across schools are different.</p>
<p>S was Econ major at Penn. Successfully recruited and now working as analyst in IB. Penn recruitment isn’t school specific - employers don’t only recruit at Wharton. The system is that all students at Penn (across schools) may apply for interviews with all employers recruiting at Penn. I’m sure there are employers who are particularly interested in filling positions with Wharton students, but all students can apply for those positions. The presence of Wharton at Penn is a big advantage to students in CAS who are interested in finance positions because Wharton lures many, many employers to recruit at Penn. S was another of those students who chose the flexibility of CAS, but supplemented his major & minor there with courses from Wharton. I can’t compare Penn to the other schools you’re considering, but it’s a mistake to think that you need to be in Wharton at Penn to successfully compete for these jobs.</p>
I don’t know what data you looked at, but these conclusions are incorrect. First, there are only about 45 students per class year in the Huntsman Program, whereas 18% of CAS students in the Class of 2012 who got full-time jobs (as opposed to going straight to grad school)–or SEVERAL HUNDRED graduates–got them in the financial services industry. Another 19% of them–or ANOTHER SEVERAL HUNDRED–got jobs in management consulting. And only 95 of the reporting graduates had dual degrees from both CAS and Wharton (including the 45 in Huntsman, since Penn undergrads also can obtain dual degrees from CAS and Wharton without being in the Huntsman Program):</p>
<p>Furthermore, a review of the last 8 years of Career Plans Survey Reports for CAS (covering the graduating classes of 2005-2012) similarly reveals that CAS students did extremely well in placement in the financial services and management consulting industries, and the overwhelming majority of those did NOT also get a degree from Wharton, through the Huntsman Program or otherwise:</p>
<p>Moreover, as has been pointed out previously by Penn students, grads, and affiliates (e.g., parents) in this thread and elsewhere on CC, there are no separate employment recruiting facilities for Wharton undergrads, and all undergraduate recruiting at Penn is handled by a single, unified Career Services office. In other words, CAS students have the same access to on-campus recruiting as do Wharton students, and they generally take great advantage of that (remember that there are only about 2400 students total graduating from all 4 of Penn’s undergraduate schools each year, and many of those go straight to grad school). As many familiar with Penn CAS have pointed out on CC over the years, CAS students benefit greatly from the presence of Wharton and the on-campus recruiting it attracts, as they are the clients and beneficiaries of the very same Career Services office as are the Wharton undergrads.</p>
<p>45percenter, those were the figures I remember seeing. Focusing on the OP for one minute, he clearly said he wants a job in finance, not just any good corporate job. If he asked for general job placements, I would agree 100% with you. But he was specifically referring to finance. Out of 100 Econ majors from Penn that reported their placements, only 11 were placed in major IBanks and only 1 was placed at one of the top 3 MC firms (BCG). That’s not bad mind you, but let us be honest now, the majority of Econ majors at Penn (easily more than 50%) who seek jobs at graduation aim to work for one of the top 3 MC firms (Bain, BCG or McKinsey), or for a BB IBanks. The placement rates (of students seeking those jobs to those who are actually placed) from Wharton will be significantly higher than those of the CAS. Of course, I am not CAS expert. If you say that CAS students are just as highly recruited as Wharton students, I will defer to your judgement. I just don’t think the data supports such a claim.</p>
<p>Runners2, I was also placed into an IBank when I graduated from Michigan (Econ, not Business). However, out of several dozen LSA students seeking such jobs, only a fraction were placed. Not so for Business school students, where the vast majority of graduates seeking careers in finance were placed in IBanks, most of them in BB firms. </p>
<p>However, as 45percenter seems to indicated, that is not the case at Penn, where IBanks and Management Consulting firms do not distinguish between CAS and Wharton students. As such, the OP is indeed better off applying ED to CAS as it is slightly easier to get into. In the case of Michigan, however, I definitely recommend Ross because those who graduate from Ross have significantly better odds of being placed in IBanks.</p>