I’m looking for some perspective from parents (or students) who’ve been through the freshman placement process. DD will be starting as a freshman at one of our highly regarded local BS’s and she just got her placement results for math and science: Geometry (requested Honors Geometry) and Physics (requested Honors Physics). I can’t figure out if she should appeal these decisions, but I am puzzled. DD has straight 100’s - actually higher. She scored a 97th percentile on the SSAT for math (with no studying). While I didn’t see her teachers’ recommendations, I’m reasonably sure they were stellar. The math placement test she took didn’t seem hard for her - she breezed through it and it looked correct to me (with one minor “correct but could be better” answer - which I did NOT point out to her , as it’s HER ability they’re evaluating, not mine). She doesn’t have to work at these subjects. She “gets it” as soon as any concept is presented. She likes doing the homework, but only does it because it’s required - not to understand the material better.
My DH and I are in STEM fields, and it honestly looks like DD may be headed to a similar profession. I don’t expect her to be an astrophysicist or to cure cancer or anything. But I do know I would have demanded to be placed in the most challenging math class available at her age.
What I’m trying to understand is… are the honors classes only for the kids who do math and robotics competitions or go to math camp every summer? Is it utterly ridiculous to expect an honors placement unless she is in the top 1% of the student body? Is an honors class that much more work than the standard class - as in, would she need to drop some of her cocurriculars/extracurriculars to keep up? She just wants to MOVE - to go at a fast pace and actually learn something, or better yet, learn a lot of something!
This is new territory for DH and I. No one in our families has ever been to a BS or any private high school. I don’t have many local friends who can give me accurate info, as they are only familiar with the LPS. While I want her to be appropriately challenged, I definitely do NOT want to burden her with unreasonable academic pressure. But I also don’t want her to miss out on a college or career opportunity many years from now, because her 9th grade math placement steered her into a track that doesn’t lead to those options.
So do I let her petition for the honors placements, or let her see how the first few weeks go?
Sheesh. I love how writing this out makes it seem like such a ridiculous and petty question… OK, I KNOW I should just let her see how the first weeks go. But I’m still curious. Why didn’t she get placed in the honors classes?
Why not wait and see how the classes feel to her, first? She also will be adjusting to a heavier course load and to living away from home. Why pile on the pressure and anxiety? If the classes too easy, she can talk to the teachers in the fall. Not sure I understand the urgency?
Thanks for your feedback and questions! Here’s some more info:
Her middle school did not offer honors anything, nor did they differentiate the classes or the homework. She did have differentiation in elementary, and thrived on it.
Her BS does not have honors tracks for humanities classes - but there are AP options and many electives for upperclassmen. As of last week, I would have guessed she would be on the AP track for English and probably for social studies - now I have no idea. We did discuss the work load, and encourage her to be selective - so she did NOT elect to choose honors foreign language for 9th.
She’ll be a day student, so there will certainly be adjustment, but she’s thrilled to have such a structured day and have nearly all her commitments in one place. She’s also the least anxious person I’ve ever met, and we’re all curious to see it the workload can actually ruffle her.
There’s no urgency, and she’s willing to wait for fall. Her perspective, and I agree, is that it’s easier to drop down than to move up and have to catch up. I was just looking for other BS parents to help me reset my own understanding of the academic environment.
In a boarding school with competitive admissions, regular classes are at a faster pace anyway. Are you worried she won’t get into MIT or Stanford if she is in regular Geometry freshman year? (FWIW, we know STEM majors at top schools who were in Algebra 1 or Algebra 2 in 9th grade…she is already ahead of many freshmen…)
I would talk to them in July or early August. It is easier for them to make changes now than after school starts. Also, like you said, it is easier to move down than move up.
Have you seen their tracking diagrams for each department? Try to find those, as it will help in understanding what is available…or you can figure it out from the course catalog.
I think it’s likely they are placing her based on their perceived rigor of her middle school as well as the rigor of the BS. If this is a school where the top math/science students gravitate, that could be a factor.
I would discuss it with the school. Honors math / science classes at a competitive private school would be an adjustment if the student did take top track classes at a private school in middle school grades. It is easier to move out of honors than into honors, but there may have been reasons why they didn’t place her in honors.
Here’s what we did to help our kiddo with choosing classes. 1. Mapped out the track. If you take A, Fresh year then you can take B, Sophomore year. You will realize pretty quickly that you CANNOT get to all places unless you start at honors Freshman year. We found this with Math and Science. You cannot do some AP science courses unless you are coming from honors science Freshman year. Likewise with math, although if you start at higher level math you can get to Calc AB even if you drop down Junior year. Would not have realized this without mapping it out. With that SSAT score, I am really surprised. I’ll bet the assignment was based on either, weak recommendations, weak middle school reputation, or lower grades than are normally accepted. Ask them the reason for the assignment. You are paying a lot of money and you are your daughter’s advocate. Waiting and seeing isn’t a good approach since it will be more difficult for her having missed even a week of class. Start her strong and she can drop down if needed. Also kids are very fragile in a new school the first couple of weeks, they will NOT want to rock the boat. So I would doubt they would be able to observe what the best level is for them.
Our kiddo got a perfect score in Math on the SSAT ( also zero prep) but interests are not in pure math/science so we also kept that in mind when going thru the course catalog. Plan is to start strong in STEM then gradually increase difficulty in other subjects. As a parent, I am not a fan of dozens of APs. So the plan is not to take the highest level in every class.
Your child needs your assistance in this. They might not want to sit down and talk about it ( ours didn’t) but it’s so important. You have the experience of having gone to high school. Even if you didn’t attend a private school or boarding school you know your child and you are a member of the community so you will be able to get answers. Don’t worry about asking questions. You do not want to find out Junior/Senior year that your kid cannot take their dream class because you let it ride Freshman year. Make the decision even if it’s the lower level class. The decision is yours (in the sense of your daughter’s with your input).
Good luck.
When you say your middle school did not have tracks, that is probably the reason they did not put her in honors. You should probably ask that she be put in honors based on the test scores, as it is much easier to move down than move up.
I’d posit that that is not the reason. Most middle schools don’t have honors courses. And the ones that do, with the possible exception of accelerated math, get an eyeroll from me; Grade 5 honors art? That’s up there with high schools that offer honors PE. Please?!?
The OP can (and should) discuss with the advisor at the school. Without knowing the school in question, it’s rather hard to make generalizations. But, IME, 95% of the time, the placement is “correct.” In those instances where the student should have been placed in a higher (or lower) level, it becomes apparent quickly, and adjustments are generally made.
My kiddos middle school had very limited “honors” courses ( and frankly they were not that hard). They also had a crazy grading system. Despite this, both schools s/he was serious about attending placed her/him in honors classes. Frankly, I think they based it on the test scores, teacher recommendations and possibly school reputation, etc.
Wow, you folks know just the right things to say. THANK YOU. What I have heard:
I'm not delusional. They're usually right with placement, but not always.
She may or may not belong in honors classes.
We should use our time now to learn more about the placement process. Maybe that SSAT score was not reviewed. Maybe her local school does have a poor math prep reputation. They would know, as we're local, after all.
We should talk to her advisor... I wonder when they assign advisors...
We should review her possible tracks. This one is tricky, as she really just wants to do it all. She could take a STEM track or a music track or a language track... So maybe math won't matter. And maybe it will. The time to set her up for the possibilities really is now.
#Happytimes2001 made some excellent points about the first week, the status quo, and not rocking the boat. If she starts a class, loves the teacher, connects with all the kids in the first 10 minutes... nope, not leaving that class.
She’s sent an email to the department heads. Once I see those responses, I’ll decide what to do next, if anything. Thank you so much for taking me seriously and sharing your own perspectives.
@OnToTheNext I have to say this was my favorite sentence:
Assuming that’s the procedure with the school as opposed to going through the advisor, but IDK. The point is, I’m happy to see that she’s the one driving the process; after all she’s the one going to the school.
I would talk to the registrar. When DS started BS, the school’s thought process was that they should start with the more advanced option and drop back if necessary. It’s easier to meet up with a slower train than to chase a fast one down the tracks. If mEmory serves me right, about 1/4 to 1/3 of DS’ class had dropped back by Thanksgiving. No shame in that. And the school had its schedule set up so that every level of freshman math met in the same block so that a change in class didn’t disrupt the schedule. There are a lot of kids who were standouts prior to BS, so some of the "tracking " is more subtle.
DS did not drop back, but in retrospect, would have been well served by being in a slower class. The math track he’d had in middle school wasn’t remotely comparable to what many of his foreign classmates (and many domestic too) had had, and I suspect there are still some gaps in his foundation. Your conversation with the registrar ot head of the math department should probably explore both their rationale for placement as well as how a misplacement is handled.
Ask the questions - this is what you are paying for! While your D will be able to take over so much of this on her own as part of the process, don’t worry about being "that parent " in helping her get off on the right foot. You and the school are both committed to serving her well and at this point, they have the knowledge about your school and you have it about your D!
@OnToTheNext , also wanted to mention that as your D is a day student, they may have pretty good insight into what her current school taught and how and how that fits with their curriculum. That may have influenced the decision. Of course, I thought of that after I had posted above!
I have tutored students in a K-8 “day school” that does have 3 tracks of math all the way through. Although most schools do not have tracks in middle school, students taking Algebra in 7th grade etc. tend to strong in math, and those classes tend to be hard at decent private schools and public schools in nice areas.
In general,I do not recommend honors math classes if they are a struggle. However, in this case it would probably be better to give the student a chance in those classes. To move up later would probably require studying over the summer and /or tutoring.
Honors math and science classes at good private schools are at a very high level,and they probably are effective at preparing students for top colleges. The regular classes are above the level of honors classes at many schools, and are perfectly fine even more strong STEM students.
I have two kids who did equally well in middle school math and standardized testing. My son was placed in the honors math class as a freshman and was discouraged from dropping down to a lower level. The class was a real struggle for him, and he still thinks he isn’t good at math. In hindsight, we should have insisted that the school move him down. My daughter came to prep school honors-level math sophomore year after a successful year at a public high school. She loved the smaller, tougher math class and now has confidence in her ability. Just more anecdotal evidence that it all depends on your kid, and you have to factor in personality and interests along with natural ability.
I would stay in the safe side for the freshman year. Honors classes often involves a lot more workload outside of classroom. If things turn out to be easier than you thought, it is no big deal. You can ask to move up, pick an ec, or just enjoy social activities with other students.
Mine took daily online Spanish tutoring for three years and even aced a beginning community college course before BS. Being confident, she started with Honors Spanish III in her freshman, which quickly turned out to be too hard. They were already using only Spanish in class! So she quickly moved down to Honors Spanish II, which she ended up getting a B. She could not make time required to do extra assignment and study extra materials. She lowered to regular Spanish III next year, and was very satisfied with that decision.
, as it’s HER ability they’re evaluating, not mine). She doesn’t have to work at these subjects. She “gets it” as soon as any concept is presented. She likes doing the homework, but only does it because it’s required - not to understand the material better.