Penn recruiting gay apps?

[mom2collegekids]

<p>Are students supposed to provide evidence of their sexual orientation?</p>

<p>that’s why the mere suggestion or hint of giving some kind of preference is ridiculous.</p>

[monstor344]

<p>Though NSM, I’m sure you could expose the faux-gays at the interview; from what I’ve heard you’re pretty good at that ;)</p>

[midatlmom]

<p>I think that some of you, particularly monstor344, are misreading the article and/or making assumptions about what is being said. Penn is talking about an outreach to already admitted students. Just like the university asks dancers to contact admitted students who have expressed interest in dance or math majors to contact other potential math majors, it asks students active in gay groups to contact admitted students who have shown an interest in such groups. </p>

<p>And mom2collegekids, there is nothing in the article suggesting that being gay would be a “hook” or would give a student an edge in admissions.</p>

[Forkingjamie]

<p>No one read the article (including me), but it turned into an interesting conversation</p>

[anon67455021]

<p>Here’s how it would go down.</p>

<ol>
<li>Person sees box that asks sexual orientation and checks gay, thinking it will improve chances.</li>
<li>Person accidentally slips that he/she has a girlfriend/boyfriend of the opposite sex.</li>
<li>Person claims that he/she changed their mind.</li>
<li>???</li>
<li>PROFIT!!!</li>
</ol>

[warblersrule]

<p>

@Inside Higher Ed

At many colleges, it’s a standard part of the recruiting process once applicants are admitted. Current students who share individual traits or academic interests help reach out to prospective students with similar backgrounds or interests. So the young woman who expresses an interest in engineering will hear from a female junior in engineering. A black admit might hear from a black student, and so forth. The idea is that these students may be uniquely well positioned to answer questions and to make the case that the college is a good place to be a female engineer, a black undergrad, or whatever.</p>

<p>This year, the University of Pennsylvania is applying the idea to admitted applicants who are gay. Several experts on college admissions say that they do not know of any other colleges that have taken this step.

Penn has long been the Ivy with the most institutional support for LGBT students. I’m pleased to see it taking another stride in the right direction.</p>

<p>That said, I am not sure it is the only college to institute such a strategy. The update in the article notes that Dartmouth does something similar, and I can vouch that Duke does. (In fact, it has an admissions officer who specifically deals with LGBT students.)</p>

[juillet]

<p>The admissions process is a process of discrimination; it is impossible to divorce discrimination from it. College admissions officers must discriminate between thousands of applicants on a variety of factors; race, gender, and sexual identity are just a few of them.</p>

<p>You could lie about anything on your app. It’s not like you have to provide a picture. A white kid could easily check the “black” box to attempt to get whatever boost he thinks exists from being black in the admissions process.</p>

<p>Elyahu, there’s nothing unusual about that. Sexual identity is fluid, and that’s not restricted to the ages of 17-18. A lot of people change their identities in later ages, too.</p>

[monstor344]

<p>

I think that some of you, particularly monstor344, are misreading the article and/or making assumptions about what is being said. Penn is talking about an outreach to already admitted students.

I think that some of you, particularly midatlmom, are misreading my posts:

“Further, he said that his group will be asking the Common Application to add a sexual orientation question…and also consider the diversity of their applicant pools in the same way they do now based on race and ethnicity, gender, geography and academics.”

Sorry I wasn’t clear enough; my hypothetical scenario focused on this issue.

</p>

[speedo]

<p>There may be hope for me yet at the elite colleges. Perhaps there will be an outreach for 60 year old beer bellied white guys with bad knees and E.D. I could write about it extensively in my essay, might make up for my mediocre sats. Penn here I come!</p>

[monstor344]

<p>speedo, the ED part was a bit much, no? \clipart{haha}
(not sure if that smiley will work)
(it didn’t…here’s a instead)</p>

<p>Also, while I don’t think my posts have been irrelevant, I understand that this is not the main focus of the article and so I’ll lay back/maybe carry the discussion of “affirmative action in xyz” elsewhere.</p>

[fauve]

<p>I agree with you monstor, that such a question on the common app would have a whole boatload of students thinking…‘hmm… I did once think that football player(or cheerleader) was cute…so maybe I’m gay enough to mark the box!’. </p>

<p>There are plenty of places to express one’s gayness on the apps, through essays, ECs, etc., and I don’t see how it is relevant to academic admissions.</p>

[Sdma89]

<p>I think that this is a good idea.</p>

[drnoeyedea]

<p>juliet: Actually when I applied to Penn, I had to submit a picture. </p>

<p>On topic- what the heck??!! This is so messed up.</p>

[neltharion]

<p>Huh. I predict there will be plenty of people checking off the “gay” or “bi” box under the impression it’ll give them an admissions boost. In any case, most people are at least a little bit bisexual, so they wouldn’t even be lying.</p>

<p>If they do go through with this, I hope they include an “other” and/or “asexual” option as well. Don’t be ignoring the other minorities, people; that’d just be rude.</p>

[Vortar]

<p>

There are plenty of places to express one’s gayness on the apps, through essays, ECs, etc., and I don’t see how it is relevant to academic admissions.

fauve is right. the checkbox would introduce too much controversy; it’s unecessary. </p>

<p>there’s already been quite a few articles pondering affirmative action for gay students (including Penn that mentioned it has no such AA policies):
[Pondering</a> affirmative action for gays | The Daily Pennsylvanian](<a href=“http://www.dailypennsylvanian.com/node/50753]Pondering”>http://www.dailypennsylvanian.com/node/50753)
[A</a> Box of Their Own? | The Harvard Crimson](<a href=“http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2006/10/13/a-box-of-their-own-discrimination/]A”>A Box of Their Own? | Opinion | The Harvard Crimson)</p>

[warblersrule]

<p>It’s amusing to see how many people think applicants would only lie about sexual orientation. juillet is correct here.</p>

<p>Is everyone so naive as to think that nobody lies about race/ethnicity? Heck, I’ve seen several people on CC alone admit to it. </p>

<p>

@fauve

There are plenty of places to express one’s gayness on the apps, through essays, ECs, etc., and I don’t see how it is relevant to academic admissions.

Extracurriculars? Wrestling for girls and cheerleading for guys, I assume? :rolleyes:</p>

<p>I don’t see why LGBT students should have to waste their essay by writing about their orientation when a simple check-box would work equally well. Essays like that get very monotonous for the admissions officers, in any case.</p>

<p>

@fauve

I don’t see how it is relevant to academic admissions.

[ul][<em>]LGB students have suicide rates 2-3x higher than their heterosexual peers.
[</em>]At least 50% of transgender teens have tried to commit suicide.
[<em>]28% of LGBT students drop out of high school, compared to 9% of heterosexual students.
[</em>]90% of LGBT students have reported bullying in high school.
[li]LGBT teens make up 40% of homeless teens.[/ul]</p>[/li]
<p>If race/ethnicity is included on applications, I see no reason why orientation can’t be. I’m not proposing affirmative action, of course, but I think it’s very much a good thing that they’re reaching out to those applicants.</p>

[monstor344]

<p>

Is everyone so naive as to think that nobody lies about race/ethnicity? Heck, I’ve seen several people on CC alone admit to it.

Kid in my school did it; now attends a HYPSM. I think he was even called out on it and still his acceptance wasn’t rescinded regardless. The thing is, a Chinese/Caucasian applicant will have difficulty passing as an African-American at the interview, from the dean’s report, etc. It’s difficult to pull off and not to mention tremendously risky; I have no idea why the aforementioned guy’s acceptance wasn’t rescinded.

If race/ethnicity is included on applications, I see no reason why orientation can’t be. I’m not proposing affirmative action, of course, but I think it’s very much a good thing that they’re reaching out to those applicants.

* LGB students have suicide rates 2-3x higher than their heterosexual peers.
* At least 50% of transgender teens have tried to commit suicide.
* 28% of LGBT students drop out of high school, compared to 9% for heterosexual students.
* 90% of LGBT students have reported bullying in high school.
* LGBT teens make up 40% of homeless teens.

Fair enough, colleges can reach out to LGBTs, though I don’t think a check-box is reaching out (it might even make some applicants feel like they’ll be ostracized by admissions, in fact). But once again how is this relevant to academic admissions?</p>

[applicannot]

<p>

Fair enough, colleges can reach out to LGBTs, though I don’t think a check-box is reaching out

</p>

<p>I agree with this all the way. Colleges can reach out to certain kinds of applicants without specifically asking them what kind of applicant they are. If they want certain applicants, create an environment suitable for them and then they will apply.</p>

[warblersrule]

<p>

@monstor344

Fair enough, colleges can reach out to LGBTs, though I don’t think a check-box is reaching out

Those students can received targeted mailings, be connected with current students, etc. </p>

<p>The check-box simply allows colleges to know which students to target.</p>

<p>

@monstor344

But once again how is this relevant to academic admissions?

Since when is admissions based solely on academics? </p>

<p>Geographical location, race/ethnicity, legacy status, first generation status, and income can all play a role in admissions. Athletic and musical ability are highly prized in admissions but have nothing to do with academics. Why is it sexual orientation in admissions that makes people uncomfortable?</p>

<p>Anyway, the connection is reasonably clear, if you’d take the time to ponder the implications of those statistics. Out LGBT students in high school often face a tremendous amount of adversity both in the classroom and at home – often far more so than URMs, I’d wager.</p>

[monstor344]

<p>

I’m not proposing affirmative action, of course

Why is it sexual orientation in admissions that makes people uncomfortable?

Huh?</p>

<p>And sexual orientation in admissions is strange because 1) LGBTs are quite healthily represented at colleges that practice affirmative action of any sort, and 2) There is no way of verifying sexual orientation; even the applicant sometimes doesn’t really know.</p>

<p>

Out LGBT students in high school often face a tremendous amount of adversity both in the classroom and at home – often far more so than URMs, I’d wager.

Huh. My gay friends seem okay near the top of the class at our rather competitive HS. What is this adversity you speak of, besides perhaps emotional turmoil completely unrelated to schoolwork? Should kids who say they have been depressed also get an admissions boost? By the way let’s stay away from race/ethnicity right now because URMs get in for an entirely different reason (which I disagree with but that’s for another thread).</p>