Penn vs Stanford vs Columbia

<p>I have a two questions about these schools. First one question is which school has better programs. Also, does anyone here attend Stanford, and came from a state that was really far away from California? If so, also, were your parents like 'Hell no, that's too far away!' and if that was the case, how did you manage to convince them otherwise? And before anyone ask why I'm asking all this is because I really would like to go to either Columbia or Stanford or Penn, but I live in new jersey.</p>

<p>THE SCHOOL I WANT IS
DIVERSITY
WORKLOAD CHALLENGING BUT NOT TO THE POINT WHERE I WORK HARD AND GET C+OR B
PARTY OR HAVE A LIFE( DONT WANT TO BE BORED THERE)</p>

<p>Columbia and Stanford give some of the TOUGHEST courseloads out there. Don't expect to be socializing every weekend because Columbia and Stanford students have a ton of work to do. I'd definitely say Columbia is one of the most difficult Ivies, while Stanford just has a lot of work. Both are pretty diverse and have good social scenes if you can find the time. All have great programs it depends on what you're looking for.</p>

<p>Convincing my parents to let me apply to Stanford took a long time. They still try to convince me to take it off my list occasionally but they know that I'm sticking to my guns. They admitted defeat last month when they just couldn't argue me out of it. Plus one I showed them Stanford's financial aid policy they warmed up a bit. :D</p>

<p>All three schools are excellent choices. I think Columbia and Penn might have more stuff to do since they're near large cities but to be honest you'll find parties at pretty much any college you choose to go to.</p>

<p>I want to major in international relations or sociology
What makes the workload tough?
The teachers or the test/exams?</p>

<p>Random poorly-organized thoughts:</p>

<p>When it comes to sociology, all 3 are equally formidable at the grad and undergrad level.</p>

<p>When it comes to IR, Columbia and Stanford stand out over Penn because they have actual IR grad schools, whereas Penn's IR program is strictly for undergrads. My own time at Penn as an IR major was excellent. With no grads around, attention and budgetary resources were lavished on us undergrads. I had a first-name relationship with the program director and we still keep in touch. The major is about as rigorous as you can get for a liberal arts major (requiring a year-long thesis and coursework/GPA prereqs to be allowed into the major). My peers and I have gone on to very interesting and selective grad schools or jobs in the public as well as private sectors.</p>

<p>I think you'll get a fuller, more "rah rah college" experience at Stanford and Penn. Columbia, well, read this. The</a> Eye : Malaise on Campus</p>

<p>Also, Columbia technically doesn't have an IR major...</p>

<p>All 3 schools are pretty damn sweet, though... You'd be hard-pressed to go wrong with any of them...and lucky if you could get into more than 1 ;)</p>

<p>Stanford is amazing socially, they have D1-A football which makes it a great atmosphere to live in...also the professors are more accessible and academics are very strong</p>

<p>UPenn is a frat-dominated campus and in Philly and Columbia is in NYU, however, if you want a good life on campus and a tight student body, go to Stanford</p>

<p>

With only 30% of males and 26% of females in fraternities/sororities (College</a> Search - University of Pennsylvania - Penn - Housing & Campus Life), Penn is not exactly a frat-dominated campus.</p>

<p>26-30% are large percentages for any university, though. Wouldn't say it's dominated, but the frat presence is greater there than at a lot of prestigious universities.</p>

<p>I didn't go to Columbia for undergrad, but I can give you an outsider/grad student's perspective on diversity -- it's pretty diverse here for a prestigious university. This is one of the first places I've been where I've seen so many kinds of people -- I grew up in New York but relocated to Atlanta when I was 12, and I missed the diversity of New York. Both the city and the campus are diverse (although obviously New York City is much more diverse than Columbia). I easily hear 2 or 3 languages besides English spoken around me on campus every day.</p>

<p>The faculty are not so diverse, racially speaking. My secondary department has two faculty members of color -- well, three (one is Asian, one is African American and is only there half time, and they just hired a new African American woman) out of 24. (I'm at the school of public health half time, though, and THAT is VERY diverse. Many professors of color and LGBT professors.)</p>

<p>Can't speak to the undergrad workload or quality of life, but as a graduate student we have a lot of fun -- work hard, play hard. It's one of the reasons I came to Columbia to begin with.</p>

<p>If you define diversity by the color of one's skin, then all 3 are equally "diverse"</p>

<p>I would agree with juillet that there is no better school than Columbia...for grad school. Not so much for undergrad. Just ask Slipper1234....</p>

<p>When I said "diverse" in my second paragraph, I meant holistically -- just different kinds of people with different perspectives in general. When I spoke about the faculty, I did focus on racial diversity, but the faculty aren't very diverse in other areas either (LGBT, disability, age, geographic in the sense that the majority of them are American, etc.). This is only the psychology department I'm speaking of; I can't speak to other departments besides the medical center.</p>

<p>Yeah, Columbia's a great place to be for graduate school. It's awesome and we've got good grad rankings. It could probably be a good place to be for undergrad, too, it just depends on what you're looking for.</p>

<p>What is the average grade in Stanford, is it on a curve?</p>

<p>bumpbumpbump</p>

<p>race64,
Re the matter of distance, I think that this will have to be a personal choice. Some kids (and their families) find it no problem at all to go thousands of miles for college while others stress at the idea of being more than a few miles away. IMO going to college in another part of the country can be very broadening and will undoubtedly give you new (and usually better) perspective on the people, places, businesses, etc. in different regions of the country. </p>

<p>As for the actual choice among Columbia, U Penn and Stanford, I think that Stanford wins in a walk. There is very little that any of the Ivies can offer that Stanford cannot match and yet Stanford also provides so much more, including </p>

<ol>
<li><p>An outstanding social environment including close proximity to San Francisco, not to mention the fact that Palo Alto/Bay Area is a far cry different from Columbia's Harlem/NYC and U Penn's West Phily/Philadelphia. If the gritty urban scene is your thing, Columbia and U Penn would be better, but if not, Stanford and the Bay Area is a far prettier scene</p></li>
<li><p>The athletic life is completely different. Stanford has been the nation's premier athletic school for fourteen consecutive years and offers a great and vibrant athletic scene. It is not even remotely close.</p></li>
<li><p>Don't underestimate the value of being close to Silicon Valley. If you want investment banking as a career, few would quibble that Columbia and U Penn would be excellent choices (though many are also recruited out of Stanford as well). But if you want something in the high tech/emerging energy field, then California is a pretty great place to be and is a much more innovative, creative business environment.</p></li>
<li><p>The weather differences are immense, particularly if you enjoy being outside. Wet, humid, and cold with average winter high temps in the low 40s is what you will find at Columbia and U Penn. At Stanford, it will rain in the winter in the Bay Area, but much of the school year on the Peninsula will experience clear, sunny skies and temps in the high 60s/low 70s. </p></li>
<li><p>If you really want to convince your parents of the genius of choosing Stanford over Columbia and U Penn, take them along for your visit. My guess is that they'll be househunting in the Bay Area by the end of their trip. :)</p></li>
</ol>

<p>IMO, Stanford is the best school in the USA in the best setting in the USA.</p>

<p>Just remember Stanford's outrageous grade inflation.</p>

<p>bumpbumpbump</p>

<p>Why don't you wait to see which of them (if any) you get into, and then start this thread in April =)</p>

<p>Ahem. I went to Penn over Stanford and I'd do it again in a heartbeat (though I'd rather go to Stanford than Columbia for undergrad)</p>

<p>Palo Alto cannot even begin to compare to New York or even Philadelphia in terms of the culinary, cultural, recreational etc opportunities of urban living.</p>

<p>Yes, there is SanFran, but Stanford is not "close to" San Francisco in the same sense that Columbia and Penn are "close to" NYC and Philly (heck they're not "close to" them, they're IN them, connected by mass transit and even walking distance.</p>

<p>Athletic scene? Who cares? I go watch Penn beat Princeton in the Palestra (and watch in vain every time they get into the NCAA tournament) and that's enough of college sports life for me.</p>

<p>I don't want to be a "green" engineer, nor an investment banker. And I am neither.</p>

<p>I happen to enjoy the changing seasons...autumn, winter, spring all have their charms. I currently live in a city with a climate similar to that of Stanford--nice and mild all year round--and it gets old...there's something particularly depressing about listening to Christmas songs and wearing shorts.</p>

<p>My personal opinion would be Penn > Stanford > Columbia.</p>

<p>But that is my personal opinion. If you want more sports, less snow, less urban excitement, and more earthquakes, then Stanford is for you. You can't really go wrong with any of these schools...of course for most people, you can't even get into any of these schools....so apply to all of them just to have a chance at one of them.</p>

<p>I agree with #16. All three are very good. The odds of getting into all three are pretty low for even the best applicants. </p>

<p>If you do get into all three, you should base your selection on what you prioritize in your recreational and social life. Stanford offers good weather and outdoors-oriented experiences. The other two offer more urban experiences.</p>

<p>stanford is not urban??? Never mind i would choose penn</p>

<p>
[quote]
WORKLOAD CHALLENGING BUT NOT TO THE POINT WHERE I WORK HARD AND GET C+OR B

[/quote]
Then I'd suggest you apply to different schools ... less elite schools. All 3 of these schools are terrific schools and you (along with all other applicants) would be lucky to be accepted. These schools reject almost 90% of their applicants ... everyone who gets in is very very smart and accomplished. While the overall grade averages are pretty high there is some dispersion of grades (not of ton of Ds and Cs but certainly a fair number of Bs). Given a student population of highly skilled students who do you think gets the Bs ... the kids less smart (not really a possibility) ... it's the kids who don't work as hard (or take killer schedules). I am not saying you need to work 15 hours a day to get good grades but don't think the work load at these schools to get good grades is equivalent as required at schools not as tough. If you want to not work hard, party, and get all As ... pick a different level of schools.</p>