<p>IrishThund3r, just curious, where did you go to school and what is your career?</p>
<p>None of my high school teachers went to top colleges either, but top schools are not known for producing teachers.</p>
<p>I'm actually a student.</p>
<p>I've met far too many people I highly respect to believe that Ivy League is the only way to be happy and successful, or to have great connections.</p>
<p>I think nonelitist summed it up very well.</p>
<p>I agree with IrishThund3r. Ivy League is not the only way to go. I believe working hard at any school and making good impressions regardless of where yo went to school is the way to make a name for yourself.</p>
<p>I think the consensus is that the probability of success after graduating from a reputable school (ie. Stanford) vs some college (ie. Something Something in the middle of Something) is greater.</p>
<p>You can be successful in either, its just on average, more people do better when graduating from better schools.</p>
<p>Its just like statistics. Does flipping a coin mean exactly 50/50? No. But on average... blah blah blah.</p>
<p>Irish, I'm not surprised you're a student. Let's resume this conversation in 10 years...</p>
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<p>Are such colleges viewed as tickets to becoming rich? If so, my guess is that the students/parents will be disappointed because from what I've seen, many of the rich people who went to HPYS were born into rich families. Others chose professions that allowed them to become reasonably well off such as being doctors or corporate lawyers. In many cases, they could have attained similar professions/wealth by getting top grades at a less highy ranked college and then going to law school or medical school. Students who aspire to be social workers, teachers, ministers, nonprofit directors aren't likely to become rich no matter what colleges they attend.</p>
<p>Are the colleges viewed as having connections that will pay off? I imagine that if one lives or plans to live in D.C., Boston, Philadelphia or NYC, being an Ivy grad will pay off in terms of being able to meet lots of influential people at alumni club meetings. However, as a person who in addition to having lived in D.C. has also lived in several places far from the Ivy towers, I can say that perhaps in most states, those who have attended state flagship U often have far more connections than do Ivy alum simply because of the size of state flagship u.</p>
<p>For example, where I live is a medium sized college town far from Ivies and similar colleges. The people running the local colleges and the city government as well as our major places of work are virtually all graduates of state flagship U or the state public that is the flagship wannabe. The few Ivy grads tend to teach at the universities, and have little power or influence locally.</p>
<p>Is it an a guaranteed excellent academic education? Nope. College is basically what you make it. Many of the Ivies and similar colleges aren't known for their excellence of teaching. True, one may be able to take classes with more Nobel Prize winners than the typical university has. However, that doesn't mean that one will be mentored by them. One probably has a far better chance of getting mentored by an expert by attending a less renowned college known for its nurturing and teaching excellence. Lots of the education at places like HPYS is what one learns by interacting with large groups of peers who are creative, brilliant, independent, etc. This is wonderful for people who best learn through peer interaction. It's not the optimal learning situation for people who best learn through close relationships with nurturing faculty.</p>
<p>Incidentally, I'm a Harvard grad who is glad that I went to Harvard. What has stood me well for a lifetime is the exposure to such fascinating peers who felt that they could do anything. Their hubris about being willing to try anything, and Harvard's allowing them to do that, broadened my perspective forever about what's possible for me and others. I also left Harvard with a lifetime commitment to community service, something that virtually all students there do by choice.</p>
<p>I chose not to enter high paying fields, so I'm not rich (which doesn't bother me). I live in a part of the country that values State Flagship U and State Flagship Wannabee, so my Harvard degree doesn't give me connections where I live. My thoughts are that students in my area who center their lives around getting into Harvard and whose parents take out second mortgages to finance Harvard may feel that they got a bad deal if the students return after graduation to this city because they'll notice that the people who have the connections, respect and power are the ones who had the low priced education at State Flagship and State Flagship Wannabee.
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I also left Harvard with a lifetime commitment to community service, something that virtually all students there do by choice.
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<p>Well that's a knee-slapper right there...</p>
<p>You could resume this conversation with any of the most influential people in my smallish town, or you could talk to any of the lawyers and doctors who make $150k+ salaries that live in my area, not to mention all the people who didn't graduate college at all and still do alright. I know one kid whose Dad never went to college and can afford to send his son to Duke at full cost.</p>
<p>I'm not saying you don't get connections and opportunities from Harvard, but I am saying that it doesn't matter that much. Obviously, the people who go to Harvard, Yale, and Ivy Leagues are so intelligent anyway, it wouldn't matter if they went to State U, community college, or wherever. The most successful and elite students are often very successful out of college, no matter where they went. </p>
<p>Min H. Kao is one of the founders of Garmin GPS systems, and graduated from The University of Tennessee engineering program. He was intelligent, and he did extraordinary things with an engineering degree from State U. Tom Hanks attended a community college, and he is a wildly successful actor. </p>
<p>You just cannot tell me that you must graduate from an Ivy League school to be a leader in business, politics, engineering, or whatever your field is. There are too many exceptions for it to be a rule.</p>
<p>Connections matter more than the college you go to. Now, maybe some colleges have teachers and counselors who have better connections with the "job world." Fair enough.</p>
<p>Right now I'm in community college and my teachers have great connections with the "job world" which have led directly to two jobs (one for the school year and one for summer.) I asked a guy already in the field if there were any 4-year colleges that were especially good/bad and the only thing he suggested was avoiding one state college that he felt didn't have as strong a program as the others.</p>
<p>Which brings me to another point: Just because Ivy league schools have the best "overall" reputation doesn't mean another, less-known school can't kick their Ivy butts in a specific field.</p>
<p>No one is saying you must graduate from a top school! The majority of highly successful people did not. It would be impossible for them to have as less than 1% of the population attends top schools.</p>
<p>Your position has been that it does not help to graduate from a top school. My position is that it helps greatly.</p>
<p>Let's take the example of MBA programs. Every one of them probably produces many future millionaires. But the vast majority of those who attend Harvard, Stanford or Wharton become millionaires. For one Harvard class that recently published stats it was 75% ten years after graduation. Find me a state school with a stat anywhere close.</p>
<p>And for undergrad:</p>
<p>But I'm not convinced that it is due to the institution. It seems like it would rely mostly on the individual. Those same millionaires could have done their research elsewhere and still made tons of money. You are saying that Ivy League institutions greatly help to make better pay and more successful people, but I think people with similar stats and ambitions at less well ranked schools will fair just as well as Ivy Leaguers. Likewise, any of the smartest people in the Ivy League could go to another school, and I'm sure be just as well off.</p>
<p>Trust me, the contacts made in school are a big part of it. I realize you are in high school. Soon you'll see how small the world really is. The 1% that go to the top schools bump into each other at every turn if they pursue careers traditional at those schools.</p>
<p>exactly</p>
<p>if you go to a top school you are basically set to be sucessfully in whatever you plan to do.</p>
<p>Its a different crowd of people. As a high school senior, its VERY different for me. I am in the top 2.5% of my class of nearly 600. The attitude of people from the top 1% to top 2.5% already varies. From 2.5% to 10% you can really tell. I would say the normally intelligent population is within the top 25% of the class. </p>
<p>The fact that you go to a school with the top of the top is basically why people go to schools with names. You know people. If you don't know people, its harder to get "in". </p>
<p>Ie. I am hiring for a company I work for.
The first candidate is my friend Bob, who I met at "xx" prestigious college. Hes a hard worker, etc, and a good friend. Been there for me. etc.
The second candidate is a dude I dont know, but will only get to know in an interview session, but bright, likable, etc and more qualified (on paper).</p>
<p>If I only had one spot, I might just give it to my friend even though the second looks better on paper.</p>
<p>That sounds a lot like nepotism.</p>
<p>An Ivy League education isn't necessarily better educationally then, but it allows you into a circle of moneyed people you wouldn't have been offered admission to before?</p>
<p>Top colleges seek out people who do whatever they do extremely well. These people often go out into the world and continue doing what they do well. These are relatively small schools where a lot of bonding goes in between students and between students and the school itself. Graduates often remain loyal to the school and their fellow alum. </p>
<p>Alum also know the standards of the school and know it's a great place to find employees. It's also customary to take the call if a fellow alum calls for career advice or help. This is where the powerful networks come in.</p>
<p>These networks are not exclusive to ivy league or top schools. They tend to be developed at schools which have strong spirit. IMO, the best way to judge this is alumni giving rates.</p>
<p>Well, IrishThund3r, I guess you can say it is nepotism. Especially in small companies, I know my dad knows people in China who are VP's and such just because of such relationships. (with Ivy's, and top schools in Taiwan or w.e).</p>
<p>As the old cliche goes, the real world isn't fair. Sometimes the people with the job aren't the best qualified. And life goes on.</p>
<p>I actually went on the Princeton University site and Harvard University site and Smith College site and looked at where the professors there got their B.A.s. A lot of them had done undergraduate at an Ivy League School, but there were a lot who had gone to small LACs and still ended up in the same place. So, while ivy league schools may help build connections, dedicated people who choose others schools often also succeed in life.</p>
<p>Most Ivy league students are respected and have better opportunity because they actually got into the ivy. It requires a lot of hard work to be accepted there, and it directly translates that the person will work hard and be dedicated to their job. While this positive stereotype is important, you can’t forget that its not about where you have been but about what YOU can do. The curriculum everywhere is about the same. If you study well in a state school and actually learn, you will go farther than the person who goes to Harvard and doesn’t put in that much work. Hard work translates into success, not the college you went to.</p>